Halloween 4K UHD (1978)

[chip75]

How many times do we see comments saying they're not buying the UHD if it doesn't have Atmos? they're quite common. People want their speakers and their screens filled, unfortunately. Even if it's at the expense of originality.

[KubrickKurasawa]

Originally Posted by chip75

How many times do we see comments saying they're not buying the UHD if it doesn't have Atmos? they're quite common. People want their speakers and their screens filled, unfortunately. Even if it's at the expense of originality.

I personally DON'T!

I LAUGH @ how many 7.1 and Dolby Atmos/DTS:X DISCS there are that ACTUALLY EXIST!

Then I look @ my 5.1, 4.0, 3.0, 2.0, 1.0 disc's in my Collection. 5.1 is Heaven and CRAZY VERSATILE! Sorry guys. It. Just. Is.

[Markgway]

Originally Posted by chip75

How many times do we see comments saying they're not buying the UHD if it doesn't have Atmos? they're quite common. People want their speakers and their screens filled, unfortunately. Even if it's at the expense of originality.

There are two types of collector:

1. The purist: the film fan who wants the audio and image preserved as close to the original theatrical experience as possible.

2. The home cinema enthusiast: the fan who wants every film to show off the advances in technology that have emerged since the film's production.

I'm #1. I don't give a shit about #2. But any smart distributor should take care of both.

[jess1581]

Originally Posted by Markgway

There are two types of collector:

1. The purist: the film fan who wants the audio and image preserved as close to the original theatrical experience as possible.

2. The home cinema enthusiast: the fan who wants every film to show off the advances in technology that have emerged since the film's production.

I'm #1. I don't give a shit about #2. But any smart distributor should take care of both.

Is there a third option? Those who are more on a title to title basis? For me, old films from the days before dolby digital or even dolby stereo, the western electric days I don't typically want 5.1 remixes. Just sounds forced and "like butter scraped over too much bread". I'll take dts-hd master mono 2 channel happily. Just as long as the monoraul track is restored.

On the other hand if a track is remixed and done very well, then yes I'll go for that. In a way it gives the film much like a picture restoration and remaster a fresh new life and experience for the viewer.

I'm more circumstantial.... like The Terminator remix I didn't care for due to the overdone additions that don't fit with the low budget 80's aesthetic... but I liked the remix of Batman 89 more. Purity be damned, I just go with what sounds best to my ears, and remixes don't always gel with me and neither does original mono that sounds like its coming out of a tin can.

[Markgway]

Originally Posted by jess1581

Is there a third option? Those who are more on a title to title basis?

No, you have to choose between 1 and 2.

[KubrickKurasawa]

I have no problem with 5.1 2001 A Space Odyessy 1968, Batman 1989, Halloween 1978.

Dr.Strangelove 1964 only in Mono.
Friday The 13th 1 and 2 only in Mono.

I think I prefer Akira Kurosawa's whole Catalog in 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 however each title was originally finished. Ran I do prefer the 2.0 DTS over the 5.1 DTS. He used almost all natural sounds it seems so there is no need to make a Michael Bay Sound Shocker cut LOL!

The problem is that most 5.1's will change some sound cues and people cry foul. Like this case. But I like the Lightning sounds in Halloween 78 better, just like I like the gunshots in Batman 1989 better. I like the orchestral effects in all speakers and the subwoofer for 2001 it makes it even more powerful and suspenseful.

Anyway you dice it, we need both original and updated on these discs. They're driving us all NUTS!

[MassiveMovieBuff]

Ok. So I borrowed my brother's copy of Halloween with the mono track. Just as I suspected the mono sounds MUCH better and just like I remembered on that broadcast version back in 1999-2000. Music, dialogue and overall sound effects are much clearer and more prominent. Something has definitely been "off" with the remixes ever since that initial dvd back in 1997. Can't speak for the laser discs. Now I'm VERY angry Anchor Bay didn't include it on the 35th anniversary blu ray as originally advertised.

