Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by SCLee

Hmm... but how does that transition to actual viewing, is the question. When I get my Star Wars set (if I get it, the way it's going), I'm gonna test the bitrates (via the playback button) and see if it actually goes that high. The Disney+ versions look great, more detail, better resolution / colours and finally those new CGI scenes blend it with the old footage. I don't know what to tell you.

If you know where to look you’ll see it right away. The stars when there is any quick panning turns into a blur when compared to the disc. More clear details in the imperial ship in the beginning of ANH when you see the disc vs stream.

It’s not that the streaming is puke inducing, it’s acceptable but the physocal media is more so acceptable than streaming.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Vilya

From the 4K disc of Despicable Me during an actual scene you saw a bitrate reading of 2 mbps? At what time stamp? I have never seen a 4K disc dip that low outside of a near total black screen during a credit roll.

I can't remember but I'll check it out later. What about the highs? Does 30 sound about right to you? It didn't go higher than that and the bitrates were all over the place within the same scene, dropping from 25 to 14 to 8 and rising to 20, 28 etc...

[sapiendut]

PS: if you don’t know where to look, I suggest to NOT learn how to see/find the artifacts. Once you know how to see them as a second nature like myself, there is no way to unsee them.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by SCLee

I can't remember but I'll check it out later. What about the highs? Does 30 sound about right to you? It didn't go higher than that and the bitrates were all over the place within the same scene, dropping from 25 to 14 to 8 and rising to 20, 28 etc...

No, 30 Mbps sounds right for a 4K stream and only from the best streaming services, but not for a 4K disc. What device is giving you this information? Your TV or your 4K disc player? What brand/model of player?

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

If you know where to look you’ll see it right away. The stars when there is any quick panning turns into a blur when compared to the disc. More clear details in the imperial ship in the beginning of ANH when you see the disc vs stream.

It’s not that the streaming is puke inducing, it’s acceptable but the physocal media is more so acceptable than streaming.

I'll get back to you when I have the disc, assuming I get it. The disc will always be better but the question is how much? People seem to treat it like the streaming version is SD compared to a 4K disc. That's not the case and in my experience the difference (between 4K stream and 4K disc) isn't all that great. But yes, disc is better at a premium price.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

From High-Def Digest on 1917 on disc vs stream:

Originally Posted by SCLee

And I hope that's the case. But these reviewers are very, very picky and seem to notice things that us mere mortals don't.

It's good that some reviewers are comparing Disc to Digital, but they don't give the Specs on how they are setup. Like their Streaming Devise, Connection, App, and Bandwidth. We all know that the Bitrate has to remain consistent/stable for good Quality, so the reviewer should put that information.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Vilya

No, 30 Mbps sounds right for a 4K stream and only from the best streaming services, but not for a 4K disc. What device is giving you this information? Your TV or your 4K disc player? What brand/model of player?

Player. Via the remote. Panasonic. DP-UB391.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by SCLee

Reviewers often go over the top with hyperbole and what you actually see isn't that great of a difference.

What is a minor video aberration to one may be very irritating to another. I am a retired audio/video pro, on many occasions I have tried to get various people to see various problems like flicker on computer monitors, mosquito noise in video, quantizing noise, macro blocking, banding, rainbows from 1 chip DLP projectors, etc. In most cases the viewers could never see what I was trying to show them.

The fact that you do not see problems does not mean they are not there. Another factor, many people have no idea of what their eyesight is in reference to a Snellen eye chart (based on a ∠1'). I am very fortunate, with astigmatism correction I have 20-13 L & 20-15 R. I sit further back from my projection screen than recommended because if I move closer I can see the micro-perf holes (for sound).

A recommendation, stop trying to tell others A looks as good as B in a statement. If a person says VHS is just fine by them that is OK. If a person makes a statement that VHS looks almost as good as Blu-ray then, Houston we have a problem.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by SCLee

Player. Via the remote. Panasonic. DP-UB391.

Maybe it's just that film. I'm testing La La Land now (because you've got me wondering) It's 44 mbps, now 25 mbps, now 37, 41, 12, 17, 24, 51, 21, 15, 18, 20, 16, 17, 20, 25.... within the same scene. The scene where Gosling is lying down and then goes to pick up Emma after she goes home. 1 hr 32.

If you own this, let me know if yours is the same.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

What is a minor video aberration to one may be very irritating to another. I am a retired audio/video pro, on many occasions I have tried to get various people to see various problems like flicker on computer monitors, mosquito noise in video, quantizing noise, macro blocking, banding, rainbows from 1 chip DLP projectors, etc. In most cases the viewers could never see what I was trying to show them.

