Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[The_Donster]

Yep, it isn’t our first rodeo is it

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

Yep, it isn’t our first rodeo is it

Hopefully our resident...



can still find us.

[Night*Wolf]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I do not trust the studios and digital providers with my content. They can delete, alter, or censor it at any time with no warning and no recourse. While full deletions are rather rare, we have seen entire ebook libraries get deleted and the same can happen with any type of digital content; the terms of service allow for it and that is not by accident.

Alterations and censoring occur more frequently and I can not tolerate that, either. I can not agree to such blatantly unfair terms just for the convenience and possible economy that digital offers.

When I buy something it must be in my possession and under my absolute control. I am not buying something and entrusting it with the seller; why anyone would still strikes me as naive especially as the precedent for removing, altering, and censoring digital content has already happened.

I agree 100% that I don't like people altering/censoring my content without my permission, but I eventually will download my entire collection to a hard drive so I will have the unaltered version as well if there are any changes.

There are upsides for digital changes though, my titles being upgraded to 4K for free is second to none

I believe in 10 years there will be few physical sales, most sales are now done digitally which are more profitable, the market for physical sales has already been showing decline. There will be hard copies, but I don't believe the demand will be there like it once was.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Night*Wolf

I agree 100% that I don't like people altering/censoring my content without my permission, but I eventually will download my entire collection to a hard drive so I will have the unaltered version as well if there are any changes.

There are upsides for digital changes though, my titles being upgraded to 4K for free is second to none

I believe in 10 years there will be few physical sales, most sales are now done digitally which are more profitable, the market for physical sales has already been showing decline. There will be hard copies, but I don't believe the demand will be there like it once was.

It appears you need to read your digital TOS/EULA, just because a title is on a HDD or SSD means nothing, it is still 100% DRM controlled.

Once again you need to do a little research, physical still outsells EST which does not bode well EST considering the number of devices that can play EST titles.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Night*Wolf

I agree 100% that I don't like people altering/censoring my content without my permission, but I eventually will download my entire collection to a hard drive so I will have the unaltered version as well if there are any changes.

There are upsides for digital changes though, my titles being upgraded to 4K for free is second to none

I believe in 10 years there will be few physical sales, most sales are now done digitally which are more profitable, the market for physical sales has already been showing decline. There will be hard copies, but I don't believe the demand will be there like it once was.

Actually, physical discs still outsell digital. As of the end of the second quarter of 2019, discs comprised 55.87% of all purchases; $1.53865 billion vs. $1.21521 billion. Digital will likely overtake physical at some point, but that has not happened yet.

https://www.degonline.org/portfolio_...inment-report/

^Digital purchases are called "EST" or "electronic sell thru."

Digital downloads are still highly compressed, often more so than even their streamed counterpart and viewing them requires proprietary software from the digital provider to view and it is full of DRM. No thanks; it is in much lower quality than a disc and it does not give any meaningful control over the content when you have to use their software to view the file and contend with their DRM. If these downloads were like those of a MP3 or other music file type that allowed them to be downloaded to any device and the ability to play them with any software of my choice, that would be a different matter, but that is not what you get with digital movies.

I don't care if a digital file is upgraded to an all encompassing hologram, I'm still not interested in buying something that I do not really own and that can be deleted or modified at will. Potentially disappearing content, in part or in whole, is not a bargain even when free.

Disc sales will likely become more of a niche market and that is fine with me. Many niche markets thrive; I have never cared what the great unwashed masses prefer, so long as my preference remains. And I believe it will.

Purchases in general, physical or digital, are losing their appeal as most people are flocking to low cost, all you can eat, buffet style subscription streaming services. Bargain and convenience minded consumers will be more than satisfied with their $7 per month Disney+ streaming service; these won't see much reason to buy anything.