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by MassiveMovieBuff

Ok. So I borrowed my brother's copy of Halloween with the mono track. Just as I suspected the mono sounds MUCH better and just like I remembered on that broadcast version back in 1999-2000. Music, dialogue and overall sound effects are much clearer and more prominent. Something has definitely been "off" with the remixes ever since that initial dvd back in 1997. Can't speak for the laser discs. Now I'm VERY angry Anchor Bay didn't include it on the 35th anniversary blu ray as originally advertised.

Agreed, the mono just sounds "right" -- something that's clear even from those initial classic piano notes of the opening credits. To me, it simply sounds like HALLOWEEN should sound: kinda lo-fi, the way it's always sounded, from the days of the crappy Media VHS releases in the 80's through the excellent Criterion (!!!) LaserDisc in the 90's. To be fair, the original Anchor Bay Blu-ray got the mono right, as did the boxed set's HALLOWEEN '78 disc (which I bought separately from the box, on eBay), which featured the excellent 35th Anniversary transfer AND the "real" original mono.

I've always been an audio purist and listen to the original mixes wherever possible*, but I feel John Carpenter flicks particularly benefit. Something about his scores become too rounded, modern and full when they're remixed to 5.1. I hugely prefer the clarity and "focus" of the mono (ASSAULT ON PRECINCT 13, HALLOWEEN) or stereo (ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK, PRINCE OF DARKNESS, THEY LIVE) when it comes to his dated, grindhouse style of score.

*In most cases. I didn't list THE FOG, 'cuz I think the original mono (which IS included on the disc) is a mess: pops and clicks and volume all over the place. I also didn't list THE THING, 'cuz I listen to the original 4.0 on that sucker. Still original to its theatrical release, but multi-channel. And that one has an Ennio Morricone score, not Carpenter, but the same thinking applies.

Anyhoo.... Original mixes forevah! (in most cases)

[MassiveMovieBuff]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

Agreed, the mono just sounds "right" -- something that's clear even from those initial classic piano notes of the opening credits. It's sounds like HALLOWEEN should sound, to me: kinda lo-fi, the way it's always sounded, from the days of the crappy Media VHS releases in the 80's through the excellent Criterion (!!!) LaserDisc in the 90's. To be fair, the original Anchor Bay Blu-ray got the mono right, as did the boxed set's HALLOWEEN '78 disc (which I bought separately from the box, on eBay), which featured the excellent 35th Anniversary transfer AND the "real" original mono.

I've always been an audio purist and listen to the original mixes wherever possible*, but I feel John Carpenter flicks particularly benefit. Something about his scores become too rounded, modern and full when they're remixed to 5.1. I hugely prefer the clarity and "focus" of the mono (ASSAULT ON PRECINCT 13, HALLOWEEN) or stereo (ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK, PRINCE OF DARKNESS, THEY LIVE) when it comes to his dated, grindhouse style of score.

*In most cases. I didn't list THE FOG, 'cuz I think the original mono (which IS included on the disc) is a mess: pops and clicks and volume all over the place. I also didn't list THE THING, 'cuz I listen to the original 4.0 on that sucker. Still original to it's theatrical release, but multi-channel. And that one has an Ennio Morricone score, not Carpenter, but the same thinking applies.

Anyhoo.... Original mixes forevah! (in most cases)

Yeah. I mean, you could even hear the leaves blowing on the ground clearly on the mono. I debated on getting that initial boxset for the extended TV cut for Halloween (my preferred cut) and this mono track but I just couldn't justify it price wise especially now that I triple dipped on Halloween 2 with the steel book and double dipped for the German Halloween 4. Not to mention already having double dipped Halloween '78.

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by MassiveMovieBuff

Yeah. I mean, you could even hear the leaves blowing on the ground clearly on the mono. I debated on getting that initial boxset for the extended TV cut for Halloween (my preferred cut) and this mono track but I just couldn't justify it price wise especially now that I triple dipped on Halloween 2 with the steel book and double dipped for the German Halloween 4. Not to mention already having double dipped Halloween '78.

