Sony 2020 TV line-up, with surprise news

[Robert Zohn]

From all of my testing I still prefer turning off Dolby Vision on our UB820s and UB9000s and taking advantage of the HDR Optimizer. Better overall contrast and more detail in the low APL scenes and that's on all OLED TVs and projection systems.

[78deluxe]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

LG's OLED TVs also produce a darker than expected Dolby Vision presentation. Dolby Vision locks out all TVs and all devices from changing any of the settings or adjusting the EOTF/PQ curve.



Sorry to very strongly disagree with your statement in every way.

First, Sony has the best corporate culture of listening to valid suggestions and criticism from respected professionals. I know as I speak with Samsung, LG, Panasonic and Sony product development and engineers very frequently. These company's design, product development, engineering and the senior management work closely with me to put on and get our requests for enhancements and fixes. Sony and LG value my input and I have been very successful in improving the picture quality and overall performance of many TVs over the 16 years of running my annual TV Shootout Evaluation event.

Other than our open email communications and Sony's engineers visits to me at my store and our one-on-one meetings at CES and CEDIA, Sony just invited me to HQ Tokyo to meet with the top engineers on the needs and wants of the premium TV series.

More importantly is that Dolby Vision locks out any change to how they want your TV to look. For low luminance displays, like OLED TVs and projection systems serious video enthusiasts are best served by adding Panasonic's UB820 or the flagship UB9000 so you can take advantage of the proprietary HDR Optimizer.

I've certainly seen Sony take this approach with professionals and the camera products.

As for TVs, they practically invented home 3D worth having. Did they kill it off due to professional feedback?

[Robert Zohn]

Nice to know Sony is also open to suggestions in the camera business too.

All TV manufacturers stopped supporting 3D in 2016.

[Darkmninya]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUs9...ature=youtu.be

10:50



Watch the DV from AG9 and Panasonic. Vincent even says it's so much better on AG9. Even if Dolby Vision has locked some settings, Sony is doing something wrong or just doing something not good compared to LG and Panasonic.

[Robert Zohn]

What Panasonic did is greatly increase the overall peak luminance of LG Display's OLED panel. Panasonic engineered and added heatsinks in the backside of the OLED module to dissipate heat so they can drive the panel harder.

Don't think Vincent was also comparing LG's OLED in this video.

[cirik]

As for Dolby Vision LG vs Sony you can watch below video (starting from 15:20).

LG E9 vs Sony AG9 (A9G) 2019 OLED TV Comparison - YouTube

[Darkmninya]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

What Panasonic did is greatly increase the overall peak luminance of LG Display's OLED panel. Panasonic engineered and added heatsinks in the backside of the OLED module to dissipate heat so they can drive the panel harder.

Don't think Vincent was also comparing LG's OLED in this video.

That's only on gz2000. Gz950 doesn't have that added brightness.

[Robert Zohn]

Thank you @cirik and @Darkmninya. You have proven the point of Sony's A9G presenting Dolby Vision darker than LG's E9. It's minimal, but LG is brighter and I'll try to reproduce that in our showroom and add this to my list of things to discuss with Sony's engineers.

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Thank you @cirik and @Darkmninya. You have proven the point of Sony's A9G presenting Dolby Vision darker than LG's E9. It's minimal, but LG is brighter and I'll try to reproduce that in our showroom and add this to my list of things to discuss with Sony's engineers.

Sony's TV team should get fired for pure incompetence. Maybe that is a little harsh, but seriously how in the world can they leave off HDMI 2.1 off their top of the line OLEDs? When:

a) - Sony is releasing the Playstation 5 this year, which is supposed to utilize many of the HDMI 2.1 features such as VRR and 4K/120 (granted most games wont approach that framerate). How could the TV team have not gotten the memo?

b) - every other major manufacturer will have it ready to in their TVs. You would think that Sony would be pushing HDMI 2.1 harder than all other manufacturers SINCE THEY'RE THE ONES RELEASING A GAMING CONSOLE that would take advantage of those features. But they have completely ceded that to LG, Samsung and now Vizio!

I realize that the Sony's OLEDs aren't aimed at gamers, but there is no doubt of the advantages that OLED gaming provides and many hardcore gamers won't even consider a Sony OLED due to the lack of that feature.

It seems that so far the only Sony TV with HDMI 2.1 will be the 900H.

[Robert Zohn]

Sony's A9H Master Series OLED TV will have HDMI 2.1.

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Sony's A9H Master Series OLED TV will have HDMI 2.1.

I see. All OLEDs should have it. The A8 series is now priced reasonably well.

[Robert Zohn]

I ^ agree, but please remember that HDMI 2.1 is more about 8K than anything we'll need on a 4K TV. The gaming features that are in the HDMI 2.1 spec are already included in Sony's HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 2.1 2020 TVs.

[rroeder]

Originally Posted by REPLAY

I have Aquaman will try. Which setting should I change? Should I go into the HDR settings?

Yes go to picture settings and advanced settings while the TV is in DV mode. I just replicated my HDR10 settings and the picture did look better, there were some funky settings like motionflow was set to custom and the smoothness/clearness sliders were turned up which was making the image darker- I just use True Cinema.