[cpr3584]

The modification of content on digital services is what is most worrisome to me. I don't worry so much about movies being removed (even though they reserve the right to do so) because of the consumer backlash that would soon follow. There is a long list of titles that would never be made today in this PC climate and I wouldn't put it past some studios to edit them on digital.
Blazing Saddles
Slap Shot
Superbad
Caddyshack
Angels in the Outfield
Animal House
The Jerk
Sixteen Candles
Teen Wolf

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

It appears you need to read your digital TOS/EULA, just because a title is on a HDD or SSD means nothing, it is still 100% DRM controlled.

Once again you need to do a little research, physical still outsells EST which does not bode well EST considering the number of devices that can play EST titles.

EST has basically failed at this point.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

EST has basically failed at this point.

How can you say that a format has failed to catch on when that format can be viewed upon every modern device, accessed from almost anywhere, is affordable, AND it saw awe inspiring growth of 3.3% despite having all that going for it? With all of these attributes, it should see robust growth like SVOD does, but instead it does little more than tread water. Nothing shows enthusiastic endorsement of a format like anemic and barely measurable single digit growth!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

How can you say that a format has failed to catch on when that format can be viewed upon every modern device AND it saw awe inspiring growth of 3.3% after the first half of 2019! Nothing shows enthusiastic endorsement of a relatively new format like anemic single digit growth.

It was always going to fail. It’s stuck in the middle of quality lovers and convenience lovers. True film fans want the best for their hobby. Not some compression riddled crap fest. .

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It was always going to fail. It’s stuck in the middle of quality lovers and convenience lovers. True film fans want the best for their hobby. Not some compression riddled crap fest. .

..and seasoned with lots of delicious DRM should you try and download any of it.

[rui no onna]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Digital downloads are still highly compressed, often more so than even their streamed counterpart and viewing them requires proprietary software from the digital provider to view and it is full of DRM. No thanks; it is in much lower quality than a disc and it does not give any meaningful control over the content when you have to use their software to view the file and contend with their DRM. If these downloads were like those of a MP3 or other music file type that allowed them to be downloaded to any device and the ability to play them with any software of my choice, that would be a different matter, but that is not what you get with digital movies.

This is my primary gripe with digital video. Music doesn't come with DRM anymore and it's possible to remove DRM from ebooks. Too bad movie studios still insist on DRM.

Hence, for movies I actually want to own, I buy physical, rip the disc and store on my server/NAS. I also redeem digital copies. Saves me having to encode my 1:1 rips to something mobile friendly. For everything else, there's Netflix.

Frankly, DRM just punishes folks who pay for content. The pirates all just have DRM-free copies.

[michaelhazin]

Originally Posted by cpr3584

The modification of content on digital services is what is most worrisome to me. I don't worry so much about movies being removed (even though they reserve the right to do so) because of the consumer backlash that would soon follow. There is a long list of titles that would never be made today in this PC climate and I wouldn't put it past some studios to edit them on digital.
Blazing Saddles
Slap Shot
Superbad
Caddyshack
Angels in the Outfield
Animal House
The Jerk
Sixteen Candles
Teen Wolf

Wait the 90s Angels in the Outfield? What’s controversial in that movie? Honest question here no sarcasm intended. I love that movie to death. Is there something I’m blind to?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

..and seasoned with lots of delicious DRM should you try and download any of it.

Too true.

[cpr3584]

Originally Posted by michaelhazin

Wait the 90s Angels in the Outfield? What’s controversial in that movie? Honest question here no sarcasm intended. I love that movie to death. Is there something I’m blind to?

There is no way Disney produces a faith-based movie like this today. "Breakthrough" is technically Disney now after the Fox merger, however.

"Strong biblical worldview with positive depiction of angels as helpers commissioned by God in answer to prayer"

Does that sound like the gender-switching, star-wars-killing, serial remakers of Disney today?

If Angels was ever remade by Disney they would probably make it so it includes all other major religions as well.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by cpr3584

There is no way Disney produces a faith-based movie like this today. "Breakthrough" is technically Disney now after the Fox merger, however.

