Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

As stated before, streaming is just another form of pay TV for me. I have a lot of movies on Prime, Vudu, MA, Fandango, Google, etc. but never watch any via these streamers if I have a BD or UHD BD copy. In several cases my DVD copy is better than my streaming copy.

Same here I ditched pay TV in 2014 and now here in 2020 I use streaming and an over the air antenna in its place. The best part is that I'm only paying for Amazon Prime and that is for the two day shipping perk not for their poorest in quality streaming service. I have never watched a single one of my redeemed digital copies; I watch the blu-ray or 4K disc instead every time.

For the other streaming services, I do what so many people do: I share accounts and that means that I am paying nothing for all of the other services that interest me. Of the 12 people that are nearest to me that use streaming, only 4 of them are actually paying for it. Streaming really is cheap and convenient now!

[cheez avenger]

Here's where you can watch The Abyss (theatrical cut) in HD:

https://www.justwatch.com/us/movie/the-abyss

Here's where you can watch True Lies in HD:

https://www.justwatch.com/us/movie/true-lies

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

The listed options are all $15 per month subscriptions. That's a terrible deal. The option to buy or rent the movie individually apparently doesn't exist.

This seems to be the direction that all studios want: monthly subscriptions for everything. If they succeed than anyone who wants access to a variety of content at all times would have to subscribe to more than a dozen different services and spend an exorbitant amount of money each month.

How can anyone see that as a good thing?

It is if that's the only reason you'd be subscribing to them for. Who would do that? I have HBO as an Add-on to what I normally subscribe to and I do not pay $15 a month just for HBO. Since I do not subscribe to standard cable television, I pick and choose the services I want and actually use. I get more value for my money that way.

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

I'd much rather pick and choose the individual movies and TV shows I want and that's exactly what I do. Anytime I want to watch something in my collection it's always available. When the mood strikes I don't have to look and see if it happens to be available on whatever subscription I happen to have at the time or pay for another subscription if it isn't.

Streaming subscriptions are either cheap (if you only have one at a time) or convenient (if you have a bunch of them), not both.

Sure, as is buying physical media discs a la carte. Just like you find value in that I also find value in the streaming services I subscribe to. Also, as I mentioned a few posts/pages back, I am all for co-existing with digital. I'm working on becoming 4K/Atmos compliant in a few months, so I'm all for that, too. I'm just not going thumb my nose down on digital options.

[Vilya]

Subscription streaming is only a bad thing if it were the only thing and that is not the case. It is essentially no different than pay TV services, except that streaming gives me more flexibility, more options, and for far less money than cable TV ever did.

I can add and delete services at will and I can subscribe to as many or to as few as I want and I save a lot of money compared to cable TV. With streaming, I am only subscribed to the services that I want whereas with cable TV I had to have bundles full of channels that I never wanted in order to get the few channels that I did. Streaming quality generally exceeds that of cable TV, which is mostly just 720p, and it doesn't bombard me with 20 minutes of commercials per viewing hour like TV does.

Any content that I want to own, and to have permanent access to, I buy on physical media the same as I have been doing for 35 years. The main differences are that back then the physical media that I bought was far more expensive and in much lower quality and that I was also subscribed to cable TV. I replaced cable TV with streaming and an antenna, but I have always bought physical media for the titles that I want to own and that will never change.

I had cable TV then for the same reasons that I use streaming now. I do not need to own everything that I watch. There are many movies and TV shows that I want to see, and that I find to be entertaining, but that I do not have any desire to own or to revisit. Cable TV used to serve that function and now streaming and my antenna do so instead.

Sometimes I liked what I watched on cable TV, or via streaming, so much that I bought a copy on physical media afterwards. In these instances, my having cable TV and streaming led to an actual purchase of physical media.

I will only buy content on physical media, but I do not want to own everything that I watch any more than I want to own every song that I hear or every book that I have read. Once is enough for much of it. Purchases on physical media are for those titles that I prize and that I want to own.

[sapiendut]

To me is simple, I don’t want to be stuck in subscribing to multiple streaming services for the rest of my life in order to access the movies I like for the rest of my life.

