Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Question for the UB820/9000 community

SClee on a another thread was showing UHD BD media being played with much lower bitrate that what the typical spec. See images under spoiler. Is that normal for his two more reasonable Panasonic players models to be showing? I see UHD BD's being played back usually something between 55 Mbps to 85 Mbps bitrate (combined) most of the time on dual layer, triple layer can go higher. (110 Mbps on some media at times)

He uses Panasonic DP-UB391 and a Panasonic DMP-UB300

Putting the overriding issue to one side, I just want to say first that it's COMPLETELY false that dual layers peak at 85 Mb/s and triple layers peak at 110 Mb/s, they both have exactly the same peak bitrates available to them because it's the 33GB layers that dictate the read speeds, not how many of them you have. Man, that wiki page has got to be updated.

So they can use up to 128 Mb/s for the transport stream and 144 Mb/s for the total stream, with momentary buffer overruns allowing them to go even higher than that (Little Mermaid's video encode on the UHD hits 150 Mb/s at one point!). Though the inner 8% of each 33GB layer uses a slower RPM so as not to exceed audible drive tolerances for noise, for that inner portion it uses the default transfer rate of up to 109 Mb/s. Just FYI.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Turn off secondary audio, stat.

I don't think it's ever been on as I know it causes issues. True HD is coming through, but not Atmos whether it's on a disc or Netflix.

I'll try plugging the player directly into the receiver to see if it helps.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

it's COMPLETELY false that dual layers peak at 85 Mb/s and triple layers peak at 110 Mb/s.

I didn't specifically name bitrate maxes did I? Just mentioning what you usually encounter when playing media. What got me thinking about triple layer being a bit higher was some media played that peaked above 100 Mb/s. The IMAX South Pacific BD-66 disk scored a very high bitrate peaks at 110 Mb/s if you need something to test with.

Nice that you are around.

I see UHD BD's being played back usually something between 55 Mbps to 85 Mbps bitrate (combined) most of the time on dual layer, triple layer can go higher. (110 Mbps on some media at times)

[IntelliVolume]

FilmFan:

I tried those Tone Curve and System Gamma settings you suggested before throwing in the 4K disc of The Fate of the Furious, and I didn't really see much reduction, if at all, with the horrible light blooming in the letterbox areas of the screen (I suspected I wouldn't, because I'm still dealing with an edge-lit display, but figured it was worth a shot). I'll try again with some other titles, though...

A couple of things: What is the 9000's abilities with regard to the resume playback functionality? It seems to remember when you press STOP during DVD playback, and then press PLAY again, picking up where you left off, but the unit doesn't seem to remember where you left off on a disc if it's ejected and then played the next day (my Oppo BDP-83 and Cambridge CXUHD both allowed for this with DVD and certain Blu-rays)...is this normal?

It also doesn't seem to remember where a Blu-ray leaves off, at ALL, and this concerns me because it's a feature I got used to with previous players; last night, we watched a regular Blu-ray rental of Richard Jewell, which is a Warner Bros. title (Warner titles on Blu, in the past on my other players, always allowed me to pick up where I left off if I pressed STOP and then put the disc in the next evening), and when I pressed STOP at one point because we needed to take a break to make some popcorn, the player went to the "Ultra HD Blu-ray" logo screen -- but when I pressed PLAY from that point, it re-loaded the disc and went back to the beginning, to the trailers. This was annoying, as I needed to re-select the language and then find the scene we were up to in the chapter menu.

Does the UB9000 remember stop playback points when you resume a Blu-ray? What about when either a Blu-ray or DVD are removed from the player after being stopped in the middle...will it remember where you left off when loading it next time? Is there a setting somewhere in the setup that adjusts this (on the Oppo and Cambridge it was called "Resume Play: ON")?

I realize that some Blu-rays, depending on how they're authored, will return you to the setup menu upon playback the next time the disc is in the player (such as Marvel films) where you can select "Resume: Yes/No," but I'm talking about titles that don't do this, such as Warner Bros. releases...

Also: What is the deal with the BD-Video Data Clear feature on this thing? You HAVE to use a USB drive to dump the data? On previous Oppos and even the Cambridge CXUHD, the Persistent Storage allowed you to dump the data internally by just clearing it out -- the Panasonic doesn't do this? How are you to know when the data has built up and needs to be removed...will the unit get slow in responding?

And is there a way to disable the home screen from going dim after five minutes? Is there an override setting for this?

[IntelliVolume]

I stumbled across this when I was doing some Googling....

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

The Panasonic DP-UB9000 has 1Gbps (1,000Mbps) Ethernet port just like the OPPO UDP-203/UDP-205 and the latest Pioneer UDP-LX500 (Sony Blu-ray players only offer up to 100Mbps Ethernet). Like all existing in production Blu-ray players on the market the flagship Panasonic DP-UB9000 lacks 1GB of internal storage for BD-LIVE, and to use the BD-LIVE feature an external USB drive 1GB or larger is required (OPPO Blu-ray players when they were still made offer 1GB of internal storage for BD-LIVE). The external USB drive is useful for resume play and bookmarks on certain Blu-ray discs released.

