8K discussion thread

[jibucha]

information?

• LG :: 4K dislpalys (2019) - OLED & Nano Cell
• they are HDMI 2.1
• they are 48/gps
• therefore :: at any point in time; 'they can' support 'any' of the HDMI 2.1 features
• LG :: 8K (displays) :: 'it should be expected that their (2019) 8K displays - will also - support HDMI 2.1
• am i surprised? :: yes, as this is 'commonly available information'
• remember? :: CES 2019

Originally Posted by sapiendut

AFAIK, the HDMI 2.1 on any of the current TVs are not of the 48 gbps variety as reportedly there is no such chipset yet.

[Robert Zohn]

LG and Sony tell me their 8K TVs SoC are 48Gbps capable.

[sapiendut]

It doesn’t matter whether there is any content or not. If the chip can handle the full 48 gbps bandwidth, any changes can be done via firmware upgrade. If the bandwidth is not even there, you will eventually need to change your hardware.

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

LG and Sony tell me their 8K TVs SoC are 48Gbps capable.

I’m not sure about that. Yes they claim to be so but I know for a fact (from various cable manufacturers and testing facilities including DPL Labs) that all the test that can be done this far is theoretical-based. They can only check using eye pattern and nothing more (yet) as the 48 gbps HDMI 2.1 chip does not exist yet. The last time I received this info was 3 weeks ago.

[Robert Zohn]

My understanding is that LG makes their own HDMI 2.1 Chipset, which explains why we're not seeing them on other TVs. Sony has a priority method that gives them one full 48Gbps HDMI 2.1 input on the Z9G series.

At our 2019 TV Shootout we actually had Sony's Z9G on display with a native 8K 60fps server and content. The images were stunning and unlike anything we have ever seen before.

[sapiendut]

That’s really strange (regarding their claim) as HDMI Organization itself doesn’t have any methodology to verify the full compliance of 48 gbps HDMI chipset. It doesn’t mean it can’t be done, I just can’t imagine how would any company can claim that their chip is 100% compliant when the compliance office (so to speak) doesn’t have a way to check the compliance yet (other than theoretical bandwidth check).

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Other than Samsung who has an easy upgrade path to HDMI 2.1 with the One Connect box, who forgot to included HDMI 2.1 on their 8K TVs?

It's not Sony, LG or Sharp.

I am just quoting the article, if the article is correct it must be some lower cost non name brand 8K displays. I remember when the first generation 4K Ultra HD displays were offered in retail stores, and for 2-3 years they were sold to consumers without HDCP 2.2 technology, therefore consumers had no way of getting a 4K Ultra HD signal into the display. Second generation 4K displays in general most of the time offered HDCP 2.2.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

My understanding is that LG makes their own HDMI 2.1 Chipset, which explains why we're not seeing them on other TVs. Sony has a priority method that gives them one full 48Gbps HDMI 2.1 input on the Z9G series.

At our 2019 TV Shootout we actually had Sony's Z9G on display with a native 8K 60fps server and content. The images were stunning and unlike anything we have ever seen before.

And there were stunning images on 4k servers. However, real world content is often never as good as demo clips that are short and carefully encoded and mastered to highlight the format and/or particular strengths of a certain TV brand.



Just like this ballyhoo with ATSC 3.0. Do you really believe it will look amazing? Do you really think the majority of broadcasters will embrace 4k and high frame rates? Immersive audio?



Again, the reality will be like what we have now... minimal effort with heavy compression, smudginess, and artifacting. They'll mostly use it to push advertising DURING the programming as that is a new feature.


We're not Japan and most U.S. broadcasters are not like NHK.

[sapiendut]

Just like 8K Tvs sold today, because the full spec chip hasn’t been finalized, the early 4K TVs couldn’t do HDCP2.2 and only maxed out at 10.2 gbps (essentially HDMI 1.4 chip with 4K/24 capability added).

This will be the same all over again with the current 8K TVs regardless of brand. None of the TVs can do HFR which is already an official spec of 2.1

[sapiendut]

Just like 8K Tvs sold today, because the full spec chip hasn’t been finalized, the early 4K TVs couldn’t do HDCP2.2 and only maxed out at 10.2 gbps (essentially HDMI 1.4 chip with 4K/24 capability added).

This will be the same all over again with the current 8K TVs regardless of brand. None of the TVs can do HFR which is already an official spec of 2.1

[Robert Zohn]

@FilmFreakosaurus, thanks and all very true. However, my company has sold and installed four 85" and one 98" Sony Z9Gs and they perform beautifully with cable and of course 4K HDR streaming and BD.

The manufacturers have employed the latest state-of-the-art display and processing technologies to deliver the best possible picture performance in every attribute.

