Spears & Munsil 4K UHD HDR Benchmark (Test Discs) May 15, 2023

[Geoff D]

Someone mentioned that before re: DV over USB directly into the Sony TV itself, how can that work if it's not being pre-processed first?? Or is it because DV via HDMI is a data bottleneck for the interaction of the HDMI chip and decoding silicon, so the processing has to be done upstream?

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Someone mentioned that before re: DV over USB directly into the Sony TV itself, how can that work if it's not being pre-processed first?? Or is it because DV via HDMI is a data bottleneck for the interaction of the HDMI chip and decoding silicon, so the processing has to be done upstream?

Exactly! Must be an HDMI in limitation on pulling the metadata out of the image fast enough to process vs. USB where its not in the image.

About to PM you with a test image to play on the OPPO and Panasonic. It fracking works! The LG went into the proper modes.

[Geoff D]

I'm about to head offline so PM away before I log off!!

[monroef]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

For Blu-ray, the HEVC decoding happens in the player. As does conversion from 4:2:0 to at least 4:2:2. For USB, those both happen in the display. And pretty much every display does the wrong upsample for 2020, they apply 709. (not color conversion, chroma upsample) This will result in a half pixel shift between luma and chroma. I believe LG fixed this in 2019, not sure if anyone else has.

For Dolby Vision, if you have Sony, the tone mapping is done in the display for Dolby Vision over USB, but done in the player because it is in Low Latency mode. For LG, both can be done in the display.

There may be other paths they take as well, difficult to know for sure.

Like I said in another thread, I have the 2nd Edition disc as an ISO to use on my Apple TV. I wanted to try calibration through the Apple TV since most of my TV viewing is through that device. Running through the Apple TV, there is clipping compared to running through my blu-ray. I could never figure out if the clipping is due to a problem with the Apple TV or if the clipping is due to the video playing software I am using to play the ISO. I ran the same ISO through my Fire TV 4k and I am still seeing clipping. I plan to test this with the new benchmark CD soon.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'm about to head offline so PM away before I log off!!

sent

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by monroef

Like I said in another thread, I have the 2nd Edition disc as an ISO to use on my Apple TV. I wanted to try calibration through the Apple TV since most of my TV viewing is through that device. Running through the Apple TV, there is clipping compared to running through my blu-ray. I could never figure out if the clipping is due to a problem with the Apple TV or if the clipping is due to the video playing software I am using to play the ISO. I ran the same ISO through my Fire TV 4k and I am still seeing clipping. I plan to test this with the new benchmark CD soon.

It is possible that both are clipping everything above 235. What color space are you outputting? RGB or YCbCr? Is there an option called SuperWhite?

[monroef]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

It is possible that both are clipping everything above 235. What color space are you outputting? RGB or YCbCr? Is there an option called SuperWhite?

I tried through RGB High, RGB Low and YcbCR. That was one of the reason I wanted to do this. I wanted measure which performed the best. But they are all clipping. You can see it on the brightness test where you never get the two left bars. You can also see it on the contrast test where you never get the center dot in the color squares. You also do not get any dot in the squares in the color space evaluation test.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by monroef

I tried through RGB High, RGB Low and YcbCR. That was one of the reason I wanted to do this. I wanted measure which performed the best. But they are all clipping. You can see it on the brightness test where you never get the two left bars. You can also see it on the contrast test where you never get the center dot in the color squares. You also do not get any dot in the squares in the color space evaluation test.

Do you get concentric boxes on the clipping pattern for red, green and blue? White should be clipped given what you have described.

Are you going through any AVR between Apple TV and display? Which display?

[monroef]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Do you get concentric boxes on the clipping pattern for red, green and blue? White should be clipped given what you have described.

Are you going through any AVR between Apple TV and display? Which display?

When using the Apple TV the only two boxes that have concentric boxes are the black and if you really look hard, the blue box. The rest are solid. I have an AVR. But it is not between the Apple TV and the display. The Apple TV is connected directly to the display. My display as a 2016 Samsung KS9800 65".

[Scorsese]

Ordered, will arrive tomorrow

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by monroef

When using the Apple TV the only two boxes that have concentric boxes are the black and if you really look hard, the blue box. The rest are solid. I have an AVR. But it is not between the Apple TV and the display. The Apple TV is connected directly to the display. My display as a 2016 Samsung KS9800 65".

Have you actually confirmed these are not clipped from a BD player into the display? Just to eliminate the Apple TV as the source?

[monroef]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Have you actually confirmed these are not clipped from a BD player into the display? Just to eliminate the Apple TV as the source?

Yes. When I run the tests through a blu-ray player, the AVR, I can see the two left bars on the brightness test as well as the concentric boxes on the clipping test.

[p5browne]

Originally Posted by Scorsese

Ordered, will arrive tomorrow

Mine is still somewhere in our great Canadian postal system.
Won't be watching this, this weekend!

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by monroef

Yes. When I run the tests through a blu-ray player, the AVR, I can see the two left bars on the brightness test as well as the concentric boxes on the clipping test.

I wonder if it is the Apple TV or the app itself that is clipping head and toe room.

[monroef]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

I wonder if it is the Apple TV or the app itself that is clipping head and toe room.

That was my thought as well. Unfortunately, I do not know of any other app that will launch a blu-ray menu.

[Gord Lacey]

Originally Posted by p5browne

Mine is still somewhere in our great Canadian postal system.
Won't be watching this, this weekend!

Hopefully early next week, Peter!

I really wish Canada Post offered a way to track packages that didn't cost a ton of money.

[p5browne]

Originally Posted by Gord Lacey

Hopefully early next week, Peter!

I really wish Canada Post offered a way to track packages that didn't cost a ton of money.

Thanks for the encouragement. Maybe my missing Orangy Soap will arrive with it at the same time. Hopefully, with this heat, not melted together!
Just saw the news posting 90 F in Alaska! Oh my gosh, what is that going to do to the permafrost?
Has Donald Trump changed his mind on climate change yet?

With this heat, I will stay indoors this weekend and watch BDs!

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I dare say you need to double check the Panny, and it's not just me who noticed it as Vincent Teoh picked up on it as well, it's clipping the upper end of highlight information in DV and it should be spectacularly obvious with all that heavy nittage going on in your montage, chapter 2 should show it in all its glory. When I first mentioned this DV clipping problem in the 820 thread https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...g#post15961702 Kris Deering also thought it might be the Optimiser but it is literally disabled when playing DV, as is all post-processing picture enhancement on the Panny, it's all greyed out.

I noticed that I could pull the contrast down on the ZD9 to bring back the clipping on chapter 2 in DV (unlike the Panny which appears to be clipping at source, adjusting the TV's contrast made no difference) but the problem is that DV luminance is already measurably below what my properly calibrated HDR10 setting is putting out, i.e. I don't want to reduce the luminance in DV any further! The contrast settings are not the same between the various picture modes. This is why I'm jonesing for some DV 0-100% greyscale window patterns so I can measure them for their light output on the ZD9.


I see, thanks.

You can't increase the backlight setting to bring the luminance back?

[Geoff D]

No, because it's already set to maximum when displaying HDR content as per SOP on Sony TVs.

[thatguy1985]

For anyone that's tested this with projection, is it worth picking up? I have a JVC DLA-550R...not exactly known to be the best with HDR - better for BT2020 (SDR converted via Oppo-203). Is this still worth picking up to dial things in?

Thanks