improving on stereo sound for music

[romavictor]

Hey guys,

I have a dilemma here, got a denon 3808 and I'm quite happy with it for watching movies and music sounds good too but I'm simply itching to improve on the stereo sound quality for music listening pleasure though. I use Paradigm studio 40's as my mains. I was thinking of selling the denon and purchasing the Rotel rsx 1550. That way both my movies and music fidelity will increase or at least i hope so. But some guy at magnolia was telling me that all I need is a good stereo amp and to just use the denon as a pre out for the 2 main speakers.

does anyone have any ideas? I'm trying to keep things cost effective. Thanks.

[liquidice]

the key here is you've already said your quite happy about your 3808 for movies and music, just looking to improve. So without putting out a ton of cash for a new receiver when you have a great one, go for an amp for at least your mains, and then go from there. You can even get an Emotiva UPA-2 125w x2 channels for 269.00. I would think that is a great place to start. That is just one amp out of many, you'd have to do your reading, and more importantly your listening to see what would work best for you.

[Danger Boy]

adding an external power amp to your Denon will improve things for you.. usually quite a bit too. It takes the stress off the amps and power supply in your receiver. IF you like the Denon, i would recommend adding even just a two channel amp for your front main speakers.

It's also pretty common for AVR's are not that good when it comes to music. That's one reason people often have a separate 2ch music only stereo. I do and I know it can really make a big difference in how much you will enjoy music.

If your Denon has a button where it sends a pure signal and bypassing the video, try that or even an upsampling might help too.. but try an amp for your fronts first.

good luck. it's a problem that bugged me too for many years.. till I finally realized even adding an amp to my home theater, my 2 ch music rig could run circles around my home theater which is much more expensive.

[romavictor]

Originally Posted by liquidice

the key here is you've already said your quite happy about your 3808 for movies and music, just looking to improve. So without putting out a ton of cash for a new receiver when you have a great one, go for an amp for at least your mains, and then go from there. You can even get an Emotiva UPA-2 125w x2 channels for 269.00. I would think that is a great place to start. That is just one amp out of many, you'd have to do your reading, and more importantly your listening to see what would work best for you.

Do you know which part of the audio component has got to do more with sound fidelity, warmth, musicality, dynamism and naturalness? is it the processing or amplification?

[romavictor]

Originally Posted by Danger Boy

adding an external power amp to your Denon will improve things for you.. usually quite a bit too. It takes the stress off the amps and power supply in your receiver. IF you like the Denon, i would recommend adding even just a two channel amp for your front main speakers.

It's also pretty common for AVR's are not that good when it comes to music. That's one reason people often have a separate 2ch music only stereo. I do and I know it can really make a big difference in how much you will enjoy music.

If your Denon has a button where it sends a pure signal and bypassing the video, try that or even an upsampling might help too.. but try and amp for your fronts first.

good luck. it's a problem that bugged me too for many years.. till I finally realized even adding an amp to my home theater, my 2 ch music rig could run circles around my home theater which is much more expensive.

my denon 3808 does have a pure direct mode button, is that what you're talking about? Okay lets say I got my ipod that has CD quality WAV files on it docked to my wadia 170i transport that is connected to my denon via digital coax ok? and I have my denon pre-outs for my main speakers to a separate 2 channel amp. And let's say I'm using pure direct mode. Which of these components will determine the quality of the sound? the denon or the stereo amp?

[Danger Boy]

Originally Posted by romavictor

Do you know which part of the audio component has got to do more with sound fidelity, warmth, musicality, dynamism and naturalness? is it the processing or amplification?

It all begins with the source... there is a saying that goes.. garbage in, garbage out.. it's true.. if your CD player for instance isn't all that good.. then as it goes to your receiver and to your speakers.. it's going to sound, well like garbage.

BUt if you're happy with things like your CD player and other components, then you would of course look at other things in your system.

Fidelity, warmth, musicality, dynamism and naturalness are what we all strive for in our music systems... its' not really all that important when it comes to home theater, because we don't do as much critical listening while watching a DVD movie as we do with music we like and enjoy listening to.

The answer to your question though is that all parts of a receiver, amp, etc play a part in how much fidelity, warmth, musicality, etc you hear in the end.
That's why people like to take things up a notch by going with separates over an all in one receiver.

[romavictor]

Originally Posted by Danger Boy

It all begins with the source... there is a say that goes.. garbage in, garbage out.. it's true.. if your CD player for instance isn't all that good.. then as it does to your receiver and to your speakers.. it's going to sound, well like garbage.

BUt if you're happy with things like your CD player and other components, then you would of course look at other things in your system.

Fidelity, warmth, musicality, dynamism and naturalness are what we all strive for in our music systems... its' not really all that important when it comes to home theater, because we don't do as much critical listening while watching a DVD movie as we do with music we like and enjoy listening to.

The answer to your question though is that all parts of a receiver, amp, etc play a part in how much fidelity, warmth, musicality, etc you hear in the end.
That's why people like to take things up a notch by going with separates over an all in one receiver.

do you have any recommendation of a sweet stereo amp? My space is limited so therefore I need something that's basically not gigantic and hopefully not run as hot. I'm thinking of stacking my denon on top of the stereo amp with of course a fan blowing constantly while in use. I do that already just with the denon by itself. thanks for all your inputs.

[Danger Boy]

Originally Posted by romavictor

my denon 3808 does have a pure direct mode button, is that what you're talking about? Okay lets say I got my ipod that has CD quality WAV files on it docked to my wadia 170i transport that is connected to my denon via digital coax ok? and I have my denon pre-outs for my main speakers to a separate 2 channel amp. And let's say I'm using pure direct mode. Which of these components will determine the quality of the sound? the denon or the stereo amp?

the amp will just amplify the signal it gets from your receiver's pre outs, so the denon will determine the quality of the sound the most.. each component in a system will add it's own coloring to the music.

