The Shining 4K UHD (1980)

[kristoffer]

Ok, I just had time to mess more about. I tried the disc again and today I could not spot a sync issue. When I tried to apply delay it looked way off. More so if I added delay via the Oppo. The HDR layer looked exactly the same. The BD looked exactly the same in terms of sync.
I am convinced that my mind was playing tricks on me. However it does seem like this movie used a fair bit of ADR?
Especially in the interview scene at the beginning?




I was a bit surprised how much more dull the BD looked compared to the UHD BD though.

[Transdimensional]

I think people are being thrown off by how much ADR is actually in this movie. Any shot where a person is turned away from camera or far away is a chance they replaced their lines haha. It's much easier to tell now with the sharp resolution.

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

In some ways it's more like anti-plot which is why it feels like it's unnecessary to some folks, though the stuff with the doctor after Danny's episode should never have been cut.

In a word, it's about pacing. Same reason I prefer the theatrical cuts of the Hobbit and LotR.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Gremal

In a word, it's about pacing. Same reason I prefer the theatrical cuts of the Hobbit and LotR.

I understand that, you'll find me droning about pacing in any number of threads about EEs/DCs/UCs/whatever, but in the case of The Shinning there's some stuff in there that should never have been cut and I'm quite bemused that SK thought it was prudent to do so.

[ROSS.T.G.]

I've never seen the other cut but this is one of the handful of movies that I consider perfect. I can't imagine watching a shorter version.

[JimDiGriz]

Originally Posted by ROSS.T.G.

I've never seen the other cut but this is one of the handful of movies that I consider perfect. I can't imagine watching a shorter version.

I don't want to watch the shorter one anymore. And especially not now because that old Blu-ray looks horrible compared to the 4K transfer.

[ROSS.T.G.]

Originally Posted by JimDiGriz

I don't want to watch the shorter one anymore. And especially not now because that old Blu-ray looks horrible compared to the 4K transfer.

I know it's common practice to say its the best it will ever look but I really think this version is it. Yeah I know OG audio but from a PQ perspective it truly is amazing.

[Cherokee Jack]

Was inspired to give the Euro cut another watch and focus solely on how it fundamentally changes, or doesn't change, the film. First I have to say that I'm glad that The Shining's old BD is still perfectly watchable. Sucks that the Euro cut didn't get a UHD release but it's not like I have to go back to something like The Predator UHE.

The following are new scene transitions and trims that I prefer in the Euro cut. It's long so I'll spoiler it:

[Show spoiler]1 First you go directly from Danny's vision of blood to the family driving to the hotel. The music blends seamlessly and it creates an incredible feeling of foreboding. It also makes the family more of a blank slate as they go to the hotel. You're left to read into the awkward car ride and fact that Jack doesn't want to spend time with his family at the hotel (see point 6) to discern that something's not right. The eventual reveal of Danny's abuse makes sense when you hear it but the Jack character is now less telegraphed as being a ticking time bomb during the first 10 minutes, something I think King would appreciate.

2 Wendy no longer goes on about how 'fantastic' and 'gorgeous' the hotel is. This also helps to make the family more of a blank slate: coupled with the removal of the doctor scene, Wendy is much less of a yokel in this cut. We also see less of her engaging in stereotypical housewife drudgery thanks to a few other trims. This is not less characterization but rather different characterization IMO: Wendy here is just a rather average woman put under incredible stress. I never took issue with Wendy's characterization or Duvall's performance but these changes would probably make certain people more sympathetic to the character, which was probably Kubrick's intent.

3 The cut to Danny's first vision of the twins while in the hotel is now more abrupt and makes clear that Danny's impression of this place is very different from the one his parents are getting during their tour. There are several of these jarring transitions in the Euro cut (see point 7) and it would seem that Kubrick decided that his typical slow burn style wasn't as effective in the horror genre.

4 We now simply have a quick meaningful shot of Wendy and Jack clearly underwhelmed by their quarters rather than the 'cozy' dialogue hammering the point home. This trim also leaves the hedge maze reveal for when Wendy and Danny walk in it. That scene is enough to set the maze up for later so another good trim.

5 This trim is not included in the movie-censorship.com page for some reason: Instead of Hallorann cajoling Danny a second time into thinking 'real hard' about whether Tony has told him anything about the Overlook, Danny simply interjects with a blunt, 'Mr. Hallorann, are you scared of this place?'. Besides making the scene tighter, it also emphasizes both Danny's fear of the hotel and his comfort opening up to Hallorann. The Euro cut in general is more Danny-centric, something I'll touch on later.

