Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

That's all you have to say, what do you think good Streaming needs?

As to technical requirements Vilya, others and myself have posted a number of post listing speeds needed for various streaming services so no need to rehash again.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

That's all you have to say, what do you think good Streaming needs?

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Reliable connection
No drop outs
Expensive fibre
Not everyone being on devices at the same time
No data caps
Massive improvements in audio quality
Far less artefacts
No degrade in quality when there are issues with the stream.
A background that isn’t banding in challenging scenes
No panning artefacts or stutter

Basically, to stop being so bloody inferior.

Originally Posted by bhampton

The ability to download instead of stream.
The ability to purchase instead of subscribe

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

As to technical requirements Vilya, others and myself have posted a number of post listing speeds needed for various streaming services so no need to rehash again.

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Legally binding guarantees that all content will remain available and unmodified for everyone.

All you guys just name "The Fault in the Stars," but nothing to do with Streaming Quality. Yes we all know that Bitrate has a lot to do with the Quality of Streaming vs Discs, and some Providers have increased this as well as their Codec. You guys know my stance, good Bandwidth 50+Mbps, Hardwired, with Quality Equipment. Your ISP has to have a good connection to the CDN, and reliable Internet Distribution.

As for Downloads, Purchase, and Subscriptions that will depend on the Providers you choose. Downloads will be very compressed unless you have Kaleidoscope, but this will be costly. Purchase and Subscription will depend on the Providers of choice.

The Studios have never liked losing control of their content, so legally binding guarantees are not something they would consider. I guess with Disc you feel you have this, but it's still dependent on the next Format. I say Streaming is the Future, but here again very dependent on your priorities.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

All you guys just name "The Fault in the Stars," but nothing to do with Streaming Quality. Yes we all know that Bitrate has a lot to do with the Quality of Streaming vs Discs, and some Providers have increased this as well as their Codec. You guys know my stance, good Bandwidth 50+Mbps, Hardwired, with Quality Equipment. Your ISP has to have a good connection to the CDN, and reliable Internet Distribution.

As for Downloads, Purchase, and Subscriptions that will depend on the Providers you choose. Downloads will be very compressed unless you have Kaleidoscope, but this will be costly. Purchase and Subscription will depend on the Providers of choice.

The Studios have never liked losing control of their content, so legally binding guarantees are not something they would consider. I guess with Disc you feel you have this, but it's still dependent on the next Format. I say Streaming is the Future, but here again very dependent on your priorities.

You continue to make no sense and in that regard you never disappoint.

The faults mentioned have EVERYTHING to do with the quality of streaming. They were listed because they describe the many negatives of streaming's performance. The importance of these faults will vary with the viewer and their own pain threshold. While you deny even the existence of these faults (everything looks "fantastic" to you), most of us see them plainly.

Streaming bitrates have been stagnant for years along with the codecs that they use. There is nothing new here. You continue to confuse your wishes with reality.

The discs that I own are fully under my control and that control has absolutely NOTHING to do with whatever the next physical format may be if there even is one. All disc players are backwards compatible. No matter what format may, or may not, come next, it will have no effect on my ability to watch my DVDs, my blu-rays, my 3D blu-rays, or my 4K discs.

The studios will never guarantee anything about what they offer via subscription streaming or by digital purchase. They can edit or remove this content at will and without providing any compensation; it is all in the terms of service that almost no one bothers to read.

As for the studios wanting control over their content, of course they do, but streaming that same content over the internet makes it super easy to steal. If you think that eliminating physical media gives the studios full control, then you are beyond naive. The very internet that makes streaming possible also enables piracy. Anyone who knows how can literally just take whatever they want.

Streaming is not the future; it is just one part of the present home video market and it is not even the largest part; it is a very distant second to traditional pay TV services. If by the future you think that one day streaming will overtake pay TV, then don't hold your breath as that day may never come and even if it ever does, I doubt that either one of us will live to see it. Regardless, streaming will never be our only option and for that I remain thankful.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

All you guys just name "The Fault in the Stars," but nothing to do with Streaming Quality. Yes we all know that Bitrate has a lot to do with the Quality of Streaming vs Discs, and some Providers have increased this as well as their Codec. You guys know my stance, good Bandwidth 50+Mbps, Hardwired, with Quality Equipment. Your ISP has to have a good connection to the CDN, and reliable Internet Distribution.