I suppose this answered my question (unless someone else has other information)...does the USB drive control resume play and bookmarks? If so, how exactly does this work?

Addendum:

Found this in one of the online manuals floating around for the UB820 (I assume it's the same for the UB9000):

Press [∫STOP].

The stopping point is memorized.

Resume play function Press [1PLAY] to restart from this point.

The point is cleared if the media is removed. ≥On BD-Video discs including BD-J, the resume play function does not work.

Okay -- so the player DOESN'T remember stop points on ANY media once a disc is removed, and doesn't remember resume points for Blu-ray AT ALL...

Another disappointing feature, as we used the resume function all the time on our Oppo BDP-83 and Cambridge CXUHD (stopping a disc because it was getting too late and then picking up with it the next day).

Can anyone confirm if their 820 or 9000 indeed behave this way? I think FilmFan once told me that he/she gets a "Resume Playback" message after nearly every disc is removed and then put in again...

[chip75]

Not sure why the resume function isn't working, I've used Warner Bros. discs, Disney UHDs and FOX UHDs and they all resume (the WB BDs just start up in the same place) with my budget 420.

Are you hard stopping? if you long press or press twice it wipes the resume data. I'd try powering down and resuming with the PLAY button to see if that helps.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

I didn't specifically name bitrate maxes did I? Just mentioning what you usually encounter when playing media. What got me thinking about triple layer being a bit higher was some media played that peaked above 100 Mb/s. The IMAX South Pacific BD-66 disk scored a very high bitrate peaks at 110 Mb/s if you need something to test with.

Nice that you are around.

Fair point about not mentioning peaks as such but why write "triple layer can go higher"? If you knew this beforehand it makes zero sense that you'd differentiate between the two like that, I've seen loads of UHD66 discs peak at over 100 Mb/s. But hey, it's still worth mentioning for people who might be unaware that the two can do exactly the same bitrates. Just in case, like...

[edit]

Though I see you posted the "UHD specs" in that other thread in which you also mention these incorrect figures, I mean you don't refer to them as peak bitrates but what else could you be referring to? lol

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by chip75

Not sure why the resume function isn't working, I've used Warner Bros. discs, Disney UHDs and FOX UHDs and they all resume (the WB BDs just start up in the same place) with my budget 420.

Are you hard stopping? if you long press or press twice it wipes the resume data. I'd try powering down and resuming with the PLAY button to see if that helps.

Yep, the Blu/UHD discs from the studios you've mentioned plus Lionsgate plus Universal usually have a disc-led resume feature that stores it in the player's persistent memory even when the disc is removed. Paramount are the worst though, they don't author any disc-led resume on their platters and because they use BD-J it won't let the player use its own 'soft' resume either. Press stop on a Paramount disc and even if it's kept inside the player it'll play as if you've only just put the disc in. Gah.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by chip75

I popped in a UHD with the FOX studio logo at the start of the disc and it hits 75Mbps.

Not sure if cables will help, I can imagine you'd get drop-outs if they were the issue. Hopefully they will. Your TV's HDMI inputs are set to enhanced (or is under it under the Deep Colour setting you mentioned?)?

There seems to be only deep colour and no enhanced setting.

I'll try the new HDMI cables.
I've also sent a tweet to Panasonic but they're only there Mon - Fri.
If I can't get to the bottom of it maybe I'll have to buy new players, different makes

Both the UB391 and the UB450 aren't that old, six months maybe.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yep, the Blu/UHD discs from the studios you've mentioned plus Lionsgate plus Universal usually have a disc-led resume feature that stores it in the player's persistent memory even when the disc is removed. Paramount are the worst though, they don't author any disc-led resume on their platters and because they use BD-J it won't let the player use its own 'soft' resume either. Press stop on a Paramount disc and even if it's kept inside the player it'll play as if you've only just put the disc in. Gah.

Hey Geoff, John wrote that you have two Panasonic players, are you seeing the issue? I don't suppose you are or you would have said something. Any idea what could be causing it? Thanks.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

A earlier example was also from their UB820/824 thread on 10-20-18



So there could be a bugl that might have been resolved or not via FW?

In your opinion, do you think the bitrate is correct, yet displaying incorrectly? Or is the bitrate incorrect? Is there a way of knowing? Thanks.

From my POV, there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the picture. SD looks a lot worse than HD and 4K HDR looks better than HD. Disc looks better than streaming but it isn't night and day. It's really annoying if the PQ has been compromised for months to years and many of Panasonic's customers could have the same problem, without knowing about it!

[Geoff D]

I remember this from a while back, the image quality is 100% as it should be, it's the bitrate meter itself that was grossly under-representing the bitrate. I say was because I thought it was corrected with a firmware update, are any of your affected players up to date?

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I remember this from a while back, the image quality is 100% as it should be, it's the bitrate meter itself that was grossly under-representing the bitrate. I say was because I thought it was corrected with a firmware update, are any of your affected players up to date?