"Strong biblical worldview with positive depiction of angels as helpers commissioned by God in answer to prayer"

Does that sound like the gender-switching, star-wars-killing, serial remakers of Disney today?

If Angels was ever remade by Disney they would probably make it so it includes all other major religions as well.

Too true. Even modern stuff they produce on their new streaming service will be edited and censored on the fly depending on word of mouth in social media.

[Steedeel]

Good of the mod to switch things back. Appreciated.

[fatboy1111]

Physical forever ✊

[overmang5]

Mainly Physical.

If I like and want the movie enough to buy it, I'll buy a physical copy. I'll still redeem the digital code if it has one and enjoy the convenience of it however.

Have not yet bought a digital only version of a movie. I am however considering maybe buying a digital version of movies I already own in physical format if the price is right.

[Boccaccio]

Originally Posted by JPK

I have been doing a fair bit of thinking about this recently, so I'm going to regurgitate my thoughts here and hopefully get some other opinions/find some more justification for the track i'm heading down.

1. Storage space. For physical media buffs and cinephiles, displaying and storing your collection coherently has to be considered. I'm currently maxed out at just over 1200 Blu Rays with a custom storage cupboard. After this point, its garage storage or boxes.

I am starting to think i'm probably served better by partly culling my collection and only replacing essential films on Blu Ray with 4K when they come out. There will be a few that come out each year I need space for and the obligatory Arrow or Criterion (etc) release that needs a physical copy.

2. Non-essential 4K. There is plenty of movies worth watching that come out each year that are not always worth owning and/or don't have particularly big soundtracks that require the absolute best source to enjoy.
Apple TV now offers Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos on many of their recent releases - albeit with compression, offer HD for many films that haven't got to Blu Ray yet and 4K of movies that haven't had a physical 4K release yet.

Mindless accumulation of physical copies of films that gather dust and will never be watched more than once doesn't seem like the best way forward.


As a caveat, I get the whole idea about 'supporting the format', but tbh i'm unsure many of the studios (Sony excluded) are really supporting us. We pay a premium in many cases for the same soundtrack and the same master that was on the Blu Ray and keep getting fed near field or 'atmouse' mixes by Disney.

Furthermore, I probably also need to add that I have a fairly high end system that I have spent a lot of time and money building, therefore I can tell the difference between poor/compressed sources and good sources.

Mindless accumulation ? You make it sound like it's something you 're not interested in. I love movies and it's my main hobby so it really doesn't feel like mindless to me.
If I buy a movie then I know it's mine and it will be there forever unless I sell it. Even if I only watch the movie again in 10 years I know it will still be there.
I don't need to make a profit out of it and it doesn't feel like I'm losing money on it either. It's my collection and it represents what I like so I don't mind spending money on it.


As for space, I'm still good for about 2 or 3 years so I'll tackle that problem when it presents itself. I rarely blind buy movies and if I do they have to be cheap.
When I don't like them I just give them away or throw them out. No need for them to take up space. I only keep what I really like.

[Akibiyori]

Originally Posted by cpr3584

There is no way Disney produces a faith-based movie like this today. "Breakthrough" is technically Disney now after the Fox merger, however.

"Strong biblical worldview with positive depiction of angels as helpers commissioned by God in answer to prayer"

Does that sound like the gender-switching, star-wars-killing, serial remakers of Disney today?

If Angels was ever remade by Disney they would probably make it so it includes all other major religions as well.

Eh, if Disney wouldn’t make Angels in the Outfield today then some other lousy Christian exploitation movie outfit would. It’s not like there haven’t been countless made in the last decade, many even released by major studios (certainly more than in the previous decades, but let’s keep pretending we’re being suppressed here.)

Angels is also seemingly continuously on cable/satellite On Demand - Disney sure seems ashamed to have made that one, they’re obviously doing everything they can to hide it!