6 Wendy asks Jack if he wants to take a walk with her and he says that he should write instead. Rather than see Jack say he loves the hotel make his silly ghost sound it cuts immediately to Wendy and Danny happily running outside while Jack isn't writing. The contrast is clear: Wendy and Danny have a healthy relationship as Jack chooses to retreat into the hotel (we get the first glimpse of his looming insanity as stares into the replica hedge maze).

7 One of my favorite new scene transitions even though it removes a shot I love: Instead of seeing Danny and Wendy watching TV during a blizzard before asking to go get his firetruck, the movie now immediate transitions from a time card to Danny carefully opening his father's door. I love this for a few reasons. First, it's a jarring transition that's designed to make the viewer uncomfortable; the Bartok music used here is my favorite in the film and the way it starts up without warning is fantastic. Second, the encounter with his father now immediately follows one of his visions of the twins saying 'forever and ever'. Kubrick seems to be saying that Jack is now just another ghoul in the hotel for his son to fear.

8 A disproportionate number of scenes in the first half of the family's stay at the Overlook (before Danny enters room 237) now feature Danny exploring the hotel with occasional glimpses of Jack's growing insanity. This is appropriate since Danny, Jack and the hotel are the film's true main characters and the only ones essential to the very simple plot. Danny's scenes during this part of the film are also its most effective 'creeping dread' moments; cut out the fat around them and the sense of impending doom never abates. The fact that the Euro cut never allows the viewer to become comfortable, even during the Boulder sequence and hotel tour, is probably the most fundamental reason why I prefer it to the American cut.

To me it's clear that Kubrick made his cuts with purpose when altering the film for its international release. It's not the hack job that some allege even if he does remove a few scenes/moments that some, myself included, like and mess up Hallorann's introduction. It works differently than the American cut and should be viewed by all if only to compare how Kubrick significantly altered the tone & structure of his film through editing. I doubt the Euro cut will will any converts from people who already love the American cut without reservations but it might find fans among people who consider the earlier release a flawed masterpiece. Shame that WB seems to be relegating it to the dustbin of history against Kubrick's wishes.

Originally Posted by TwoTecs

The Steadicam shots is exactly what I am talking about though. They are signature Kubrick and they give us a sense of what it is like to be in the hotel.

The doctor conversation is character development for Wendy. It is good background for the couple's relationship. There is nothing inherently wrong with exposition in spite of what Screenwriting 101 manuals would have you believe.

That's a fair argument regarding the Steadicam shots' importance. I like them and they're effective at showing off the hotel but I find the Euro cut far more claustrophobic and thus better at making the hotel seem horrifying.

As for Wendy, see point number 2 above.

Originally Posted by TwoTecs

The American version is the more luxuriously paced version though. Your argument is self-contradictory. The American version is the one that doesn't rush from one plot point to another but instead has plenty of space in the middle for texture.

See Geoff's 'anti-plot' comment below. The late reveal of Jack's abuse of Danny is basically the only plot point in the Euro cut; the rest is basically non-stop 'family goes to hotel and father tries to kill family after going nuts'. That one plot point is particularly effective however as it fundamentally changes how we view the Torrance family dynamic even if we could already see that they weren't a happy family. It's the American cut that slowly plods from reveal to reveal, including the biggest one at the film's outset, so that nothing is surprising along the way.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

In some ways it's more like anti-plot which is why it feels like it's unnecessary to some folks, though the stuff with the doctor after Danny's episode should never have been cut.

I won't repeat what I said above but I will add that cutting that scene and downplaying Jack's alcoholism/backstory in general (Jack's dialogue about formerly being a schoolteacher is also cut) fits with Kubrick's documented disinterest with that element of King's book. Far more responsibility for Jack's actions is now placed on the hotel rather than his history of alcoholism and abuse though it still leaves room for interpretation.

[Nitroboy]

Originally Posted by Transdimensional

I think people are being thrown off by how much ADR is actually in this movie. Any shot where a person is turned away from camera or far away is a chance they replaced their lines haha. It's much easier to tell now with the sharp resolution.

No. The entire track was off. Dialogue, foley sounds, on-set sounds. You name it, it was off.

[Knrsa333]

Any hope for the 1997 TV version to get at least a blu? :/ I have a weird attatchment to that version. Grew up with it and was actually the first version I had seen.