A recommendation, stop trying to tell others A looks as good as B in a statement. If a person says VHS is just fine by them that is OK. If a person makes a statement that VHS looks almost as good as Blu-ray then, Houston we have a problem.

Oh yes, I have no doubt of this and of course the size of the screen and viewing distance matters too. Honestly, I'm not trying to tell people anything, they are free to think whatever they like. I am only sharing my experience of streaming vs. disc, what else could I do? I have no idea what you're seeing. I have three people in the house and none of them have complained about streaming artifacts etc... compared to disc. I just think some people are overly picky, certainly in regards to 4K reviewers.

I have to go, I'll get back to anyone who responds later.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

It's good that some reviewers are comparing Disc to Digital, but they don't give the Specs on how they are setup. Like their Streaming Devise, Connection, App, and Bandwidth. We all know that the Bitrate has to remain constant for good Quality, so the reviewer should put that information.

Bitrates are variable, not constant. If you meant that with streaming that you need a stable internet/server connection, that is beyond obvious and any professional reviewer evaluating streaming's performance would make certain that their connection was optimal.

Some reviewers state what equipment they use and others do not; you can always inquire in the case of the latter.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by SCLee

Maybe it's just that film. I'm testing La La Land now (because you've got me wondering) It's 44 mbps, now 25 mbps, now 37, 41, 12, 17, 24, 51, 21, 15, 18, 20, 16, 17, 20, 25.... within the same scene. The scene where Gosling is lying down and then goes to pick up Emma after she goes home. 1 hr 32.

If you own this, let me know if yours is the same.

I only have that title on blu-ray, so I can't do a comparison.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I only have that title on blu-ray, so I can't do a comparison.

Alita BA.
Die Hard.
Casino.
It's a Wonderful Life.
Wizard of Oz.
Iron Man.
Jurassic Park.
Star Trek 1. JJ.

Any of those?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by SCLee

Oh yes, I have no doubt of this and of course the size of the screen and viewing distance matters too. Honestly, I'm not trying to tell people anything, they are free to think whatever they like. I am only sharing my experience of streaming vs. disc, what else could I do? I have no idea what you're seeing. I have three people in the house and none of them have complained about streaming artifacts etc... compared to disc. I just think some people are overly picky, certainly in regards to 4K reviewers.

I have to go, I'll get back to anyone who responds later.

It is not about being "overly picky"; if we see the artifacting we can not unsee it. It is great if you don't see any flaws, but once you do they are always noticeable.

Even with seeing the flaws, how much one cares will vary with each person. Despite the flaws, I still use streaming, but for titles that I want to own I must have the disc without question.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by SCLee

Alita BA.
Die Hard.
Casino.
It's a Wonderful Life.
Wizard of Oz.
Iron Man.
Jurassic Park.
Star Trek 1. JJ.

Any of those?

I have the titles that I bolded on 4K disc.

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by alchav21

It's good that some reviewers are comparing Disc to Digital, but they don't give the Specs on how they are setup. Like their Streaming Devise, Connection, App, and Bandwidth. We all know that the Bitrate has to remain constant for good Quality, so the reviewer should put that information.

UGH

What's the point? Somebody like me already put my 800 mbps down 50 mbps up wired connection as my spec and you still claim that there is something wrong with my system simply because you don't see artifacts on your screen while I see artifacts on mine.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

UGH

What's the point? Somebody like me already put my 800 mbps down 50 mbps up wired connection as my spec and you still claim that there is something wrong with my system simply because you don't see artifacts on your screen while I see artifacts on mine.

It's because your internet service isn't symmetrical.

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by Vilya

It's because your internet service isn't symmetrical.

Gaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!!!!!!!

[SCLee]

Okay, so I checked Better Call Saul on Netflix. I was wrong, it is in UHD and it's running at 7.6 mbps.

Hopefully someone here has Netflix. If so, please check out season 3, episode 10 (the start of the episode) and you will see that lowlight scene... with the tent, what's wrong with it? It looks fine to me, and Kim's face after the credits is very detailed and it doesn't look like there's a huge drop in quality, if at all. The back and white sequence at the opening of the pilot looks great. Maybe it's just me, but it still looks excellent.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I have the titles that I bolded on 4K disc.

Thanks, I'll check one of those from the beginning of the film and we can compare. It's like Christmas