Unforgiven 4K UHD (1992)

[SS-3]

Originally Posted by brian9229

The darkness is 100% intentional. Brightening the image will only ruin the nice blacks, not to mention the original photography. Its not like one will be able to see better cranking up the brightness, all that darkness is in the OCN.

That is my understanding after reading the review on this site and several others. How dark is it on my set? The end seen where William (Clint) asks who owns the bar and the owner moves into frame, is so dark, I only see an outline with no real facial detail. You can't make out is expression or anything like that. Only a few scenes are like that but it really stands out. Having owned the previous Blu-ray, you can easily make out his facial expression of fear.

I wonder if other folks see that particular scene that dark. Ironically the reviewer on this site calls out that scene specifically and refers to outlines or something like that.

[slimdude]

Originally Posted by SS-3

That is my understanding after reading the review on this site and several others. How dark is it on my set? The end seen where William (Clint) asks who owns the bar and the owner moves into frame, is so dark, I only see an outline with no real facial detail. You can't make out is expression or anything like that. Only a few scenes are like that but it really stands out. Having owned the previous Blu-ray, you can easily make out his facial expression of fear.

I wonder if other folks see that particular scene that dark. Ironically the reviewer on this site calls out that scene specifically and refers to outlines or something like that.

If I recall, I remember that scene being dark, but that's the way it was filmed to intensify the atmosphere. You can compare the standard Blu-ray to the 4K, to see if there is any noticeable differences.

[SS-3]

Originally Posted by slimdude

If I recall, I remember that scene being dark, but that's the way it was filmed to intensify the atmosphere. You can compare the standard Blu-ray to the 4K, to see if there is any noticeable differences.

I am going to do just that this afternoon. The review on this site did note that that the Blu-ray that accompanies the 4K UHD Blu-ray is not as dark.

[slimdude]

Originally Posted by SS-3

I am going to do just that this afternoon. The review on this site did note that that the Blu-ray that accompanies the 4K UHD Blu-ray is not as dark.

There may be a moderate difference because of the UHD and the HDR.

[n0tredom]

We discussed the darkness of this disc earlier in this thread. The main culprit was the display dimming the image during the sustained dark scenes after a certain period of time. This is easily seen if you watch with subtitles because the white text will suddenly become less bright. There is a setting in the service menu for LG OLEDs that can be toggled off to prevent this from happening.

[SS-3]

The Blu-ray was noticeably lighter than the 4K UHD. I did set dynamic contrast from off to low and then the 4K UHD was identical to the Blu-ray lighting. However, I turned it back off since I've read multiple threads about not using this setting. That and the fact that it only appears to happen with this one disc.

The image remains dark the whole time, it doesn't get darker over a period of time.

I am curious about what members of this forum think about setting dynamic contrast from low to off all time. I've read on several other AV forums that's a big no-no.

[Colson]

For those saying it was intentional, I will disagree strongly. This disc is on a whole new level of darkness when viewed on some TVs. It's a shortcoming not of the disc per se, but of the range of our TVs, I think. IIRC it looks fine on Geoff's Z9D.

On LG OLEDs, with dynamic contrast turned off, tons of detail gets lost in a way that is certainly not true to the original movie and likely not intended. I think it's the result of it being an early disc on the format, and while it does look great with dynamic contrast on, it definitely is way too dark with it off. Yes, these scenes were meant to be dark, but there was still meant to be an actual visible picture on the screen.

[Geoff D]

Did you not turn off the ASBL on your OLED, Colson? That's what's killing the darkness on OLEDs, there's so little little light there that the ASBL is thinking it's a static image and so it dims it to balls.

[Colson]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Did you not turn off the ASBL on your OLED, Colson?

I haven't watched this title since upgrading from my C7 to my C8 (so maybe things have improved), but no I did not, as I am not really sure how to do that. Afaik it isn't anywhere in the settings menu. I'd LOVE to do it, though, if you have a link to some steps.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Colson

I haven't watched this title since upgrading from my C7 to my C8 (so maybe things have improved), but no I did not, as I am not really sure how to do that. Afaik it isn't anywhere in the settings menu. I'd LOVE to do it, though, if you have a link to some steps.

Same applies, the C8 also has aggressive ASBL for such darker content. It requires going into the service menu with a special remote but I have no idea what the specifics are, best to google it although there was a brief discussion in one of the Craig Bond UHD thread (the finale of Skyfall was also tripping the ASBL on some people's TVs) so you could PM some of those folks.

[Colson]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Same applies, the C8 also has aggressive ASBL for such darker content. It requires going into the service menu with a special remote but I have no idea what the specifics are, best to google it although there was a brief discussion in one of the Craig Bond UHD thread (the finale of Skyfall was also tripping the ASBL on some people's TVs) so you could PM some of those folks.

