Fantasia (1940) (The Signature Collection) - TBA

[shinobipopcorn]

Originally Posted by TylerDurden389

Guess we know what their next live-action adaptation should be,

It just had one...?

[Class316]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Lots of random thoughts here for me..using phone keyboard. Forgive blunt text.

Fantasia is a hard sell. Always has been. What was novel in 1940 (stereo and a sort of surround sound) is common in homes today. Imagination and visual ideas inspired by music -- also common today. Even with the novelty, the biggest stumbling block Fantasia could never overcome was the use of classical music. I can't answer that, I love all forms of music, music is the heartbeat rhythm of humanity. But for whatever reason (class issues probably landing at number one) symphonic classical music intimidates people -- "I'm supposed to like this stuff or else I'll look uncultured". Fantasia pissed off cultural elitists, while at the same time, intimidated (maybe even alienated) Disney's general audience.

Personally I always loved and enjoyed classical music in cartoons. Tom and Jerry, Loony Tunes, etc is/was my introduction to classical music. Never understood why classical music fans hate the concept. Without these cartoons I would not be "cultured" with classical music. So they opened up doors for me which would have never been open in any shape or form. Don't like the concept of classic music in cartoons? Don't watch. Much like "offensive" stereotypes in cartoons, don't like it, don't watch.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Class316

Personally I always loved and enjoyed classical music in cartoons. Tom and Jerry, Loony Tunes, etc is/was my introduction to classical music. Never understood why classical music fans hate the concept. Without these cartoons I would not be "cultured" with classical music. So they opened up doors for me which would have never been open in any shape or form. Don't like the concept of classic music in cartoons? Don't watch. Much like "offensive" stereotypes in cartoons, don't like it, don't watch.

In 1940, Stokowski's arrangements were controversial as he altered the scores. It was considered revisionist and to be fair, they were revisionist. That didn't sit well with music critics. Think of film fans today who are upset about changes or mistakes made to, say, 2001: A Space Odyssey or The Little Mermaid. Same thing.

EDIT

But I hear you -- cartoons (especially Warner Bros. cartoons) were how my generation got introduced to Wagner ("Kill da wabbit!"), Rossini (Rabbit of Seville), even Stokowski ("Leopold! Leopold!"). This is why Stokowski wanted to do Fantasia in the first place -- introducing symphonic music to a wide mass audience.

[Class316]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

In 1940, Stokowski's arrangements were controversial as he altered the scores. It was considered revisionist and to be fair, they were revisionist. That didn't sit well with music critics. Think of film fans today who are upset about changes or mistakes made to, say, 2001: A Space Odyssey or The Little Mermaid. Same thing.

EDIT

But I hear you -- cartoons (especially Warner Bros. cartoons) were how my generation got introduced to Wagner ("Kill da wabbit!"), Rossini (Rabbit of Seville), even Stokowski ("Leopold! Leopold!"). This is why Stokowski wanted to do Fantasia in the first place -- introducing symphonic music to a wide mass audience.

Ok, so he altered scores for Fantasia. But again, so what? Not like the tunes in their original form did not exist. It's like Bladerunner Final Cut. It's been altered compared to the theatrical versions, but those still exist on blu.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Class316

Ok, so he altered scores for Fantasia. But again, so what? Not like the tunes in their original form did not exist. It's like Bladerunner Final Cut. It's been altered compared to the theatrical versions, but those still exist on blu.

Well, think about where music critics were coming from -- the scores are altered, re-arranged, embellished...I get it. Music critics (and maybe not wrongly) considered it a kind of vulagarization of the music, and the visual accompaniment an imposition, seizing the imagination from a wide open territory to a very specific visual landscape. They weren't necessarily wrong -- I love Stravinsky, still can't listen to the "Rite of Spring" without thinking of primordial earth and earthquakes and dinosaurs, or "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" without Mickey and the brooms, and who listens to "Ride of the Valkyries" without thinking about Bugs Bunny and Elmer, or attack helicopters in Apocalypse Now. They had a point. Cinema can use music to inspire imagination, but it's also true cinema can be so indelible as to seize and own the imagination.

Ride of the Valkyries - Apocalypse Now (3/8) Movie CLIP (1979) HD - YouTube

2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) - 'The Blue Danube' (waltz) scene [1080p] - YouTube

Fantasia Irwin Kostal Soundtrack (1982) The Sorrcerer's Apprentice - YouTube

[Falaskan]

Day 1!

[shinobipopcorn]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Fantasia Irwin Kostal Soundtrack (1982) The Sorrcerer's Apprentice - YouTube

Is that supposed to sound like it's echoing? I've never heard the Kostal versions before.

