Dark Force Entertainment Discussion Thread

[miribeau]

Originally Posted by cloudnine

Bill would rather be a cry baby than make money.

Bringing it back to the real issue here, if he sues this company for infringement, there are no damages to be collected, unless harm has been done. Simple infringement results in a stay, in that country, possibly a small fine, paid to the government in that country. They could sell the discs in Spain, regardless of the results of any German case. If they set up a shell corp and dummy label in Spain, they could even sell while the case was proceeding. They could also sell the bulk stock/title to Resen, cutting the entire case off at the knees, as they just sold unusable work product but never sold to customers.

Meanwhile, Bill has stated he isn't selling it on Blu or Digital HD, which means he doesn't have a competing product, which means there is no harm to his business. Even if he had a DVD out right now, the competing product must be comparable. This is Germany, not France, so they would not see it as comparable. A stay is a possibility, absolutely, but damages are not, given Bill's own recorded/broadcast-online/written statements that he will never sell a competing product.

So he's going to pay a lawyer thousands of dollars to get a piece of paper and force this other label to sell in Spain....

I say, again and again, I adore Bill and Walt and David, even when he's acting crazy. I adore Ryan, even when he puts out a film about a fishing competition. I adore all the little labels with their oddities and quirks, Mondo and Severin and Synapse, and you know I love the Morowitz family, because they're wonderful. I love label owners. I love what they do for all of us and for the industry at large. We need more of them, not less.

That said, the concern isn't that Bill is being a cry baby, but, rather, that he'll be left crying after shelling out thousands more on a film he's officially done with. My concern is for Bill.

[babybreese]

With MirrorBall on Sype sitting in offering inane ridiculous suggestions,
and telling people how they think and feel.

BREEDERS is an upscale, no?

[kraven]

My concern is that the windows are rolled up and I see burrito wrappers on her floorboards!

[wicky_J]

Originally Posted by babybreese

BREEDERS is an upscale, no?

It absolutely is.

[rowdyryancombs]

I want to preface my comment by saying I of course know nothing about the costs of rights to movies but why on earth would a movie like BBNM cost $47,000 before costs to do clean up work and transfers? If it did cost that much how is that ever worth that?

Blurays from most companies are selling for $20 before sale price (lets say no slipcover), if it costs lets say $3-$4 each to make a bluray disk shrink wrapped that would be $4,500 to $6,000 for 1500 units.

Even if Code Red directly sold all 1500 copies themselves, at $20 each through their website with no middle man, that only leaves a gross of $30,000. Take away the cost to print the blus that leaves $25,500 to $24,000 left on your $47,000 investment. This also doesnt include money spent to hire any other work needed, or clean up "lab costs" or whatever it costs to do the HD upgrades.

And a movie like BBNM is obscure where I wouldn't imagine more than 3-5k total units would sell in its lifetime in the first place.

[bruce holecheck]

Originally Posted by diverdave

A quick google search shows you can get 1,000 25GB discs pressed with case for $2.10 each plus 10 cents each for shrink wrap.

https://www.quickturnduplication.com...nd-duplication

Heck you can even do 100 retail ready for $435.

Those prices are for duplication, not replication. They're burns.

[frakking toaster]

Originally Posted by CODE RED DVD

pressing plant will demand 1000+ blu. According to my noted I pressed 1,500. blu. it was a painful task to sell off 1500. Last batch, diabolik sold it cheap and many people didn't buy it, as the last batch was ignored and died in a painful sluggish sales. now its all gone,

savage streets took me 9 month to sell 1,000 blu. many didnt get it, so another 1000 was pressed. that 2nd batch took a year to sell out. then more people said they didnt buy it. Ronin wanted sell a deluxe version. that version didnt sell out and still for sale.

I like get my money back, $47,000.00 is price I spend to buy BBNM. thst fee doesnt include lab fee

“I spent a lot of money to license this title and it sold really well. People really want to buy it so I’ll give 5 copies at a time to DF to sell for $50. I don’t want to repress it cause then people will be able to buy it. Oh no OTHER LABEL selling bootleg. They need to stop cause then who will buy my copies that I’m not repressing.”

Easy solution. Repress it with a slipcover and give it to Roninflix. Also fix the audio.

[Placid_Man]

Originally Posted by bruce holecheck

Those prices are for duplication, not replication. They're burns.

Came to post the same thing:

duplication = bd-r
replication = pressed disc

Replication isn't that much more $ but you can't do small runs. 1000 seems to be the minimum

[SilentNight]

I'm curious with all this talk about repressing costs.....why not just sell the rights to another label for any title you don't want to mess with or repress? I'm sure you could get a decent amount out of some of these.

[Jlouisbarrett]

Originally Posted by rowdyryancombs

I want to preface my comment by saying I of course know nothing about the costs of rights to movies but why on earth would a movie like BBNM cost $47,000 before costs to do clean up work and transfers? If it did cost that much how is that ever worth that?

Blurays from most companies are selling for $20 before sale price (lets say no slipcover), if it costs lets say $3-$4 each to make a bluray disk shrink wrapped that would be $4,500 to $6,000 for 1500 units.

Even if Code Red directly sold all 1500 copies themselves, at $20 each through their website with no middle man, that only leaves a gross of $30,000. Take away the cost to print the blus that leaves $25,500 to $24,000 left on your $47,000 investment. This also doesnt include money spent to hire any other work needed, or clean up "lab costs" or whatever it costs to do the HD upgrades.