As for Downloads, Purchase, and Subscriptions that will depend on the Providers you choose. Downloads will be very compressed unless you have Kaleidoscope, but this will be costly. Purchase and Subscription will depend on the Providers of choice.

The Studios have never liked losing control of their content, so legally binding guarantees are not something they would consider. I guess with Disc you feel you have this, but it's still dependent on the next Format. I say Streaming is the Future, but here again very dependent on your priorities.

That’s like saying the Rolls Royce is beautiful to drive therefore all cars are beautiful to drive. You are assuming the very best, very highest possible capability of streaming then trying to apply it to the masses. You are ignoring the many complications that prevent a top notch streaming experience.

Now, why go to all that trouble when you can just pop a disc in and know (99% of the time) you will have a presentation worthy of a HT. I know HT is not really a huge concern to you, hence your previous setup. Maybe that’s why you are happy to accept crap and try to pass it off as excellent. When I say crap, I mean in relation to a 4K disc or even Blu-ray experience. The masses like crap, I’m talking HT enthusiasts.

Also, I understand you are retired? Surely, as a mature guy, you want our older films preserved and uncensored?

[bhampton]

A friend loaned me his Disney+ credentials and I tried watching Cars in 4K ATMOS.

It's not good. ... I mean it's good but I think an upsampled DVD could compete pretty well with it.

You may have a $140/month connection to the internet but the stuff available is reduced to almost nothing to distribute it to people on Wifi at the supermarket. I think of it like the radio. My cds sound better.

My UHD, BD, 3DBD, SACD, DVD, CD player (Sony X700) operates fine with the network dis-abled.
I can't overstate the comfort of actually owning some movies. Get them while you can.


-Brian

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

All you guys just name "The Fault in the Stars," but nothing to do with Streaming Quality.

No matter what you or I have most folks are satisfied with fairly low bit rates as seen here. This average has only moved up about 1 Mbps over the last 5 years.

Just curious, why do you keep mentioning codecs when nothing has changed for years? Do you have memory problems?

[Steedeel]

Little Steedeel thought as it’s getting towards Christmas.

A few asked the question a while back, (relating to speed watching) what possible reason would they have for removing the normal speed option?

To encourage less viewing time to cut down on carbon emissions.

Thank you, that’s all.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Little Steedeel thought as it’s getting towards Christmas.

A few asked the question a while back, (relating to speed watching) what possible reason would they have for removing the normal speed option?

To encourage less viewing time to cut down on carbon emissions.

Thank you, that’s all.

Watching content at higher speed does not mean that less time would be spent viewing. It just means that more content would be watched in a viewing session.

The option to watch at normal speed will never be removed.

Watching content, whether it is from streaming or from any other source, uses a trivial amount of power. The estimated annual operating cost of my new 85" TV is about $55 per year. That's just 15 cents per day.

The U.S. government listed the major sources of carbon emissions and nothing involving home video entertainment even made that list. Our appliances and our automobiles are the biggest offenders; our viewing habits don't even register. If the reduction of carbon emissions from our homes were to be mandated, they would start with these, not with our Rokus or our TVs.

While it is very "green" of you to recycle these old worries of yours, it would be far more entertaining if you would cook up something new to about.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Watching content at higher speed does not mean that less time would be spent viewing. It just means that more content would be watched in a viewing session.

The option to watch at normal speed will never be removed.

Watching content, whether it is from streaming or from any other source, uses a trivial amount of power. The estimated annual operating cost of my new 85" TV is about $55 per year. That's just 15 cents per day.

