Gemini Man 4K UHD 60fps (2019)

[DJR662]

C'mon guys, get with the program here.

Final Destination 3, Live Free Or Die Hard, The Thing 2011, Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter...

Having said that, not even MEW can make me watch something in HFR.

[brainofj72]

Surprised to see distaste for HFR. I’ll take all the HFR I can get!

[iaragorn1]

Originally Posted by brainofj72

Surprised to see distaste for HFR. I’ll take all the HFR I can get!

I'm not. Some people see it as SOE (this is getting technical as it seems to be in the vain of this thread.

Having seen HFR, I can understand that point of view but I kind of like it. It's really going to take time and more films to get people to come around after a lifetime watching 24/25/30 as the standard frame rates (I'm not really going to get technical with the frame rates)

[eddievanhalen]

Originally Posted by brainofj72

Surprised to see distaste for HFR. I’ll take all the HFR I can get!

Me too, I dislike 24 fps judder.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by iaragorn1

I'm not. Some people see it as SOE (this is getting technical as it seems to be in the vain of this thread.

Having seen HFR, I can understand that point of view but I kind of like it. It's really going to take time and more films to get people to come around after a lifetime watching 24/25/30 as the standard frame rates (I'm not really going to get technical with the frame rates)

IMO there is "nothing to come around to".

24p is the golden standard for motion pictures, you take that away and along goes the natural film look and movie magic.

[Gacivory]

If anyone wants a history of why we shoot 24fps.

https://www.filmindependent.org/blog...es-per-second/

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by DJR662

24p is the golden standard for motion pictures, you take that away and along goes the unnatural film look and movie magic.

FTFY. Yes, many of us have a bias toward it and it's ingrained into our cinematic vocabularies through decades of exposure. That doesn't make it any more "natural" and, being that it has less fidelity, the opposite is, in fact, true.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

FTFY. Yes, many of us have a bias toward it and it's ingrained into our cinematic vocabularies through decades of exposure. That doesn't make it any more "natural" and, being that it has less fidelity, the opposite is, in fact, true.

Whatever works for you, man. I'm content with 24p, IMO it's the only way to go and I don't want it any other way.

Somehow though I'm not afraid HFR will be "taking over", I have a feeling 24p will remain the standard for quite some time...

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by DJR662

I'm not out championing anything; I'm just correcting inaccuracies where I see them.

[wxman2003]

Originally Posted by Qsxdrgbhu

Since LG E6 does not support Dolby Vision 60 FPS (DV 24 FPS is supported), will it just play HDR10 or could there be playback issues?

I have the OPPO 203 which allows me to force it to only playback HDR10. So on the E6, it should playback HDR10/60p since the tv does allow for HDR@60. Now if you don't have a player that can force HDR10, I would bet it will playback at 4k24 DV.

I even tried forcing my OPPO 203 to playback 1080p60, and forced DV (which out tv's support) and it ignored that setting and played back at 4K24 DV.

I did test out a DV disc, forced player to HDR10/60p, and it did playback at 4K60 HDR10.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by wxman2003

I have the OPPO 203 which allows me to force it to only playback HDR10. So on the E6, it should playback HDR10/60p since the tv does allow for HDR@60. Now if you don't have a player that can force HDR10, I would bet it will playback at 4k24 DV.

I even tried forcing my OPPO 203 to playback 1080p60, and forced DV (which out tv's support) and it ignored that setting and played back at 4K24 DV.

I bet it won't, because 60 into 24 doesn't go. You mention forcing DV with the player set to 1080p60 but this isn't the same situation as the content itself likely wasn't 1080p60 (no such spec on regular BD), so it was output at the correct 24p in DV. But when the source *itself* is 60p then it can't be converted in-player without completely wrecking the frame rate, i.e. it can't just drop 36 frames and have it looking in any way normal. (Indeed, the actual 24p version of Gemini Man is specially frame blended from the 120fps original, as is the 60p version.)

In this situation, with the player set to Auto for HDR and receiving the EDID from the TV saying it can't do DV in 4K60, then I'd expect it to kick out HDR10 in 4K60, just like the 4K60 DV clips I've tried with the higher DV profile than what the player can recognise: if it ultimately can't play DV at the frame rate it's intended to play at then I think it'll bypass the DV layer completely. You don't need to have a player that forces HDR10 in order to do this.

[wxman2003]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I bet it won't, because 60 into 24 doesn't go. You mention forcing DV with the player set to 1080p60 but this isn't the same situation as the content itself likely wasn't 1080p60 (no such spec on regular BD), so it was output at the correct 24p in DV. But when the source *itself* is 60p then it can't be converted in-player without completely wrecking the frame rate, i.e. it can't just drop 36 frames and have it looking in any way normal. (Indeed, the actual 24p version of Gemini Man is specially frame blended from the 120fps original, as is the 60p version.)

In this situation, with the player set to Auto for HDR and receiving the EDID from the TV saying it can't do DV in 4K60, then I'd expect it to kick out HDR10 in 4K60, just like the 4K60 DV clips I've tried with the higher DV profile than what the player can recognise: if it ultimately can't play DV at the frame rate it's intended to play at then I think it'll bypass the DV layer completely. You don't need to have a player that forces HDR10 in order to do this.

