HD-DVD is prior in sight of our "precious" Microsoft

[adeel_bm]

Extracted From XBOX.com

Why HD DVD?
It's no secret that there are two next-gen DVD formats hitting the market. The first to market was HD DVD and the second (indeed already out in Japan) is Blu-ray. After two years of deliberation, Microsoft made its choice and decided to back HD DVD. The question then becomes why? Here are a few reasons:

• Manufacturing: Concerns developed regarding Blu-ray's ability to manufacturer the discs at the capacity originally intended. In fact, with the Blu-ray launch in Japan, the discs are being created at single-layer 25 Gigabyte capacity, which is half of the originally intended 50 gigabytes.

• Easy to Damage: Because Blu-ray discs are encoded near the very top layer of the disc with limited protection, the data is literally at higher risk to damage. Conversely, HD DVD maintains physical protection similar to standard DVD.

• Copy Protection: Blu-ray utilizes not one, but two different forms of copy protection, adding an extra layer of protection and complexity that just didn't appear necessary.

[thunderhawk]

The forgot to mention it's the weakest format in the war and that their support suits perfectly in their plan to penetrate the market and take it over once they've made their knowhow and partners...
+ They also forgot to mention that the first 2 reasons mentioned are faulty.

And I need to make some time for BCI ..

[adeel_bm]

Originally Posted by thunderhawk

They also forgot to mention that the first 2 reasons mentioned are faulty.

Regarding Number#2 (ie. Easy to damage): then what is THIS ->

Each Blu-ray disc is about the same thickness (1.2 millimeters) as a DVD. But the two types of discs store data differently. In a DVD, the data is sandwiched between two polycarbonate layers, each 0.6-mm thick. Having a polycarbonate layer on top of the data can cause a problem called birefringence, in which the substrate layer refracts the laser light into two separate beams. If the beam is split too widely, the disc cannot be read. Also, if the DVD surface is not exactly flat, and is therefore not exactly perpendicular to the beam, it can lead to a problem known as disc tilt, in which the laser beam is distorted. All of these issues lead to a very involved manufacturing process.

The Blu-ray disc overcomes DVD-reading issues by placing the data on top of a 1.1-mm-thick polycarbonate layer. Having the data on top prevents birefringence and therefore prevents readability problems. And, with the recording layer sitting closer to the objective lens of the reading mechanism, the problem of disc tilt is virtually eliminated. Because the data is closer to the surface, a hard coating is placed on the outside of the disc to protect it from scratches and fingerprints.

So saaad Microsoft is taking decisions on hypothetical grounds!


--
Being in the World, where blind is leading the blind...

[thunderhawk]

Originally Posted by adeel_bm

So saaad Microsoft is taking decisions on hypothetical grounds!

Ofcourse. They haven't got another choise. *-*

If they'd actually READ the technical papers, they would know they were wrong.
But that ofcourse isn't in favor for their profit...

[phloyd]

Copy Protection: Blu-ray utilizes not one, but two different forms of copy protection, adding an extra layer of protection and complexity that just didn't appear necessary.

Except to Disney and Fox ... hahaha...

[Dave]

Originally Posted by adeel_bm

Easy to Damage

Untrue. BD have a scratch proof DURABIS2 layer while HD DVD have none. So BD are more reliable to store valuable data on!

[Psiweaver]

Haha M$ makes me laugh they give some of the funniest reasons for why they do things half the time there completely off base.

[Blu-rayrules]

Originally Posted by Psiweaver

Haha M$ makes me laugh they give some of the funniest reasons for why they do things half the time there completely off base.

I am wondering when M$ will realize their mistake...and support Blu-ray

[Applefiend]

Bit of honesty would be good. "We support HD DVD because it hurts Sony and Playstation 3, givig XBox 360 a better chance to succeed.".

[AV_Integrated]

I don't think it has anything to do with X-Box 360 or the format wars at all. M$ is a $oftware company first and foremost. They don't make money on the X360, they make money on the games. They won't make a ton of money on HD-DVD movies or an HD-DVD add-on, but they will on VC-1 encoding software.

Most of all, they will have time to have a real working medium to develop and test HD formats and codecs to see how the public will respond to them while they work on the HTPC. WME (Windows Media Edition) is, as I see it, the real goal for M$. They don't care about $ony that much or the HD disc format war. What they want is to put a WME box in every home in the world and allow downloaded movies. Not 'streamed' the way some people think, but perfectly matched HD content for your display. Something that works like Netflix. Yes, as we speak, M$ is setting up alliances with studios and websites to deliver movies to homes over traditional download methods.

But, the future... Picture it: A WME device is sitting in your equipment rack. It contains CableCard v2.0 or DirecTVCard or DishCard which allow you to have full Tivo-like control over all your day-to-day HD and SD television watching. When you want to get some movies you use a Netflix type of on screen guide and setup a queue that you add movies to. While things are slow on your network, the system downloads movies. While YOU only have access to 2 or 3 at a time, the system may download 10 or 20 onto your drive and have them waiting. You can setup the resolution of your system so that if you are working with a 480p display, you get a 480p movie. If it is full 1080p, then that is what you get. A perfect match, and no wasted GB in downloads are necessary. Perhaps a price boost for higher quality movies.

No physical movies to ship, damage, or not have in stock - EVER.
No 'long wait' for a new movie that you want to see on your display.
No 5 different component in your rack for every single different thing you need - a true one box solution to everything. Heck, throw an amp and surround processor in to finish things off!