The U.S. government listed the major sources of carbon emissions and nothing involving home video entertainment even made that list. Our appliances and our automobiles are the biggest offenders; our viewing habits don't even register. If the reduction of carbon emissions from our homes were to be mandated, they would start with these, not with our Rokus or our TVs.

If pressure was applied to consumers, it would guilt trip many of them. They may then watch less content.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

If pressure was applied to consumers, it would guilt trip many of them. They may then watch less content.

If pigs had wings, they might fly.

No one is going to "pressure" anyone to reduce their carbon footprint by insisting that they cutback back on their usage of the lowest power consuming devices that they have.

If I want to reduce my power consumption, I adjust my thermostat. Turning off my TV won't make any appreciable impact.

As for laying a guilt trip on people, that's ; people in our consumerist society do as they please and they do it often. That will not change.

Give us something new to be afraid of; I am of these reruns of yours.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

If pigs had wings, they might fly.

No one is going to "pressure" anyone to reduce their carbon footprint by insisting that they cutback back on their usage of the lowest power consuming devices that they have.

If I want to reduce my power consumption, I adjust my thermostat. Turning off my TV won't make any appreciable impact.

As for laying a guilt trip on people, that's ; people in our consumerist society do as they please and they do it often. That will not change.

Give us something new to be afraid of; I am of these reruns of yours.

Just my long standing concerns. Take a look at this weeks home Media figures. It seems those of us ho love owning content and appreciate quality are declining by the month.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Just my long standing concerns. Take a look at this weeks home Media figures. It seems those of us ho love owning content and appreciate quality are declining by the month.

At first glance, the results for week ending Nov. 23rd are grim. On the other hand, it was the week ending before Thanksgiving, too. Everyone knew that the bargains would come after Thanksgiving. People probably delayed buying in anticipation of the upcoming Black Friday/ Cyber Monday deals. I did.

I am as good at spinning news as any politician that ever politicked.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

At first glance, the results for week ending Nov. 23rd are grim. On the other hand, it was the week ending before Thanksgiving, too. Everyone knew that the bargains would come after Thanksgiving. People probably delayed buying in anticipation of the upcoming Black Friday/ Cyber Monday deals. I did.

I am as good at spinning news as any politician that ever politicked.

That’s true.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

People probably delayed buying in anticipation of the upcoming Black Friday/ Cyber Monday deals. I did.

Me three. Just hope they did not change the codec before the Black Friday sales.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

No matter what you or I have most folks are satisfied with fairly low bit rates as seen here. This average has only moved up about 1 Mbps over the last 5 years.

Just curious, why do you keep mentioning codecs when nothing has changed for years? Do you have memory problems?

Why do you think that the Codec for Disc is different than Streaming. The Blu-ray Codec is H.264, and most Streaming Providers use this, and now 4K UHD use H.265 and so does the Streaming Providers. VVC Codec is on the Horizon which is more efficient with High Quality, and the Streaming Providers are on board here too.

With the Streaming Wars taking off do you really think Streaming Providers don't want to give the best Quality. If you were running these companies wouldn't you want the best Quality instead of cheap low Bandwidth options? Cheap is better for the low Quality Disc and Streaming Providers, and only the strong will survive that's why Discs are on a Death Spiral, nobody wants to pay the Full Market Price!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Why do you think that the Codec for Disc is different than Streaming. The Blu-ray Codec is H.264, and most Streaming Providers use this, and now 4K UHD use H.265 and so does the Streaming Providers. VVC Codec is on the Horizon which is more efficient with High Quality, and the Streaming Providers are on board here too.

With the Streaming Wars taking off do you really think Streaming Providers don't want to give the best Quality. If you were running these companies wouldn't you want the best Quality instead of cheap low Bandwidth options? Cheap is better for the low Quality Disc and Streaming Providers, and only the strong will survive that's why Discs are on a Death Spiral, nobody want to pay the Full Market Price!

Streaming and discs are using the same codecs, but streaming is much, much more compressed. Any new codecs that may come along will benefit both streaming and discs alike. The fact remains that the codecs being used have been the same for years.