Do me a favor.. play a song from your Ipod, then if you have the same song on a CD, pop it into your Wadia transport and play it.. tell me which one has the better dynamics? Which one has the better soundstage? I'm betting your Wadia with a CD in it. Point being, try to keep things as pure as possible. I know, i know.. IPods are great for portability and ease of having a lot of music with you without having the burden of CD's these days. I get it.

and yes the pure direct mode is what I am talking about. It usually either turns off or bypasses the video portion of your receiver.. which can add unwanted noise (although minor) into your audio.

[romavictor]

Originally Posted by Danger Boy

the amp will just amplify the signal it gets from your receiver's pre outs, so the denon will determine the quality of the sound the most.. each component in a system will add it's own coloring to the music.

Do me a favor.. play a song from your Ipod, then if you have the same song on a CD, pop it into your Wadia transport and play it.. tell me which one has the better dynamics? Which one has the better soundstage? I'm betting your Wadia with a CD in it. Point being, try to keep things as pure as possible. I know, i know.. IPods are great for portability and ease of having a lot of music with you without having the burden of CD's these days. I get it.

and yes the pure direct mode is what I am talking about. It usually either turns off or bypasses the video portion of your receiver.. which can add unwanted noise (although minor) into your audio.

Actually the Wadia transport is not a CD player, it's an IPOD docking device which I use to retrieve the high resolution CD quality audio that's on my IPOD. They are all either WAV or AIFF 48/44khz and 16 bit files. But I do have the PS3 and the Pioneer bdp 51 fd bluray player which I can use to play my cd's.

[Danger Boy]

Originally Posted by romavictor

do you have any recommendation of a sweet stereo amp? My space is limited so therefore I need something that's basically not gigantic and hopefully not run as hot. I'm thinking of stacking my denon on top of the stereo amp with of course a fan blowing constantly while in use. I do that already just with the denon by itself. thanks for all your inputs.

There are so many amps to choose from... but if I were you.. look into buying a used one... best bang for your buck. Amps don't get outdated as quickly as pre amps and receivers do.

Looks from amps from brands like NAD, Rotel, Adcom, B&K, Outlaw Audio, Pioneer, Carver. And if you can get one that's 150wpc and above, the better off your speakers and music will sound. 200wpc and your speakers will love you for it.

[romavictor]

what do you guys think about this amp?

http://emotiva.com/upa2.shtm

[Danger Boy]

Originally Posted by romavictor

Actually the Wadia transport is not a CD player, it's an IPOD docking device which I use to retrieve the high resolution CD quality audio that's on my IPOD. They are all either WAV or AIFF 48/44khz and 16 bit files. But I do have the PS3 and the Pioneer bdp 51 fd bluray player which I can use to play my cd's.

ok cool.. your PS3 and Pioneer BDP are both good for playing CD's with good results.

[romavictor]

Originally Posted by Danger Boy

There are so many amps to choose from... but if I were you.. look into buying a used one... best bang for your buck. Amps don't get outdated as quickly as pre amps and receivers do.

Looks from amps from brands like NAD, Rotel, Adcom, B&K, Outlaw Audio, Pioneer, Carver. And if you can get one that's 150wpc and above, the better off your speakers and music will sound. 200wpc and your speakers will love you for it.

I have the Paradigm studio 40's for my main speakers. You sure they wont blow if I use anything greater than 150wpc?

[romavictor]

which rotel stereo amp will you recommend?

[Danger Boy]

Originally Posted by romavictor

what do you guys think about this amp?

http://emotiva.com/upa2.shtm

that would be a good amp for your front speakers... and emo I think lets you try it out for 30 days.

[romavictor]

this are the specs for my speakers

http://paradigm.com/en/reference/spe...-2-13.paradigm

[Danger Boy]

Current model Rotel amps are very nice. but they tend to be on the large cumbersome side..

if you can still find the Rotel RB-991 used power amplifier it's 200wpc and on the smaller side too. I think they run on Ebay for about $460

[Danger Boy]

Originally Posted by romavictor

I have the Paradigm studio 40's for my main speakers. You sure they wont blow if I use anything greater than 150wpc?

no they won't blow.. unless you crank it and the amp distorts.. but at 200wpc it'll open up your speakers like you've never heard before.

believe it or not, but by under powering your speakers can actually do more damage to them then having enough power from a high powered amp. An external amp will give you what's called "headroom". Headroom is the extra current and power the amp can put out when needed. If you reach the limits on your receiver or amp because say it's only 100wpc, and doesn't have enough headroom for those loud explosions in movies, the it'll start to tax the amp in your receiver causing distortion and that's a bad thing.

[Danger Boy]

Originally Posted by romavictor

this are the specs for my speakers

http://paradigm.com/en/reference/spe...-2-13.paradigm

those are some really beautiful speakers.. congrats. Even though your speakers recommend between 15 and 180wpc from an amp.. a 200 wpc amp isn't putting out 200wpc all the time.. it just has the capability of delivering that much if needed.

[romavictor]

Originally Posted by Danger Boy

those are some really beautiful speakers.. congrats. Even though your speakers recommend between 15 and 180wpc from an amp.. a 200 wpc amp isn't putting out 200wpc all the time.. it just has the capability of delivering that much if needed.

sounds great! i'm really excited now. dont know which amp to get though. would it better to stack the denon above the amp or vice versa. I dont have much space left.