DTS HD-Master Audio 2.0/Dolby Pro Logic?

[crowe-t]

I have an older Denon Receiver that can only decode the compressed Dolby Digital 5.1, DTS 5.1 and Dolby Pro Logic Surround.

Do the Blu-Ray discs that have DTS HD-Master Audio 2.0 also have a Dolby track?

V: The Original Miniseries is coming out in Blu-Ray at the end of August and it has DTS HD-Master Audio 2.0.

Will it also contain a Dolby 2.0 track that can be decoded in Pro Logic Surround?

[steve_dave]

Originally Posted by crowe-t

I have an older Denon Receiver that can only decode the compressed Dolby Digital 5.1, DTS 5.1 and Dolby Pro Logic Surround.

Do the Blu-Ray discs that have DTS HD-Master Audio 2.0 also have a Dolby track?

V: The Original Miniseries is coming out in Blu-Ray at the end of August and it has DTS HD-Master Audio 2.0.

Will it also contain a Dolby 2.0 track that can be decoded in Pro Logic Surround?

Warner only includes the DTS-HD MA 2.0 track, it does have a DTS 2.0 core.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by steve_dave

Warner only includes the DTS-HD MA 2.0 track, it does have a DTS 2.0 core.

Right, it should default to DTS 2.0 on older receivers.

[crowe-t]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Right, it should default to DTS 2.0 on older receivers.

How will my receiver decode DTS 2.0?

Will it decode it using Dolby Pro Logic?

The V The Original Miniseries Blu-Ray has a surround mix on the 2.0. It was Dolby Surround on the old DVD version.

[notops]

Originally Posted by crowe-t

How will my receiver decode DTS 2.0?

Will it decode it using Dolby Pro Logic?

The V The Original Miniseries Blu-Ray has a surround mix on the 2.0. It was Dolby Surround on the old DVD version.

Dolby Pro Logic will decode it perfectly. It will play the DTS 2.0 core and have the exact same audio sent to the surround speakers as the Dolby Surround encode had. Play back with confidence

[crowe-t]

Thanks everyone for the help with this.

[Jompa]

Originally Posted by notops

Dolby Pro Logic will decode it perfectly. It will play the DTS 2.0 core and have the exact same audio sent to the surround speakers as the Dolby Surround encode had. Play back with confidence

Correct

[NLScavenger]

Shouldn't those older receivers also accept PCM 2.0? If that's the case here it's better to have the player convert DTS-HD MA 2.0 into PCM 2.0.

[AllOuttaBubbleGum]

Originally Posted by NLScavenger

Shouldn't those older receivers also accept PCM 2.0? If that's the case here it's better to have the player convert DTS-HD MA 2.0 into PCM 2.0.

Is this because, even with just a 2 channel track, bit-streaming the DTS core or DD embed would limit the audio to the bitrate caps inherent in those lossly formats...whereas PCM would allow all the lossless data through?


..

[steve_dave]

Originally Posted by NLScavenger

Shouldn't those older receivers also accept PCM 2.0? If that's the case here it's better to have the player convert DTS-HD MA 2.0 into PCM 2.0.

Its entirely up to the end user. In most cases though, its best to just let the receiver accept the DTS 2.0 core which would have the necessary information for proper Pro-Logic decoding. A player might decode it as straight stereo only and then re-encode as PCM 2.0 stereo.

As for bit rate: the DTS core would be 1.5mbs which would not change when decoded to PCM.

[crowe-t]

Originally Posted by steve_dave

Its entirely up to the end user. In most cases though, its best to just let the receiver accept the DTS 2.0 core which would have the necessary information for proper Pro-Logic decoding. A player might decode it as straight stereo only and then re-encode as PCM 2.0 stereo.

As for bit rate: the DTS core would be 1.5mbs which would not change when decoded to PCM.

So if I sent PCM out of the player the bit rate will be the same as the DTS core?

[WaltWiz1901]

Originally Posted by notops

Dolby Pro Logic will decode it perfectly. It will play the DTS 2.0 core and have the exact same audio sent to the surround speakers as the Dolby Surround encode had. Play back with confidence

As far as I know, DTS tracks (both lossy and lossless Master Audio) don't have matrix surround flags embedded into the lossy/lossless bitstream or the core. How would the information sent to the center and surround channels be identical to the center and surround information embedded into a matrixed Dolby Surround soundtrack if the DTS-HD track doesn't have any surround flags? Have you compared a DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 track played back in Dolby Pro Logic to the Dolby Surround-encoded DVD counterpart to confirm your claim?