Streaming services are competing with other streaming services and their customers are not all that demanding in terms of video quality and especially with audio quality. You're a perfect example of their easily pleased clientele. You think everything streamed looks "fantastic" already; streaming providers don't need to improve a thing to keep low standard customers like you. Pricing and selection will be the determining factors for which streaming providers succeed.

Higher bitrates would use more data and using more data would cost the consumer more and streaming customers don't like to pay very much. They want cheap fast food, not a gourmet meal.

If by "full market price" you mean MSRP, then as an avid disc buyer I can tell you with absolute certainty that I never pay full MSRP. No savvy shopper does and few retailers, online or brick & mortar, attempt to sell discs at full MSRP. If you actually bought discs, you would know this, but instead you speak from your profound ignorance as usual.

As much as your hateful and vindictive self wants it to be the case, discs are not in a "death spiral." Discs are a niche market for the more discriminating consumer that wants to truly own their content in the best possible quality and on a disc that can never be edited to accommodate the latest fit of political correctness. Disc buyers seek the best quality, unchangeable content, and real ownership. Many streaming customers are just your garden variety bargain hunters who take whatever the streaming providers choose to feed them and that care more about convenience and economy than they do about anything else.

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Cheap is better for the low Quality Disc and Streaming Providers, and only the strong will survive that's why Discs are on a Death Spiral, nobody wants to pay the Full Market Price!

Originally Posted by Vilya

If by "full market price" you mean MSRP, then as an avid disc buyer I can tell you with absolute certainty that I never pay full MSRP. No savvy shopper does and few retailers, online or brick & mortar, attempt to sell discs at full MSRP. If you actually bought discs, you would know this, but instead you speak from your profound ignorance as usual.

I see the resident sadist is back spouting nonsense.

Between Black Friday and Cyber Monday I purchased 5 4K movies and 2 Blu-ray's for around $60. That works out to about $8.50 per disc. Just for kicks I looked up the same movies on Vudu to see how much they cost. If I had purchased those 7 movies digitally it would have come to around $104. So buying the physical versions saved me $44 and I got a digital copy with all of them. But please, do tell me how discs are sooooo expensive and digital versions are sooooo much cheaper.

And don't come back with how you can buy codes from people on this site and others cheaper than outright buying them digitally. Because when you do that you really are supporting physical copies. Being a predatory vulture that swoops in and buys cheap codes does not mean you support digital over physical because you are doing nothing to support EST. You are just picking at physical leftovers at the expense of the format you hold so dear. It is the worst kind of hypocrisy.

The fact is you are too ignorant to realize that you don't have any idea what you're talking about yet keep spouting hateful fallacies to justify your own prejudices. You do nothing to contribute to either format and scavenge off those that put their money where their mouth is. The opinion of an ignorant predator is less than meaningless. It's insulting to those of us that actually support movies. Think about that before you come back here with your nonsense again.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Why do you think that the Codec for Disc is different than Streaming. The Blu-ray Codec is H.264, and most Streaming Providers use this, and now 4K UHD use H.265 and so does the Streaming Providers. VVC Codec is on the Horizon which is more efficient with High Quality, and the Streaming Providers are on board here too.

With the Streaming Wars taking off do you really think Streaming Providers don't want to give the best Quality. If you were running these companies wouldn't you want the best Quality instead of cheap low Bandwidth options? Cheap is better for the low Quality Disc and Streaming Providers, and only the strong will survive that's why Discs are on a Death Spiral, nobody wants to pay the Full Market Price!

Yeah, I mean people really wanted to pay full price for Digital didn’t they?

People have replied on cheap codes and some even beg for freebies. Now that market is dying on its arse, you pretend that you meant subscription was the future. That was NOT what you were saying a while back. You were beating the drum for your Sony downloads and declaring them the future.

[bhampton]

Buying Discs is like buying books.

Streaming is like having a library card.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Why do you think that the Codec for Disc is different than Streaming.

Has your doctor ever warned you to never have an enema? If so it would be because you would probably lose ¾ of your body weight.