[Ned Brainard]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Well, think about where music critics were coming from -- the scores are altered, re-arranged, embellished...I get it. Music critics (and maybe not wrongly) considered it a kind of vulagarization of the music, and the visual accompaniment an imposition, seizing the imagination from a wide open territory to a very specific visual landscape. They weren't necessarily wrong -- I love Stravinsky, still can't listen to the "Rite of Spring" without thinking of primordial earth and earthquakes and dinosaurs, or "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" without Mickey and the brooms, and who listens to "Ride of the Valkyries" without thinking about Bugs Bunny and Elmer, or attack helicopters in Apocalypse Now. They had a point. Cinema can use music to inspire imagination, but it's also true cinema can be so indelible as to seize and own the imagination.

For me, I have a hard time listening to Bizet's Carmen music without thinking of Hamlet and Gilligan's Island.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by shinobipopcorn

Is that supposed to sound like it's echoing? I've never heard the Kostal versions before.

No, it's pristine. Maybe you accidentally double-clicked and opened two windows? Dunno.

EDIT

There's certainly more of a sense of spatial depth and "room tone" in the Kostal version, if that's what you're talking about. The Kostal version, for all its sonic ear candy, dialed back the embellishments in the Stokowski version...the most obvious being the removal of the drum crash at the end of "Dance of the Hours". I get why Kostal wanted to be more respectful of the original scores, but Fantasia is what it is, might as well go full out. For whatever reason, the Kostal score is without doubt more "safe" than Stokowski's revisionism. Kostal took advantage of digital fidelity and modern recording, then dialed back Stokowski's eccentric embellishments (and the hard stereo and surround pans). A definite trade-off, I just think fans of the film should be able to experience it, even if only on streaming as a bonus feature.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Ned Brainard

For me, I have a hard time listening to Bizet's Carmen music without thinking of Hamlet and Gilligan's Island.

Could be worse...there's the ending of John Derek's Bolero, set to the famous music. Won't elaborate. What has been seen cannot be unseen.

[Dan_Shane]

Originally Posted by Ned Brainard

For me, I have a hard time listening to Bizet's Carmen music without thinking of Hamlet and Gilligan's Island.

The most inspired piece of writing from one of TV's silliest shows.

[shinobipopcorn]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

No, it's pristine. Maybe you accidentally double-clicked and opened two windows? Dunno.

EDIT

There's certainly more of a sense of spatial depth and "room tone" in the Kostal version, if that's what you're talking about. The Kostal version, for all its sonic ear candy, dialed back the embellishments in the Stokowski version...the most obvious being the removal of the drum crash at the end of "Dance of the Hours". I get why Kostal wanted to be more respectful of the original scores, but Fantasia is what it is, might as well go full out. For whatever reason, the Kostal score is without doubt more "safe" than Stokowski's revisionism. Kostal took advantage of digital fidelity and modern recording, then dialed back Stokowski's eccentric embellishments (and the hard stereo and surround pans). A definite trade-off, I just think fans of the film should be able to experience it, even if only on streaming as a bonus feature.

Yeah, maybe "echo" wasn't the right word. It sounds like when you stick the speaker in a box to focus it more towards you. I guess roomy is more descriptive.

[shinobipopcorn]

Sorry in advance to the people who think my bump is news of a release.

So I bought what I thought was a run of the mill Fantasia soundtrack on vinyl, and what do you know it turns out to be the Kostal version. Since I have most of the other version on vinyl from the Disneyland records (I'm missing Rite of Spring, Toccata, and Sorcerer), I can do my own little comparison. I just want to know if this is where the version heard in the video came from.

[moviebuff75]

A continuity script for the 1942 release has been found, and even though the film was cut, it includes Taylor narration not in the 1940 roadshow version. I wonder if Disney has access to that version.

[maniac89]

Even if Fantasia and Fantasia 2000 don’t get the Signature Collection treatment, are they still coming to Blu-ray and Digital HD somehow?

[BenjaminG]

Originally Posted by maniac89

Even if Fantasia and Fantasia 2000 don’t get the Signature Collection treatment, are they still coming to Blu-ray and Digital HD somehow?

Not quite what you're asking, but Fantasia will be on Disney+ on launch day.

[Farerb]

Originally Posted by maniac89

Even if Fantasia and Fantasia 2000 don’t get the Signature Collection treatment, are they still coming to Blu-ray and Digital HD somehow?

Disney will want the film back into circulation. I still think it might be a part of the Signature Collection, but Disney might choose not to include it. It will get a release nonetheless.

[maniac89]

Originally Posted by farerb

Disney will want the film back into circulation. I still think it might be a part of the Signature Collection, but Disney might choose not to include it. It will get a release nonetheless.

Whether or not Disney includes it in the Signature Collection, when do you approximate Fantasia and Fantasia 2000 will come out on Blu-ray and Digital HD?

[Farerb]

December 2020 at the latest, could be before, could even be this year because of Disney +.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by farerb

December 2020 at the latest, could be before, could even be this year because of Disney +.

I'm worried that they won't take the opportunity to bring the original Fantasia to 4K, like they didn't for the other Walt-era Signature Collection Editions.