[notops]

Originally Posted by WaltWiz1901

As far as I know, DTS tracks (both lossy and lossless Master Audio) don't have matrix surround flags embedded into the lossy/lossless bitstream or the core. How would the information sent to the center and surround channels be identical to the center and surround information embedded into a matrixed Dolby Surround soundtrack if the DTS-HD track doesn't have any surround flags? Have you compared a DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 track played back in Dolby Pro Logic to the Dolby Surround-encoded DVD counterpart to confirm your claim?

It doesn't have to be flagged. It basically works the same way analog Dolby Stereo tracks work on a 35mm film print. Audio signals that are 'out of phase' automatically get sent to the surround channel, exactly as the mixers intended. DTS is nothing more than another delivery system for the already matrix-mixed LCRS tracks. If you have Dolby Pro Logic, 2.0 stereo tracks for movies should never just be played on only two speakers.

[steve_dave]

Originally Posted by crowe-t

So if I sent PCM out of the player the bit rate will be the same as the DTS core?

For most titles yes, there are the odd ones with cores under 1.5mbs but I haven’t encountered any Warner titles like this.

[eddievanhalen]

On the Alien 40th Anniversary UHD BD the original Theatrical Mix on 2.0 is flagged as DTS Neo X. It should have been flagged as Dolby ProLogic 'though.

[NLScavenger]

Originally Posted by AllOuttaBubbleGum

Is this because, even with just a 2 channel track, bit-streaming the DTS core or DD embed would limit the audio to the bitrate caps inherent in those lossly formats...whereas PCM would allow all the lossless data through?

Yes. With DTS-HD/TrueHD 2.0 tracks, there's no point in sending out the lossy cores via S/PDIF since the receiver has to decode them into PCM anyway. Might as well let the player do the PCM decoding from DTS-HD/TrueHD.

Originally Posted by steve_dave

Its entirely up to the end user. In most cases though, its best to just let the receiver accept the DTS 2.0 core which would have the necessary information for proper Pro-Logic decoding. A player might decode it as straight stereo only and then re-encode as PCM 2.0 stereo.

As for bit rate: the DTS core would be 1.5mbs which would not change when decoded to PCM.

As notops said, the tracks don't have to be DPL-flagged. Letting the player decode DTS-HD MA 2.0 into PCM 2.0 should not affect the receivers ability to decode into DPL (unless the out-of-phase signals are affected, which is very unlikely).

[crowe-t]

I finally got my V: The Original Miniseries Blu-Ray and played it today through my Denon Receiver.

As I said in my first post my Denon Receiver can only decode the compressed Dolby Digital 5.1, DTS 5.1 and Dolby Pro Logic Surround, not any of the newer uncompressed formats.

My receiver only played the DTS HD-Master Audio 2.0 as 2 channels with the DTS bitstream. Dolby Pro Logic did not decode it.

I went into the (Sony) 4K/Blu-Ray player's setup and changed the audio output to PCM and my receiver was able to decode the PCM in Dolby Pro Logic as surround. This worked.

I guess I'll have to do this every time I watch this Blu-Ray to hear the surround and then go back in to the player's setup and change the audio output back to Auto after I watch it so my receiver with get the bitstream for my other discs.

Does this sound right or is there something else I can or should do?

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by crowe-t

I finally got my V: The Original Miniseries Blu-Ray and played it today through my Denon Receiver.

As I said in my first post my Denon Receiver can only decode the compressed Dolby Digital 5.1, DTS 5.1 and Dolby Pro Logic Surround, not any of the newer uncompressed formats.

My receiver only played the DTS HD-Master Audio 2.0 as 2 channels with the DTS bitstream. Dolby Pro Logic did not decode it.

I went into the (Sony) 4K/Blu-Ray player's setup and changed the audio output to PCM and my receiver was able to decode the PCM in Dolby Pro Logic as surround. This worked.

I guess I'll have to do this every time I watch this Blu-Ray to hear the surround and then go back in to the player's setup and change the audio output back to Auto after I watch it so my receiver with get the bitstream for my other discs.

Does this sound right or is there something else I can or should do?

It sounds right to me. It's just a pain to change this on your player each time you watch something that is encoded in DTS-HD MA 2.0.