I attend NAB NY and Las Vegas every year for the past 30+ years and am a strong proponent encouraging broadcasters to embrace ATSC 3.0 with 4K HDR content delivery. I agree that it's not likely to happen, but we will see broadcasters delivering FHD/HDR OTT and OTA over the next year.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

@FilmFreakosaurus, thanks and all very true. However, my company has sold and installed four 85" and one 98" Sony Z9Gs and they perform beautifully with cable and of course 4K HDR streaming and BD.

The manufacturers have employed the latest state-of-the-art display and processing technologies to deliver the best possible picture performance in every attribute.

I attend NAB NY and Las Vegas every year for the past 30+ years and am a strong proponent encouraging broadcasters to embrace ATSC 3.0 with 4K HDR content delivery. I agree that it's not likely to happen, but we will see broadcasters delivering FHD/HDR OTT and OTA over the next year.

Truly, I hope you're correct.

[Blu350z]

CBS uses 8K cameras for the NFL/ Super Bowl earlier this year, Tokyo 2020 will be broadcasted in 8k and Sony and Microsoft have consoles coming out next year that can get up to 8K quality and we have computers pushing higher resolutions up to 8K.

If broadcasters in the US would just stop being lazy we can actually enjoy content from time to time but from what i’ve seen so far from the Q900 I’m pretty impressed with the quality of upscaling.

[Robert Zohn]

Also all ^ true and good points. One item about broadcasters converting to 4K is the costs are very high. They would need to swap out all of the cameras, switching and processing equipment and systems.

One more item to consider with Sony's 8K Z9G is it's 4,000 Nit peak luminance capability. No tone mapping HDR content that is graded up to 4,000 Nits and no loss of color volume.

I very strongly suggest for anyone who truly wants to see how these new 8K TV perform is to see them for yourself. I have done that for many hours with varied content and can tell you this is a big upgrade from the best 4K TVs.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Also all ^ true and good points. One item about broadcasters converting to 4K is the costs are very high. They would need to swap out all of the cameras, switching and processing equipment and systems.

One more item to consider with Sony's 8K Z9G is it's 4,000 Nit peak luminance capability. No tone mapping HDR content that is graded up to 4,000 Nits and no loss of color volume.

I very strongly suggest for anyone who truly wants to see how these new 8K TV perform is to see them for yourself. I have done that for many hours with varied content and can tell you this is a big upgrade from the best 4K TVs.

Why don't they use this tech on 4k TV's like was promised in the first place in order to take advantage of closer to Rec 2020 color performance, better contrast, better mid-tone blacks, and excellent specular highlight reproduction? All with true 12 bit or 14 bit processing.



Are the manufacturers so gung-ho on selling the consumer on double the K's instead? Oh look... it has 8k rather than 4k on the box! It must be better.


At some point they're going to push too hard and too fast with these format changes, and sales will drop off a cliff.

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by Blu350z

CBS uses 8K cameras for the NFL/ Super Bowl earlier this year, Tokyo 2020 will be broadcasted in 8k and Sony and Microsoft have consoles coming out next year that can get up to 8K quality and we have computers pushing higher resolutions up to 8K.

If broadcasters in the US would just stop being lazy we can actually enjoy content from time to time but from what i’ve seen so far from the Q900 I’m pretty impressed with the quality of upscaling.

Why do you think 8K will make a difference on 55 inch screen?

This stuff is getting silly. The next thing will be 16K.

[Robert Zohn]

@FilmFreakosaurus, if you are referring to the 4,000 Nits peak luminance Sony has several reasons why they are not employing these advanced technologies on the current 4K TVs.

1st when I spoke with Sony I strongly urged them to make the 8K the very best it could be so the high-end consumer market will have compelling reasons to buy a 8K TV.

2nd is the cost and power consumption, it takes a lot of power to light-up 33 million pixels on a 85" and larger display with high luminance.

So it's not practical for the main stream or even the high-end 4K TV market.

For the 8K TVs the manufacturers wanted to pull out all of the stops and deliver an exceptional picture quality that would wow the most discerning enthusiasts.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

@FilmFreakosaurus, thanks and all very true. However, my company has sold and installed four 85" and one 98" Sony Z9Gs and they perform beautifully with cable and of course 4K HDR streaming and BD.

Beautifully enough for you to own one?

[DJR662]

Actual physical media for motion picture content, gentlemen, that's the main thing here. IMO everything else is secondary.

Will there be 8K UHD? Chances are, probably not. So I wonder, where does this leave the true importance and significance of 8K then?

[Robert Zohn]

@Vilya, yes once we can get enough we'll have one on display in our showroom and one for my family room at home!

@DJR662, 4K HDR looks stunning on any of the new 8K TVs and is a vey nice upgrade from any of the 4K TVs. 8K becomes most important on the larger screen sizes, 85"+.