"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Doctorossi]

I think that view is a little naive, Jeff. Were "spoiler" their only objective, I really think they could've done a lot better- yes, even inept, self-defeating Microsoft.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Quite disappointing........and a real shame.

I venture if people were to google his name, they would probably discover that he has spoken at film conferences and such all over the world.
A missed opportunity for those that were online at the time and were aware of the chat.

I wonder if it's because HTF has alienated everyone because of their stance during the HD wars. I know I rarely go there now because of it.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

I think that view is a little naive, Jeff. Were "spoiler" their only objective, I really think they could've done a lot better- yes, even inept, self-defeating Microsoft.

It's not naive at all. It's in MS' best interests.

[Kris Deering]

Microsoft wanted HD DVD to win, heck, they were going to launch the WMV-HD format before the format war even happened. They weren't just looking for a way to kill the formats in general for a downloadable approach. They wanted VC-1 and HDi to succeed and thought they backed the right team in respect to the market and price. They gambled and lost, it happens. Shortcomings of HD DVD and Amir aside, HDi was far more impressive than anything Java brought to the table early on, they may have backed the losing format but they did manage to create some solid code while they were there long before Java even got off the bench.

[Doctorossi]

I guess my issue is with what seems to be an auto-contradictory element in Jeff's post. He describes Microsoft's strategy once they see their involvement in the hardware/packaged media aspect of the market start to erode and I fully agree with Jeff's characterization here. However, he starts by saying he believes Microsoft was always in it to obfuscate and I don't think this is true. If you look at Microsoft's history, their standard approach to a market sector involves an initial attempt at forcing a monopoly, followed by an attempt to confuse the market and re-direct consumers only once their grip on the sector is in jeopardy.

Maybe we're debating a fine distinction on a timeline and it's kind of semantic...

[Esox50]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I wonder if it's because HTF has alienated everyone because of their stance during the HD wars. I know I rarely go there now because of it.

I fall into that category as well. Was a total joke over there...

[Doctorossi]

The Bits alienated a lot of folks back then, too.

[Living Near Shamu]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

The Bits alienated a lot of folks back then, too.

The Digital Bits? How so?

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Living Near Shamu

The Digital Bits? How so?

Voicing a strong editorial opinion in favor of Blu-ray and against HD DVD and also appearing, by way of heavy insider involvement, to be associated with the BDA to a level of journalistic impropriety. This was exacerbated by Bill's frequent availability to be a significant early disseminator of some of the BDA's more blatantly anti-consumer press releases and boastful wartime missives.

[Jeff Kleist]

I think that view is a little naive, Jeff. Were "spoiler" their only objective, I really think they could've done a lot better- yes, even inept, self-defeating Microsoft.

That would be an informed opinion, not speculation

The Bits alienated a lot of folks back then, too.

So how much longer are you going to hang around being a needling, bitter ex-red ant?

He's referring to how we took a stand, and along with BR.com were basically the only sites out there that took a stand, and it pissed off a lot of the red ants who threw a fit and declared jihad, despite the fact that again, it's was an informed opinion, and most of all had the gall to end up being 100% correct (EDIT: See above, which ignores the fact that the Bits has had strong insider ties and advance news of the exact same kind for a decade prior to the format war)

Most of the head red ants were either paid shills whose specialty is running around internet forums driving points of view, or people who liked being part of the in crowd. They're the kind of people you see standing behind the bully on the schoolyard, punctuating what they say with an occasional "yeah!", and when that bully gets its ass kicked, they run behind the kicker and say "see, I'm on your side now! always was!". They were fed selected information by people with an agenda, or at least with leanings, and then fed that out to the community.

[BluDomain]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Voicing a strong editorial opinion in favor of Blu-ray and against HD DVD and also appearing, by way of heavy insider involvement, to be associated with the BDA to a level of journalistic impropriety. This was exacerbated by Bill's frequent availability to be a significant early disseminator of some of the BDA's more blatantly anti-consumer press releases and boastful wartime missives.

Bull, but at least you exposed yourself finally.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Voicing a strong editorial opinion in favor of Blu-ray and against HD DVD and also appearing, by way of heavy insider involvement, to be associated with the BDA to a level of journalistic impropriety. This was exacerbated by Bill's frequent availability to be a significant early disseminator of some of the BDA's more blatantly anti-consumer press releases and boastful wartime missives.

???

Testing, analyzing and reviewing products, then proclaiming a preference is improper? OK.

[Y3k Bug]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

He's referring to how we took a stand, and along with BR.com were basically the only sites out there that took a stand, and it pissed off a lot of the red ants who threw a fit and declared jihad, despite the fact that again, it's was an informed opinion, and most of all had the gall to end up being 100% correct (EDIT: See above, which ignores the fact that the Bits has had strong insider ties and advance news of the exact same kind for a decade prior to the format war)

I don't know how many people you might have "alienated" back then, but you gained at least one fan for taking that stand. I am now a regular reader of The Bits.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

So how much longer are you going to hang around being a needling, bitter ex-red ant?

Uh... I really hope you're not referring to me, Jeff. If you are, with all due respect, you're way off-base. I did not bring up nor provide any opinion on the history I described. I mentioned the fact because it came up in conversation. I know that it is fact because I personally saw it happen.

I don't know how you would get "needling, bitter ex-red ant" out of my mentioning a fact in passing. If you can point me to something I've done which demonstrates these qualities, I will apologize and defer to you, but I think "needling, bitter ex-red ant" describes me about as well as "cloud-hopping, tangerine-colored fairy princess" does.

If you really want me to leave, I'll go, but that would make me pretty sad. If you believe me to be some undead format-soldier with a hidden agenda, you've got me 100% wrong and I've always thought you were a pretty cool guy.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by BluDomain

Bull, but at least you exposed yourself finally.

Did I say it was my opinion?

No. I answered a question about how some people were perceiving The Digital Bits at the time.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

???

Testing, analyzing and reviewing products, then proclaiming a preference is improper? OK.

Did I say it was my opinion?

No. I answered a question about how some people were perceiving The Digital Bits at the time.

[Doctorossi]

Geez. You guys really know how to kill a messenger around here.

Do you really think I'd spend so much time around here if my purpose was to resurrect a year-and-a-half-dead format-war and strike 'one more martyr blow for the good guys!'?

I mean... I may not have much of a life, but that's ridiculous!

[Oliver K]

Seems a few members are a bit late to the format war party

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Did I say it was my opinion?

No. I answered a question about how some people were perceiving The Digital Bits at the time.

I perceived it as such. My mistake.

[Grubert]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Voicing a strong editorial opinion in favor of Blu-ray and against HD DVD and also appearing, by way of heavy insider involvement, to be associated with the BDA to a level of journalistic impropriety. This was exacerbated by Bill's frequent availability to be a significant early disseminator of some of the BDA's more blatantly anti-consumer press releases and boastful wartime missives.

Give me a break. What are those BDA "anti-consumer press releases" and "boastful wartime missives" Bill was disseminating?