And a movie like BBNM is obscure where I wouldn't imagine more than 3-5k total units would sell in its lifetime in the first place.

There’s no sense in trying to make sense of any of Bill’s numbers, tbh.

[miribeau]

Originally Posted by rowdyryancombs

I want to preface my comment by saying I of course know nothing about the costs of rights to movies but why on earth would a movie like BBNM cost $47,000 before costs to do clean up work and transfers? If it did cost that much how is that ever worth that?

Blurays from most companies are selling for $20 before sale price (lets say no slipcover), if it costs lets say $3-$4 each to make a bluray disk shrink wrapped that would be $4,500 to $6,000 for 1500 units.

Even if Code Red directly sold all 1500 copies themselves, at $20 each through their website with no middle man, that only leaves a gross of $30,000. Take away the cost to print the blus that leaves $25,500 to $24,000 left on your $47,000 investment. This also doesnt include money spent to hire any other work needed, or clean up "lab costs" or whatever it costs to do the HD upgrades.

And a movie like BBNM is obscure where I wouldn't imagine more than 3-5k total units would sell in its lifetime in the first place.

And, then, only if it is being pressed and sold. It can't sell 5,000 copies if they only make 1,500. Although, after a few years, those 1,500 could resell enough times to hit a few thousand. The issue of BBNM makes my head hurt.

[miribeau]

David posted that he's at Fotokem with the mystery-title 35mm negative, in hand. He said he's announcing the title soon, after he's handed it off presumably, so that's good news, for whoever loves whatever movie it is. I can't really be excited about a mystery film I might end up hating, as previously discussed, on the VS forum. It just doesn't work for me. I need a title or a list of cool people, to be all happy about a release.

Remember when VS posted that lame side shot of their mystery titles, but one of them really did look a lot like sand? So everybody was guessing "Lust in the Dust", all over the place, for days, and we all knew it was "Lust in the Dust", because they would have said if it wasn't. That got me happy. Very very happy. I love that movie so much. That slip faces out. It probably always will.

So, back to Dark Force, what the heck is on this 35mm David's dropping off at Fotokem? Am I going to like it? Who is in it? Anybody I love? Is Mark Damon in it? He's not, is he.... He's not. That's too much to hope for. Is it a pristine, uncut "Mill of the Stone Women"? Is it? No? You sure? Well that sucks....

[cloudnine]

Does anyone believe Bill really paid $47,000+ for Butcher Baker. He'd have to sell more than 12,000 copies at $40 each to break even. No way he paid $100,000 for The Farmer either nor does he owe the IRS that amount to sell it. Maybe it will cost him $100,000 for the music clearance rights for it. He doesn't, nor ever did have this type of money.

[DaveyJoe]

Yeah, they're all just made up numbers.

[ProfondoRosso]

Regarding the secret title DF has hinted at, when it was mentioned during one of the live streams Bill started in on how it was “one of the biggest movies of nineteen sevent-“ before being quickly hushed by Dave. That did arouse my curiosity. Bill is a fountain of random movie knowledge and I assume he was referring to the film’s box office. We also know the director is involved (so alive) which helps narrow it down to a hundred or so possibilities. I can’t imagine them releasing a major 70s title, but maybe I’ll be surprised.

[CODE RED DVD]

Originally Posted by cloudnine

Does anyone believe Bill really paid $47,000+ for Butcher Baker. He'd have to sell more than 12,000 copies at $40 each to break even. No way he paid $100,000 for The Farmer either nor does he owe the IRS that amount to sell it. Maybe it will cost him $100,000 for the music clearance rights for it. He doesn't, nor ever did have this type of money.

I can show you bank of american withdraw....

big money is nothing to lie about.

[cloudnine]

If you paid $47,000 for BBNM, you made an insanely bad deal by your own free will (though I'm glad you released it on DVD and bluray which I bought).
I did the math wrong, you'd need to sell 2000 copies at $25 each just to recoup the cost of the film, not counting your production expenses.

[ProfondoRosso]

Originally Posted by cloudnine

Does anyone believe Bill really paid $47,000+ for Butcher Baker. He'd have to sell more than 12,000 copies at $40 each to break even. No way he paid $100,000 for The Farmer either nor does he owe the IRS that amount to sell it. Maybe it will cost him $100,000 for the music clearance rights for it. He doesn't, nor ever did have this type of money.

You think he’d have to make almost half a million to break even? I don’t think the investment plus replication/packaging is that steep.

[cloudnine]

Originally Posted by ProfondoRosso

You think he’d have to make almost half a million to break even? I don’t think the investment plus replication/packaging is that steep.

My mistake, I added an extra zero (see above comment).

[Dark Force]

Originally Posted by cloudnine

If you paid $47,000 for BBNM, you made an insanely bad deal by your own free will (though I'm glad you released it on DVD and bluray which I bought).
I did the math wrong, you'd need to sell 2000 copies at $25 each just to recoup the cost of the film, not counting your production expenses.

You have no clue what you'r talking about cloudnine cause you don't know this business other than collecting the titles. I can tell you this, it's not a cheap business to be in and the top labels make a lot of money otherwise I wouldn't be in this business. Just like any business there is no way to fully understand and know it unless you are actually in it. I thought I knew it by watching Bill for years before actually starting Dark Force. Boy was I wrong. Was amazed at how much I didn't know and I come from a big film production and distribution background.