I was extremely lucky to find the boxed set's disc of HALLOWEEN '78 on eBay, 'cuz I wasn't about to shell out for that sucker, either. Now it's one of my prized discs, since HALLOWEEN is in my personal Top Five faves of all time. Oh, and I just re-watched that new steel of HALLOWEEN II a couple days ago -- with original stereo, of course. That's a sweeeet disc.

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by MassiveMovieBuff

Ok. So I borrowed my brother's copy of Halloween with the mono track. Just as I suspected the mono sounds MUCH better

No it's not. It's just MUCH louder.

You know, the reason I bought the Spanish BD and provided those caps is your kind of subjective fake news. It went like this:

x: The mono is MUCH better!
me: Is it possible that it's just louder? Did you adjust the levels?
x: No, it's clearly not just louder, it's much better.
me: Can you provide some samples? [the person usually does and actually did re. the German dub]
x: No.

[I made a harmless (!) snarky remark re. the German dub (I can't stand dubs) in between, which wasn't completely innocent re. that response, but the "No." still was just a piss poor reaction]

But I wanted to know, bought the Spanish BD, checked and it's exactly what I thought and the mono is basically just MUCH louder (you just need to look at the wave graph to see that it's MUCH louder). I think it's actually unusually loud by today's standards (the 7.1 might be on the other side of the spectrum). Use the volume knob and increase/adjust the volume and the MUCH better is gone. I provided the samples (both original and normalized) and never heard back from him again.

It's the same bullshit that's going on re. supposedly "MUCH better" audio tracks since forever when it's really just increased volume, which people perceive as better (as they perceive increased contrast as sharper). Plus the fact that lots of people are ignorant towards facts.

Maybe it really is slightly better and it should've been on the disc for sure, but it's not MUCH better and you're not missing anything substantial if you adjust the volume.

I'll got back to re. the subject now.

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

No it's not. It's just MUCH louder.

You know, the reason I bought the Spanish BD and provided those caps is your kind of subjective fake news. It went like this:

x: The mono is MUCH better!
me: Is it possible that it's just louder? Did you adjust the levels?
x: No, it's clearly not just louder, it's much better.
me: Can you provide some samples? [the person usually does and actually did re. the German dub]
x: No. [I made a harmless (!) snarky remark re. the German dub (I can't stand dubs) in between, which wasn't completely innocent re. that response, but the "No." still was just a piss poor reaction]

But I wanted to know, bought the Spanish BD, checked and it's exactly what I thought and the mono is basically just MUCH louder (you just need to look at the wave graph to see that it's MUCH louder). I think it's actually unusually loud by today's standards (the 7.1 might be on the other side of the spectrum). Use the volume knob and increase/adjust the volume and the MUCH better is gone. I provided the samples (both original and normalized) and never heard back from him again.

It's the same bullshit that's going on re. supposedly "MUCH better" audio tracks since forever when it's really just increased volume, which people perceive as better (as they perceive increased contrast as sharper). Plus the fact that lots of people are ignorant towards facts.

Maybe it really is slightly better and it should've been on the disc for sure, but it's not MUCH better and you're not missing anything substantial if you adjust the volume.

Orrrrr maybe "better" when it comes to sound is a subjective thing, and there are genuinely those of us who think the mono sounds more like HALLOWEEN ought to sound: a little bit lo-fi, a little bit edgy and a little bit low budget. And mayyyybe we're smart enough to know it's not just "louder" we're reacting to. For me, it's all about the perceived soundstage, particularly when it comes to the trademark Carpenter scores. The mono reflects that great indie sound from the 70's, when the pic was made... and I dig it. The moment those first piano notes hit, I can tell whether it's the "real" HALLOWEEN sound or a remix. Same with ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK and ASSAULT ON PRECINCT 13, for that matter. And it ain't just the volume. Some of us simply have a different opinion about this; an opinion that's just as valid as yours.