What about people that have 1080p tv's hooked up to a 203? If you playback an HDR disc, the player will send a 1080p SDR image to the tv. With this movie, will it send 60fps, or will it not work at all? I would think it should still work.

[slimdude]

Originally Posted by wxman2003

I have the OPPO 203 which allows me to force it to only playback HDR10. So on the E6, it should playback HDR10/60p since the tv does allow for HDR@60. Now if you don't have a player that can force HDR10, I would bet it will playback at 4k24 DV.

I even tried forcing my OPPO 203 to playback 1080p60, and forced DV (which out tv's support) and it ignored that setting and played back at 4K24 DV.

I did test out a DV disc, forced player to HDR10/60p, and it did playback at 4K60 HDR10.

I see you're a tech geek who like to tinker and experiment with their equipment, and you're not going to be satisfied until you screw something up. Curiosity killed the cat! If it's not broke, don't fix it.

[wxman2003]

Originally Posted by slimdude

I see you're a tech geek who like to tinker and experiment with their equipment, and you're not going to be satisfied until you screw something up. Curiosity killed the cat!

Yep, I like to tinker. with regards to the 203, and this HFR disc, I wonder if I set the player to output 1080p60 and force the player to output in DV, if I will get a 1080p60 DV image instead of a 4K60 HDR10 image? My Amazon Fire Cube will do that with Netflix and Disney since they are sending DV at 60fps via that device, and it recognizes my tv cant do 4K60 DV, and changes it to 1080p60 DV. It's the only streaming device i know that does that.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by wxman2003

What about people that have 1080p tv's hooked up to a 203? If you playback an HDR disc, the player will send a 1080p SDR image to the tv. With this movie, will it send 60fps, or will it not work at all? I would think it should still work.

It'll send out 1080p60, just like Billy Lynn's. What I mentioned above re: 1080p60 is that it's not part of the regular BD encoding spec but any player can output a 1080p60 signal.

Originally Posted by wxman2003

Yep, I like to tinker. with regards to the 203, and this HFR disc, I wonder if I set the player to output 1080p60 and force the player to output in DV, if I will get a 1080p60 DV image instead of a 4K60 HDR10 image? My Amazon Fire Cube will do that with Netflix and Disney since they are sending DV at 60fps via that device, and it recognizes my tv cant do 4K60 DV, and changes it to 1080p60 DV.

Would it still be passing through the true DV layer or just the forced DV tone map being applied to the HDR10 1080p60 image? I've never tried seeing if the DV is still carried over when playing back a 4K disc in 1080p, it still carries the HDR10 metadata for sure. If it still does 1080p DV in that situation for 24p - this is set to HDR Auto, no forcing! - then I see no reason why it wouldn't do the same for a 60p version.

Who knows, maybe the EDID will make it output 1080p60 DV by default if the DV output is the priority at the TV end?

[wxman2003]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It'll send out 1080p60, just like Billy Lynn's. What I mentioned above re: 1080p60 is that it's not part of the regular BD encoding spec but any player can output a 1080p60 signal.


Would it still be passing through the true DV layer or just the forced DV tone map being applied to the HDR10 1080p60 image?

That I don't know with the OPPO. But with Fire Cube in developer's mode, it shows 4K60 DV stream coming into device, and then sending out 1080p60 DV with a bt2020 colorspace to the tv. It also shows the streaming rate and that's 20 to 30 mbps with the 4K stream from Disney and 15 to 20Mbps with Netflix. So I cant even tell the difference as the bit rate remains high and the tv upscaling back to 4K looks great.

[Geoff D]

The great thing with 60p HFR is that you get so much more temporal resolution, so even in 1080p60 it's still going to look stunning. If you offered me a broadcast of fast-moving sports in 4K24 or 1080p60 I'd take the latter every time.

[Geoff D]

PS

Just tried to get the OPPO to output 1080p24 DV from a 4K24 DV disc and it's not having it, even with 1080p Auto set as custom resolution and DV set to forced. It just overrides all that and plays in 4K24 DV. You can't change video rez on the fly when watching DV either, if you press the resolution button you get a message on screen saying it can't be done with DV content.

So, on the OPPO it appears that it'll play DV only in the natively encoded frame rate and resolution that's on the disc, whatever that frame rate and resolution might be.

[wxman2003]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

PS

Just tried to get the OPPO to output 1080p24 DV from a 4K24 DV disc and it's not having it, even with 1080p Auto set as custom resolution and DV set to forced. It just overrides all that and plays in 4K24 DV. You can't change video rez on the fly when watching DV either, if you press the resolution button you get a message on screen saying it can't be done with DV content.

So, on the OPPO it appears that it'll play DV only in the natively encoded frame rate and resolution that's on the disc, whatever that frame rate and resolution might be.

So it going to switch to 4k60 HDR10 if it can't do 4K60 DV.

[Filmmaker]

Ladies and gentlemen, I present Geoff D and wxman2003!