That and the fact that streaming AV quality is merely acceptable at best. I didn’t spend ten of thousands of dollars building my HT and spend on average another $2-3k a year on upgrading my HT equipment only to obtain “acceptable” quality.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Absolutely. With streaming subscriptions even if a studio stopped making new content you like you'd still be stuck paying every month to access all the good content they made in the past.

I agree with all of that. But more support for streaming or pay TV and less support for physical media means more titles that are exclusively available on streaming or pay TV. That's why I will never support streaming or pay TV.

If something is available on both disc and streaming then why would I bother with streaming? I can easily rent the disc or borrow it from my local library if I'm unsure about it. If something is only available via streaming then it fits the aforementioned trap: ongoing subscription payments for the rest of my life to access it. I will definitely avoid those titles. In either case the result is the same: I won't stream.

I support physical media more than most by buying all of my content in this manner and that will not change. How I rent varies depending upon who offers what, the cost, and the convenience of doing so.

No one is "stuck" with subscription streaming or with pay TV services. I have gone without pay TV services for 6 years now and I often go months without use streaming services. I can add and cancel streaming services at will as my interest in them waxes and wanes.

Before streaming, my options were to watch something that I owned, watch cable TV, or trudge down to the rental store and look for something to rent. The latter could be quite time consuming involving a trip to the store and back and all the time spent searching the store for something worth renting and then another round trip to return it. I don't miss renting movies from stores or borrowing them from libraries; it was a hassle.

Now I have another option: I can stream. I still have two rental stores just 8 miles from my home, but making two round trips to rent something and to later return it is a pain, a waste of time, and a waste of gasoline.

Other than the nuisance of using a rental store, I see little distinction in how I choose to rent, be it with cable TV or with streaming. A rental is a rental is a rental and I only have access to what I rent temporarily no matter where I rent it from. My choices were cable TV or rental store yesteryear and today they are cable TV, streaming, or rental store. I didn't like rental stores then and I do not like them any better now.

There have always been some titles that I could not buy on physical media just like there have always been some things that I could only see on TV or via streaming. There is no good reason to deny myself the pleasure of seeing the content that I want to see. If I love what I watched, then I will buy a copy on disc and if I can't, I will wait and see if I can later, and if it never happens at least I got to see it once and that is infinitely better than never having seen it at all.

Physical media will never offer everything and neither will cable TV or streaming, but by my willingness to use all of them I have the widest selection of content possible.

I'm getting older each day, not younger, and if I want to see something, then I am going to see it, period. That's my choice.

Your choice seems extreme to me and every bit as fanatical as those who make the opposite choice. Boycotting pay TV and streaming is not going to eliminate either one; it will only deny you the opportunity to see a lot of good content. You stand on your principle; this old curmudgeon will be comfortably seated upon his couch watching whatever he wants to see.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

I'd rather ignore content that I can't own rather then have to pay for a subscription every time I want to watch it or even worse be unable to watch it at all later because it has been removed from all streaming services.

I don't want there to ever be any content that I love that I am unable to watch and as long I only watch content on physical media that will never be the case. [Insert streaming exclusive movie or TV show here] may or may not be great, but I'll never know.

I don't want anyone else to ever be unable to access content that they love either. That's why I think it's important that everyone supports physical media: control over availability is in the hands of every single person who owns a physical copy. Nothing can ever be taken away from anyone.

I don't want to own everything that I see, but I wish to see everything that I want.

There will likely always be content that we want to own that we can not buy. I have never known it to be otherwise even before streaming existed.

I support physical media plenty, but foregoing the pleasure of seeing something that isn't available on it does not change that reality. I do not want to live in a state of denial and pretend that there is nothing worth seeing beyond physical media. I never behaved that way before streaming existed and I'm not going to start behaving that way now.

You go right ahead, though.

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I don't want to own everything that I see, but I wish to see everything that I want.

There will likely always be content that we want to own that we can not buy. I have never known it to be otherwise even before streaming existed.