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

Orrrrr maybe "better" when it comes to sound is a subjective thing, and there are genuinely those of us who think the mono sounds more like HALLOWEEN ought to sound: a little bit lo-fi, a little bit edgy and a little bit low budget. And mayyyybe we're smart enough to know it's not just "louder" we're reacting to. For me, it's all about the perceived soundstage, particularly when it comes to the trademark Carpenter scores. The mono reflects that great indie sound from the 70's, when the pic was made... and I dig it. The moment those first piano notes hit, I can tell whether it's the "real" HALLOWEEN sound or a remix. Same with ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK and ASSAULT ON PRECINCT 13, for that matter. And it ain't just the volume. Some of us simply have a different opinion about this; an opinion that's just as valid as yours.

Opinions won't help people who don't know the mono and who are more interested in the objective difference between the two tracks.

I know those are rare, but I'm not the only one.

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

Opinions won't help people who don't know the mono and who are more interested in the objective difference between the two tracks.

I know those are rare, but I'm not the only one.

It's all about the perceived soundstage, for me; the "width" of the audio, if you will. The multi-channel remixes, to my ears, add a kind of echo-chamber effect to the music and dialogue. Ever had one of your friends in a garage band try to record a demo? Usually, there's too much reverb; too much "production" to the vocals and instruments. I feel the same way about the Carpenter remixes. The music becomes too processed, too "worked on". There's a rawness to the mono, along with an obvious focus to the soundstage that I simply associate more with an edgy li'l indie like HALLOWEEN... or ASSAULT ON PRECINCT 13... or ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK (which was stereo). Does that make some sense, even if you don't personally agree that it's "better"?

EDIT: And after reading the post BELOW this one by MassiveMovieBuff, I agree that the remix itself is just... different, in terms of how volume levels of dialogue compare with foley or score or effects, etc. The RELATIONSHIP of one track of sound to another has literally been altered... "remixed", like the word says. And this isn't a function of how loud or soft the overall volume is. And you either like it better or you don't... but it IS different.

[MassiveMovieBuff]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

Maybe it really is slightly better and it should've been on the disc for sure, but it's not MUCH better and you're not missing anything substantial if you adjust the volume.

Well, tomato/tomato. Just for the heck of it though, I went ahead and tried your theory and even by turning the volume up on the 7.1 to try and make it match the mono it just wasn't happening. The mono track is clearly better (oooo that word again lol) than the 7.1. Sound effects come out naturally on the mono vs the 7.1 where they still don't come out as good as the mono with the volume raised.

Unfortunately, since not many folks own this disc most won't be able to compare for themselves so it's kind of a double edged sword by having to trust online members who are able to compare them. Of course some might still prefer the remixes but that's where opinions come into play. The difference between the mono and 7.1 is SUBSTANTIAL.

[Filmmaker]

Originally Posted by KubrickKurasawa

they re-did the Lightning audio

Originally Posted by KubrickKurasawa

But I like the Lightning sounds

[TXMoviebuff77]

Originally Posted by Filmmaker

Science *****!

[KubrickKurasawa]

Do you guys buy vintage Horn drivers? Run it with Tube amps?



If not yeah you guys just like lo-fi sound coming from your tvs speakers.

No one posts their gear but claims to be experts

This is my center/mono. It's 150 usd and nothing to special or oldschool about it. Competent real wood and affordable. Only put 75 watts to it, but those old horns could fill a 500-750 theatre with 50 watts



Star Wars brought the 4 speaker mono if I've read right. Before that Mono was the way of the theaters. Then 5.1 with T2/Jurassic Park etc.
Atmos for Comic Book Marvel movies/Ninja Turtles/Bayformers/Dunkirk/Nolan etc. and whatever else gets Atmos.

What do you experts use of Mono mixes use?

[ROSS.T.G.]

Nolan and Atmos eh?

[KubrickKurasawa]

Originally Posted by Filmmaker

Yeah not to clear. The lightning for my 5.1 sounds scarier coming through all 5 speakers and a subwoofer for the cracking thunder boom low end.

I never listened to it with 1 speaker and even then it would be coming from the front and be less loud unless I had a huge horn speaker. Ecuse me who here does btw??

I prefer lightning in 5.1 or higher just like Carpenter and everyone that was blown away with star wars 4 speaker use or early surround, but you dont need atmos u just need all corners of a room to have well designed sounds, and a solid center and subwoofer. smh here LOL