None of the settings were locked on mine like Robert was saying tho so maybe he's referring to more advanced settings for calibration?

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x900f/settings

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by rroeder

Yes go to picture settings and advanced settings while the TV is in DV mode. I just replicated my HDR10 settings and the picture did look better, there were some funky settings like motionflow was set to custom and the smoothness/clearness sliders were turned up which was making the image darker- I just use True Cinema.

None of the settings were locked on mine like Robert was saying tho so maybe he's referring to more advanced settings for calibration?

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x900f/settings

Aye, the Motionflow was on by default when I first played something in Dobly on the ZD9 as well as a few other odd settings, so people need to look past the "Dolby locks your settings" thing because it doesn't do that on Sony TVs at all.

[rroeder]

Overall I'd say the DV titles I've seen might be a little more dim but there are examples of DV titles that are just as bright or brighter, and HDR10 titles that are dim as well.

So is it the TV or the mastering of the discs?

[Robert Zohn]

Sorry it's my mistake, not all of Sony's Dolby Vision settings are locked out. Here's a good explanation and work around to make Dolby Vision brighter.

So they are not locked but there is no way to calibrate or validate DV since Sony uses Profile 5 and there are not any test pattern generators sending that DV mode yet. Here's my calibrators suggests to brighten-up Dolby Vision content.

Select Dolby Vision Dark in the user menu and the content will look slightly brighter and closer to the LG by setting the Advanced Contrast Enhancer ACE to Low in the picture mode menu when DV content is playing. Once set it will apply to all inputs.

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

I ^ agree, but please remember that HDMI 2.1 is more about 8K than anything we'll need on a 4K TV. The gaming features that are in the HDMI 2.1 spec are already included in Sony's HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 2.1 2020 TVs.

HDMI 2.1 offers many things beyond 8K for gamers. It offers 4K/120 Hz at 10-bit color HDR @ 4:4:4 or RGB, while HDMI 2.0 is limited to 4K/60 at 4:2:2 or 8-bit RGB. 4K/120 Hz with 10-bit HDR 4:4:4 requires pretty close to 40GBps, which is well beyond the bandwidth of HDMI 2.0.

HDMI 2.0 VRR is limited to a 40 - 60 fps range.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Sorry it's my mistake, not all of Sony's Dolby Vision settings are locked out. Here's a good explanation and work around to make Dolby Vision brighter.

So they are not locked but there is no way to calibrate or validate DV since Sony uses Profile 5 and there are not any test pattern generators sending that DV mode yet. Here's my calibrators suggests to brighten-up Dolby Vision content.

Select Dolby Vision Dark in the user menu and the content will look slightly brighter and closer to the LG by setting the Advanced Contrast Enhancer ACE to Low in the picture mode menu when DV content is playing. Once set it will apply to all inputs.

I was told the same thing by Sony to rectify the DV grey bars problem, to use the ACE. Only I hate automated contrast adjustment modes because they're always playing catch-up, they just don't react quickly enough to changes in the content so by the time it's altered the contrast to suit one shot it might've cut back to another shot and, true to form, ACE causes noticeable 'pumping' of the brightness on the ZD9. So that's a no from me.

I did try upping the contrast which in turn boosts luminance, but above level 90 - which is the default on the menu slider, though it was set to 100 when Dobly was first activated - then it clips highlight detail more and more. 90 is good for resolving ~4000 nits (verified using DV test patterns) but I can't be arsed to keep adjusting it so I leave it on 91. But with slightly duller luminance in DV comes slightly duller colour volume, so I put Live Color on Low to counteract it. And to correct the grey black bars I set Black Level to 49, it shaves off a tiny fraction of black detail but it's worth it.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I was told the same thing by Sony to rectify the DV grey bars problem, to use the ACE. Only I hate automated contrast adjustment modes because they're always playing catch-up, they just don't react quickly enough to changes in the content so by the time it's altered the contrast to suit one shot it might've cut back to another shot and, true to form, ACE causes noticeable 'pumping' of the brightness on the ZD9. So that's a no from me.

I did try upping the contrast which in turn boosts luminance, but above level 90 - which is the default on the menu slider, though it was set to 100 when Dobly was first activated - then it clips highlight detail more and more. 90 is good for resolving ~4000 nits (verified using DV test patterns) but I can't be arsed to keep adjusting it so I leave it on 91. But with slightly duller luminance in DV comes slightly duller colour volume, so I put Live Color on Low to counteract it. And to correct the grey black bars I set Black Level to 49, it shaves off a tiny fraction of black detail but it's worth it.

I've been reading about that grey bar issue for the longest, but now that I've watched a couple of DV titles myself, I must say I did not notice it. Is it with all DV content or particular titles? Also, I was under the impression it had been resolved a couple of firmware updates ago?

[Geoff D]

All DV content. And nothing changed in the firmware. Watching any kind of normally lit content it won't stand out, but the darker the content gets the more it becomes apparent, and on full field black i.e. a fade or cut to black then it's very apparent when you watch in darkness (no ambient light) as I do, the whole screen stays up instead of dimming down to off. Not every piece of content goes down to total black, true, but when the HDR10 layer on the same disc dims the screen down to off just fine then it's clearly a problem with the actual DV implementation.