No, they won't be as I don't have wif-fi in them. I'll have to connect them with an Ethernet cable and update the firmware. Did you experience the same issue?

Thanks Geoff I'm glad I ordered the new HDMI cables anyway as they're premium certified for Dolby Vision and HDR10. Might make a difference...

The UB391 is only six months old and has the issue. I'm not sure if the 450 does as they've removed the playback info button - probably because of this!

[Geoff D]

I looked at Vilya's post about what the bitrate meter on his OPPO is showing at any given time during Alita, I haven't got time to go through each one but I looked at the one he did at 23 seconds in.

Here's his shot from the OPPO. Bitrate is showing as 59.5 Mb/s, that's including the video and main audio stream.



Here's a shot from the Panasonic 820 at roughly the same point, note that the video and audio bitrates are presented separately on the Panny info screen. Add them together 56.3 + 3.2 = 59.5 which is precisely what the OPPO is showing.



So whatever problem there was with the Panny bitrate meter has been fixed on the later models, and probably via firmware on the earlier ones too. But if you have internet access you can update the firmware, you can download it from here https://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com...s/bd/download/, put it onto a USB stick and update the player(s) that way.

But SCLee, I do just wanna say that it's still very common for disc-based bitrates to go very VERY low during periods of inactivity on-screen, that's literally just how interframe compression works, and indeed smart compression practices in general: you reduce the bitrate for less busy scenes and ramp it up for the hectic moments, e.g. you don't need 60 Mb/s for end credits! So if something has an advertised average bitrate (where the whole stream is analysed and the average derived from collating all those points) then it won't just pootle along at that fixed bitrate for the entire feature, it's always on the move, up or down.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by chip75

I don't think it's ever been on as I know it causes issues. True HD is coming through, but not Atmos whether it's on a disc or Netflix.

I'll try plugging the player directly into the receiver to see if it helps.

I think secondary audio is on by default on the Pannys? If you haven't actually double checked it then please do. How were you connecting it before though?

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I looked at Vilya's post about what the bitrate meter on his OPPO is showing at any given time during Alita, I haven't got time to go through each one but I looked at the one he did at 23 seconds in.

Here's his shot from the OPPO. Bitrate is showing as 59.5 Mb/s, that's including the video and main audio stream.

[Show spoiler]]

Here's a shot from the Panasonic 820 at roughly the same point, note that the video and audio bitrates are presented separately on the Panny info screen. Add them together 56.3 + 3.2 = 59.5 which is precisely what the OPPO is showing.

[Show spoiler]

So whatever problem there was with the Panny bitrate meter has been fixed on the later models, and probably via firmware on the earlier ones too. But if you have internet access you can update the firmware, you can download it from here https://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com...s/bd/download/, put it onto a USB stick and update the player(s) that way.

But SCLee, I do just wanna say that it's still very common for disc-based bitrates to go very VERY low during periods of inactivity on-screen, that's literally just how interframe compression works, and indeed smart compression practices in general: you reduce the bitrate for less busy scenes and ramp it up for the hectic moments, e.g. you don't need 60 Mb/s for end credits! So if something has an advertised average bitrate (where the whole stream is analysed and the average derived from collating all those points) then it won't just pootle along at that fixed bitrate for the entire feature, it's always on the move, up or down.

Geoff, I want to thank you for this and I really appreciate your help. I never thought of downloading it to an SD card and using a USB stick. Thanks again and have a good day. Stay safe.

It's fine that the bitrate is dropping and rising, as long as it's giving the correct reading

[SCLee]

Unfortunately it didn't work. I added the latest firmware and according to the UB391 player it has updated but the bitrate is still low.

It was odd how the player updated the firmware. It switched itself off, started flashing red on and off very fast and then flashed red three times, stopping and repeating to indicate that it was done.

However, according to the instructions on the link you provided, it should switch itself off, restart and then install the firmware, before switching itself off and flashing as above. It didn't do this yet the player says it has the recent version.

Regardless, sadly it made no difference. If I try the SD card again now it reads it as a USB stick, photos etc... and not a firmware update.

[Geoff D]

If it's now on the latest one then yeah, the meter is borked on that model I guess.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

If it's now on the latest one then yeah, the meter is borked on that model I guess.

I'm updating the old UB300 now. It will be odd if that doesn't work either as it has quite a few updates from the 104 version I'm on, all the way to 182.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by SCLee

I'm updating the old UB300 now. It will be odd if that doesn't work either as it has quite a few updates from the 104 version I'm on, all the way to 182.

I think the update might have knackered the player. It has a red light flashing constantly and it won't turn on. What a pile of rubbish Panasonic 4K players are. Not just because of this, because of the bitrate reading issue, which isn't fixed with a firmware update. I'll be buying Sony or LG in future.

I also won't be updating the firmware any more as it's too risky. The players work without the updates so it's not necessary. If the picture is right then the bitrate reading doesn't matter, especially as they've removed the playback info button from newer models. No doubt because they are aware of the issue that they don't seem to be able to fix.