I support physical media plenty, but foregoing the pleasure of seeing something that isn't available on it does not change that reality. I do not want to live in a state of denial and pretend that nothing worth seeing exists beyond physical media. I never behaved that way before streaming existed and I'm not going to start behaving that way now.

You go right ahead, though.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

I can't even keep up with all the great releases on physical media. So why should I bother with anything else?

Because we are not frozen in amber and we don't live in a vacuum. When I learn of an interesting title, be it from family, friends, or this forum, I want to see it. And see it I will.

I could stop buying and renting content right now, even cancel my internet service, and keep myself busy for many years with what I own already, but I do not believe in placing arbitrary limits upon myself or in isolating myself from the world. When I learn of something new that interests me, I am going to see it. I will not confine myself to my library or to just what I can buy. Why would I?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

I've never met anyone who I consistently agreed with about movies or TV shows so recommendations are meaningless. Additionally I prefer to know very little about each movie and TV show I watch (I never watch trailers or read summaries) so it's extremely rare that anything is ever of high interest before I watch it.

I don't want anyone to spoil a movie for me with excessive details, either, and I do not watch very many trailers, but we all learn about new content from somewhere. The difference is that when I learn about a title of interest, even if that interest comes from just a cool sounding title, I am going to see it. That's all there is to it.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

I can't think of a single time when that has come up. There are various streaming-exclusive movies or TV shows that people have mentioned but I barely know anything about them. They therefore have never become "titles of interest".

Here's some examples with my known description (in spoilers):

Birdbox -

[Show spoiler]A movie on Netflix starring Sandra Bullock. I think she wears a blindfold.

Sense8 -

[Show spoiler]A TV show on a streaming service. I think it's sci-fi.

The Boys -

[Show spoiler]A TV show on Amazon. I think it's about superheroes.

Unbelievable -

[Show spoiler]Something on Netflix. I don't even know if its a movie or TV show.

Dark -

[Show spoiler]Something on Netflix. I don't even know if its a movie or TV show.

If you want to isolate yourself and be a movie/TV show hermit, that's another one of your choices. Deliberately keeping yourself unaware is just another form of denial and I'm not moving to that state ever. I'm not keeping myself in the dark about new content.

I am eager to learn about new movies and TV shows without learning so much as to spoil them. When I do learn of new movies and shows that interest me, from whatever source, I see them.

[PenguinInfinity]

I am unaware of what most of the movies and TV shows I buy are about until I watch them too. It's great to watch a movie for the first time and discover the plot as it unfolds.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

I am unaware of what most of the movies and TV shows I buy are about until I watch them too. It's great to watch a movie for the first time and discover the plot as it unfolds.

I love this hobby, but I am not making every buy a blind buy. The occasional blind buy is fun, but renting is a better and more affordable place for taking such risks.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

I used to rent a lot too (discs obviously) but after buying hundreds of Blu-ray movies for $2-$3 each I realized that rentals were no longer a particularly good deal. I also didn't like having a time limit.

I love the occasional bargain, too, but buying "hundreds" of blu-rays for $2-$3 each doesn't do much to support physical media. It sure doesn't motivate the studios to release more content on physical media when you wait for clearance sale prices to buy it. If you are paying these extremely low prices for used discs, that does absolutely nothing to support physical media as the studios make nothing from such sales.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Most of my TV shows were bought for much higher prices, many of them were bought near launch. This is especially true for less popular shows that I fear may forgoe physical releases in the future.

At this point I'm not the least bit worried about the future of movies on physical media so I don't rush out to buy them. If things change I will certainly do my part to support physical media.

Smacks of rationalization to me, sorry.

No matter how you spin it, the less that you pay for titles on physical media is the less that you are supporting it. The less the studios earn from disc sales, the less motivated they are to release more.

Physical media sales are down 63.2% since 2011; I wouldn't take too much longer to show stronger support.

I routinely pay release day prices for discs even though I know full well that they will be much cheaper later. I take advantage of the occasional bargain as I said before, but this is where I take my chances on blind buys, titles of lesser interest, and to do some format upgrades. The majority of my purchases are made at release day prices not only for the immediate gratification, but to demonstrate my support for physical media in the hopes of getting more releases for a very, very long time to come.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Smacks of rationalization to me, sorry.