[Knrsa333]

Damn, The nature shots of the car driving through the terrain are just so damn beautiful in 4k I could sit through a whole movie just watching that!

[Matt89]

Yeah, the opening is really stunning in 4K.

~Matt

[TheLostWarriors]

The Franch combo back with 2001 A Space Odyssey is the best deal for the back, right?

[crazybeats]

Both versions should be available and at the end of the day, Stanley Kubrick lived in the UK for decades so......did he really care about America that much? He clearly took the time to redit this entire film for EU audiences, why didn't he send this newer cut to America? I just think it was released there in it's initial form and that was it. I don't think it was a priority of his to make sure the world saw his newer cut, and when you add in the fact he lived in the UK all those years....I think what he gave the UK was his preferred version.

[nymets24]

Originally Posted by mar3o

I noticed some horrible pixellation right near the beginning during an overhead shot of the card driving along - the sky at the top looked awful in one shot. Did anybody else notice this? I saw no other instances of this happening.

Is this around the 2:45 mark? I believe those are the helicopter blades.

[Filmmaker]

Originally Posted by crazybeats

Both versions should be available and at the end of the day, Stanley Kubrick lived in the UK for decades so......did he really care about America that much? He clearly took the time to redit this entire film for EU audiences, why didn't he send this newer cut to America? I just think it was released there in it's initial form and that was it. I don't think it was a priority of his to make sure the world saw his newer cut, and when you add in the fact he lived in the UK all those years....I think what he gave the UK was his preferred version.

1. His last three films took place in America (or, in the case of FMJ, was told from an American perspective).

2. If the UK was the his final word on THE SHINING, he could’ve fixed that in the U.S. for cable and home video, but he never did.

[Cherokee Jack]

Originally Posted by crazybeats

Both versions should be available and at the end of the day, Stanley Kubrick lived in the UK for decades so......did he really care about America that much? He clearly took the time to redit this entire film for EU audiences, why didn't he send this newer cut to America? I just think it was released there in it's initial form and that was it. I don't think it was a priority of his to make sure the world saw his newer cut, and when you add in the fact he lived in the UK all those years....I think what he gave the UK was his preferred version.

Kubrick was a fan of American pop culture all the way into the nineties. I remember reading that he had people send him VHS recordings of The Simpsons and American football for example.

Originally Posted by Filmmaker

1. His last three films took place in America (or, in the case of FMJ, was told from an American perspective).

2. If the UK was the his final word on THE SHINING, he could’ve fixed that in the U.S. for cable and home video, but he never did.

Odd argument from someone who's celebrated the non-release of the Euro cut on UHD. SK obviously could have done away with either cut had that been his wish. This is the man who voluntarily removed ACO from circulation in the UK and sent people around the USA to collect and destroy the original ending of The Shining itself after all. That he didn't suggests he considered both cuts equally valid though you've already said that doesn't matter to you.

[nekromantik]

i also getting lip sync issues on DV playback.
there is normally some anyway on 2017 OLEDs with DV movies but its more noticeable on here.

[Filmmaker]

Originally Posted by Cherokee Jack

Odd argument from someone who's celebrated the non-release of the Euro cut on UHD. SK obviously could have done away with either cut had that been his wish. This is the man who voluntarily removed ACO from circulation in the UK and sent people around the USA to collect and destroy the original ending of The Shining itself after all. That he didn't suggests he considered both cuts equally valid though you've already said that doesn't matter to you.

It’s not an odd argument at all. What we have here is an extremely rare case of, effectively, two director’s cuts of which Kubrick clearly approves, which means it’s down to the individual audience members to choose their director’s cut of choice. I think the UK cut is clearly, overtly lesser than the U.S. cut, so I, personally, feel not an ounce of grief that it’s being phased out.

[Cherokee Jack]

Originally Posted by Filmmaker

It’s not an odd argument at all. What we have here is an extremely rare case of, effectively, two director’s cuts of which Kubrick clearly approves, which means it’s down to the individual audience members to choose their director’s cut of choice. I think the UK cut is clearly, overtly lesser than the U.S. cut, so I, personally, feel not an ounce of grief that it’s being phased out.

It's odd and it's hypocritical. Either Kubrick's decision to leave both cuts exclusive to their respective markets until his death mattered or it didn't. How you or I feel about which cut is superior is irrelevant.