Network it all with M$ WME boxes throughout the home, perhaps even built directly into some display devices. So, you turn on your OLED in the master bedroom and the movie you started downstairs, you finish up in the bedroom, then 'return' the movie and a new movie in your queue becomes available to watch.

Forget the format war. Keep people confused, keep the formats separate, and keep ONE format from taking hold and dominating. If that were to happen, then M$ would have a fight against that existing HD format instead of laying claim to the next TRUE HD format and step up in technology. I see this as a multi-billion, multi-year long term strategy for M$ and I applaud them for it. Even if it pisses me off.

[ethan]

yep, that's their strategy all right...

But I dare to say it won't work. People want to own the movies. They collect movies. Having everything locked onto a heavily DRMd hard drive that you can't backup, that can be wiped by a virus, or when (not if) the hard drive fails ? On a microsoft system ? right. I'll put my 5000$ collection in there.

I know there's a lot of stupid consumers but not THAT much. Hmmm... Is there?
I've been wrong about that before

[georgir]

Around the time with the MS-HP fiasco, the main reasons they were quoting were iHD vs BD-J, and Mandatory Managed Copy differences.
The first is really a non-issue for consumers as they won't be able to see whats backstage, and I even dare say that java is actually easier for software and hardware makers being already well-developed and popular, versus some newcomer proprietary design (plus i don't want to have to install weekly security patches from microsoft )
The MMC quickly turned out to be not quite as consumer-friendly and really necessery in my oppinion, what with the option of that copy incurring pay-per-copy or pay-per-view fees, limitations on watching it only with internet connected devices, or only computers with certain shit installed, etc. Anyway, I guess BD now includes that too, right?

Some time later, they had another stab against bluray, this time concerning royalties that PC builders would have to pay for it... again their explanations didn't have much logic though.

Unlike the above two cases, the set of "reasons" quoted in the original post are not from official microsoft statement. Just some "Ryan Treit" decided to repeat the common HDDVD propaganda BS... the bad thing is, it's kinda working. I meet lots of clueless people who believe point 2 for example; some even are so misguided as to believe HDDVD is compatible with DVD while BluRay isn't, HDDVD has more player manufacturers or more content, etc..

[Applefiend]

These days Microsoft aren't even a software company anymore. They make money from Training(You gotta be Microsoft certified), XBox(OK, that mostly loses billions. They don't lose money on hardware, then make it on software... They just lose money on Xbox full stop), perhiperals (mice, joysticks, keyboards), MSNBC.

The new thing is this fat chunky Zune iPod clone they're supposed to be spending $500 million advertising. Spend $500 million advertising cow manure everyone will think they need one.

The two cash cows, Windows and Microsoft Office still make lots of cash for them, but they have a finger in every pie.

[ethan]

yeah, the only profitable divisions are Windows and Office. Everything else makes substantial losses that no company could sustain in a sane competitive market. The judgement against microsoft that was supposed to split them into 3 companies was the best thing to do, and would have brought back true competition in these other markets. "Someone" reversed the judgement when "something happend", so it never happened.

These 2 cash cows are producing a lot of cow manure...

[JTK]

Originally Posted by ethan

yeah, the only profitable divisions are Windows and Office. Everything else makes substantial losses that no company could sustain in a sane competitive market. The judgement against microsoft that was supposed to split them into 3 companies was the best thing to do, and would have brought back true competition in these other markets. The Bush administration reversed the judgement as soon as they came to power, so it never happened.

These 2 cash cows are producing a lot of cow manure...

I think MS is going to do it to themselves before long.

It's better to do it the way you want vs. the government doing it to you/for you.


Vick, this isn't a political forum. We aren't supposed to discuss politics around here, among other things.

[thunderhawk]

Originally Posted by ethan

yeah, the only profitable divisions are Windows and Office.

Not sure about that...
Microsoft is making money on the Xbox division. Not on the console itself, but on the perhiperals and the software. I don't think they intend to lose money... Not even Microsoft is that imperialistic...

Or am I mistaking?

[ethan]

Their earnings on the entire game division made a loss of around 300 million on every fiscal quarter since the first xbox came out. 414 million loss the latest quarter, and a total of 1.2 billion this fiscal year. The entire game division includes all all game studios, 3rd party liscencing revenues and all peripherals sales.

They are losing some serious cash that cannot be regained unless they manage to kill off all competitors.

[Alex Pallas]

Originally Posted by ethan

yep, that's their strategy all right...

But I dare to say it won't work. People want to own the movies. They collect movies. Having everything locked onto a heavily DRMd hard drive that you can't backup, that can be wiped by a virus, or when (not if) the hard drive fails ? On a microsoft system ? right. I'll put my 5000$ collection in there.

I know there's a lot of stupid consumers but not THAT much. Hmmm... Is there?
I've been wrong about that before

this is a great point. alot of people think that you do not need to back up movies, but most people aren't as interested in movies as people like us. the first thing i'll do when i get some bd-rs is decrypt and back up my ENTIRE dvd collection.

on a side note m$ mentions heavy drm, i was under the impression that m$ would be using heavier drm, in fact i thought that was the main reason they are using hd-dvd.

[Psiweaver]

M$ actually uses less DRM because its using HD DVD then they would be using if they used Blu-ray. THe thing about M$ is that they have such large cash reserves that they can pretty much do what they please and there good to go.