No matter how you spin it, the less that you pay for titles on physical media is the less that you are supporting it. The less the studios earn from disc sales, the less motivated they are to release more.

Physical media sales are down 63.2% since 2011; I wouldn't take too much longer to show stronger support.

I routinely pay release day prices for discs even though I know full well that they will be much cheaper later. I take advantage of the occasional bargain as I said before, but this is where I take my chances on blind buys, titles of lesser interest, and to do some format upgrades. The majority of my purchases are made at release day prices not only for the immediate gratification, but to demonstrate my support for physical media in the hopes of getting more releases for a very, very long time to come.

Good point. It’s the same with 3D titles. Don’t hang around for the lowest price, support the format by paying full price. If we all did that with 3DFA releases we probably wouldn’t have House Of Wax, Creature From The Black Lagoon, The Mask, The Maze, Inferno, It Came From Outer Space, The Bubble, Parasite, 3D Rarities, etc..

On the topic of Blu-ray purchases, with the exception of catalogue obviously, all my buys are blind. You can’t beat the excitement of a fresh film on movie night. I have a good success ratio of around 90% so it’s worked for me. I read spoiler free reviews at all times and I have often researched the film well in advance. I have watched 10 films so far this year (from my Blu-ray purchases) and I have been very happy with 9 of them.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Vudu's disc 2 digital program requires that you use your phone to scan the barcode on the dvd's package and it MUST be the exact barcode that they want or the conversion does not occur.

One forum member here had a different barcode than I did for our DVD copies of True Lies. His barcode was accepted while mine was rejected. Same movie, but different barcodes. Having the precise barcode that Vudu wants is mandatory for their disc 2 digital conversion program.

I know, I am not disputing that all I am saying is

1) let's look at Night of the living dead 1968 (picked it because I know there are many versions on BD). You can get the Criterion, Forgotten Films,Mill Creek Entertainment... versions from each studio

If Vudu has an agreement with only one of those studios for D2D of their version of the film it is normal that the UPC from the others won't work because Vudu does not have such an agreement with the others

2) even if ll the different versions should be included, the reality is the studio would need to give all the UPCs for the film. when you look at a UPC there is nothing in the # that intrinsically means "true lies". the way UPC works is a company decides to buy a range ( and if they run out they can buy more ranges) and then they associate one of the UPCs with a product. So if a film was released with UPC1 UPC2 and UPC3 it is up to the studio to let Vudu know those three are interchangeable.

It is annoying for the consumer but in either cases I don't see it as Vudu's mistake.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

To me is simple, I don’t want to be stuck in subscribing to multiple streaming services for the rest of my life in order to access the movies I like for the rest of my life.

That and the fact that streaming AV quality is merely acceptable at best. I didn’t spend ten of thousands of dollars building my HT and spend on average another $2-3k a year on upgrading my HT equipment only to obtain “acceptable” quality.

Agree. Also if someone uses their 10 subscription packages every day, then it is cool that they have so much free time, but I don't. At this point in my life there is only 24 h in a day and there is more none streaming stuff I want to do then I have the time for.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

No one is "stuck" with subscription streaming or with pay TV services. I have gone without pay TV services for 6 years now and I often go months without use streaming services. I can add and cancel streaming services at will as my interest in them waxes and wanes.

yes and no. In Dec there was a bad storm and my sister lost her cable (and so internet), they came to my place and took a few films so that they have stuff to watch. If someone stole my identity, emptied my bank accounts, ruined my credit rating, caused my business to close, I would still be able to watch any of the films I have collected over the last decades as I am rebuilding my life. Would someone that only does streaming be able to do the same? In Jan I did not spend one penny on "entertainment" (Tv/films) I feel I could easily agree not to spend any money (or mooch off of someone else) for as many months as anyone here wants to do, would someone that just does streaming/pay TV be able to do the same?

You have a large collection to fall on and I agree someone can change from company X to company Y. But someone that only rents will always need to continue to rent (unless they change to buying)