I'll look into it, I appreciate the tip. Why would ASBL kick in for dark content? Showing my ignorance here, I suppose. I thought it was used to bring down the brightness in super bright scenes.

To be clear, my criticisms of the darkness of the disc were not meant to imply an actual issue with the disc - I was merely saying that yes, the disc is very dark, but the darkness that LG OLED owners are seeing is not the intended level or darkness. It's a whole new world of darkness.

EDIT: Turns out disabling ASBL is super easy and only required an Android app. I'll be doing it today! Thanks Geoff. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...g-oled-tv.html

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Colson

I'll look into it, I appreciate the tip. Why would ASBL kick in for dark content? Showing my ignorance here, I suppose. I thought it was used to bring down the brightness in super bright scenes.

There are TWO things that do this on OLEDs: Auto Brightness Limiting (ABL) and Auto Static Brightness Limiting (ASBL). The first is indeed designed to limit peak light output to prolong the life of the phosphors, the latter is a device designed to protect the image from retention/screen burn if it detects a 'static' i.e. non-moving image, dimming the brightness down as it does so.

It's not dimming Unforgiven down because of the darkness per se, as it'd do the same thing if you left a very bright image paused on the screen for a certain length of time. But I know y'all aren't leaving Unforgiven on pause; the problem is that the algorithm used to detect a moving image doesn't seem to work very well with darker content, or at least darker content that doesn't have a lot of moving parts e.g. Munny sitting with Ned by the fireside. Them talking, and the fire flickering, doesn't appear to register and so the ASBL kicks in and dims it down massively unless, as mentioned upthread, you bring up the subtitles or an on-screen menu so as to trick it into raising the brightness back to where it should be.

[edit] I see you gone and done it while I has been typing this out, I'll leave the post here anyways.

[Scottishguy]

Can't say I've noticed this on my C8. But I'm going to investigate the service menu never the less

[jh901]

Originally Posted by Scottishguy

Can't say I've noticed this on my C8. But I'm going to investigate the service menu never the less

There are no displays on the market, whether panel or front projection, which are plug 'n play for "our" purposes. The easiest thing to do for all of those who aren't full blown calibration enthusiasts is to hire Chad B or equivalent. Yeah, it's $450. Yeah, it's worth it. I'd absolutely argue for budgeting in advance.

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by jh901

There are no displays on the market, whether panel or front projection, which are plug 'n play for "our" purposes. The easiest thing to do for all of those who aren't full blown calibration enthusiasts is to hire Chad B or equivalent. Yeah, it's $450. Yeah, it's worth it. I'd absolutely argue for budgeting in advance.

I would bother to calibrate if I wasn't renting. Edinburgh is a nightmare. You can literally be hit with a letter the owner is selling, pack your stuff and get out in 1 month, or two if you have a generous rolling lease agreement.

[Geoff D]

Does moving to another place wipe the calibration from the TV?

[thethingwithnoname]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Does moving to another place wipe the calibration from the TV?

Its more its calibrated to your environment, so how much natural light you have, colour of walls, etc etc.
If its setup in a different room it really should be re-calibrated

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by thethingwithnoname

Its more its calibrated to your environment, so how much natural light you have, colour of walls, etc etc.
If its setup in a different room it really should be re-calibrated

Bingo. And if you're in a flat, it's even worse. Right now where I am and 3 floors up, facing west. I'm getting the full force of the sun.

Luckily my livingroom has a decent enough shady spot to avoid UV death rays killing my OLED.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by thethingwithnoname

Its more its calibrated to your environment, so how much natural light you have, colour of walls, etc etc.
If its setup in a different room it really should be re-calibrated

Oh I see. I only watch movies in the dark so natural light, colour of walls etc mean sod all for my calibration, and for anything watched in daylight for non-critical viewing like sport or news or whatever then I just stick to the basics. Relative luminance SDR is designed to have more light put through it without changing the fundamentals of the image (once calibrated) anyway.


[edit]

Besides, isn't the point for calibration to get it close to what the standard is supposed to be, not how it's perceptually altered by the environment? Never understood having "night/day" calibrations, not for HDR anyway. Brightness I can sorta understand because not everyone watches in a dark room, see above comment about SDR and relative luminance, but with HDR and its absolute luminance then most TVs are already set to maximum light output to correctly follow the PQ EOTF, so you can't make them brighter anyway. But changing something like white balance could cause more problems than it solves.

[jh901]

Originally Posted by Scottishguy

I would bother to calibrate if I wasn't renting. Edinburgh is a nightmare. You can literally be hit with a letter the owner is selling, pack your stuff and get out in 1 month, or two if you have generous rolling lease agreement.

I'm not sure how the two are connected, aside from budget.

There's too much to know about displays these days for the VAST majority of members here on this site to get close to ideal image. Of course, only the very best traveling video calibrators truly know the ins and outs of the displays.

Anyhow, here's two of the very best for US members:

Chad B

Kris D