Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

The censorship is disappointing with Splash because there isn't any Blu-ray release,

There are releases of Splash on blu-ray, but they all appear to be out of print, but they remain available for somewhat elevated prices. There are releases in Australia, Brazil, and Mexico.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Splash-Blu-ray/65605/

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Splash-Blu-ray/105878/

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Splash-Blu-ray/69623/

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Welcome back, Octagon!

I am happy to see someone other than myself else post walls of text here.

Personally, I detest censorship, editing, revisionism, whatever word one prefers to use for it, no matter where it is manifested: streaming, broadcast TV, or cable TV.

I certainly enjoy extended director cuts and alternate cuts so long as the original theatrical version is also offered.

While physical media endures and provides me with such content in an unalterable form, I am not overly alarmed with how TV and streaming services censor, or edit, the content that they offer. As you have indicated, broadcast and cable TV have altered content for decades; this isn't exactly a new practice. I don't like it, but I still have access to my discs, so I am not quite ready to just yet.

We are at blu-ray.com and the sky is always falling here.

Where have you been? Watching Twin Peaks finally?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Where have you been? Watching Twin Peaks finally?

I have had pesky "real world" matters to deal with.

I have been watching documentaries such as Jerusalem: Center Of The World DVD and The Life of Muhammad Blu-ray, both from PBS. I haz been trying to edumacate myself a little.

Last night I watched The Straight Story DVD and The Monster (Il Mostro) DVD. I enjoyed all four of these titles.

I still have to start my Star Wars and Game Of Thrones marathons. Twin Peaks is on that list, too. I have so much here to watch that I never know what flight of fancy I will embark upon next.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by alchav21

The Studios control their content, so the only reason Disney+ can manipulate their content is because they own it. Stand alone Streaming Providers get their content from the Studios, if they want to change anything they have to go back to the Studio. So the Studios could change anything they want, even on Discs they haven't released.

Some of us believe that once content is released no one should be allowed to edit it.
If I sit down to watch a movie I have seen before, I am looking for that particular experience, if it is edited the experience will be different.

Now don't get me wrong, I will often buy director 's cuts and extended cuts.... but that is my choice. sometimes I want the 3H experience of a LOTR film and sometimes I want the 4H experience of the extended cuts but which ever one I watch depends on what experience I want.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

Some of us believe that once content is released no one should be allowed to edit it.
If I sit down to watch a movie I have seen before, I am looking for that particular experience, if it is edited the experience will be different.

Famous artists have been know to alter paintings after first displayed.

Before and after: X-ray paintings by Picasso, Van Gogh to reveal their surprising stories -ABC.net

You guys seem to think that viewing a early work from a particular studio is sacred and should not be altered. That decision is still the studio and directors choice if they don't like parts of a film that they feel wasn't acceptable in current times.

No matter how much todays social media complains, a film experience can change as time goes on, because technology improves enough to make possible what the artists that put together a film didn't have at the time.

Films are not like paintings hanging on a wall where they are frozen in their individual presentation/perspective. They are very complicated examples of art where they endeavor to tell the story as best they can, and like with artists example they can be subject to revisiting the work to improve it in different ways. Scenes added or removed.

Respect all the artists out there, its their environment you are being highly critical of, they are just trying their best, like it or not.

Please note this is not about any kind to censorship for particular regional audiences.

[Wendell R. Breland]

IMHO, some changes can be good, the Atmos track on Blade Runner and Fifth Element = good, the complete change of the music track for Underworld (UHD BD) = bad, the monotonic 5.1 Emerald Forest, Cat People, etc. from Dolby Surround = really bad.

“It is best not to piss down my back and try to convince me it’s raining.” Never works!!

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

No one ever has to replace the disc they already own with a new one.

Oh yeah, how many "the 5th element" disks have you bought?

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

One.

Well there are forum people that have bought and rebought with each new release of this movie because its such a cult favorite. So for someone to only have one edition its a bit uncommon.

Of all the discs I have owned this is the movie that gets bought and rebought with each new release.

Yes, Fifth Element is one you have to re buy for each new format so here's yet another purchase of this movie. It was released on VHS, Laserdisc and DVD originally, then the Superbit DVD, original Blu ray which was botched up, then a remastered Blu ray. I don't have the VHS anymore, I have the original DVD, Laserdisc, Japan Laserdisc with the awesome cover, Superbit DVD and remaster Blu ray, whenever I get a player I'll add the UHD version too I'm sure.

So I am not kidding. Its been used as a demo material for quite some time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vjs...ature=youtu.be

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Oh yeah, how many "the 5th element" disks have you bought?

1 LaserDisc
1 DVD
2 Blu-ray
1 UHD Blu-ray

Have done this for several titles and in most cases I got either better sound and/or picture. But in some cases it went the other way and I learned the hard way not to sell, donate, etc. my current version till I checked out the new version.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

1 LaserDisc
1 DVD
2 Blu-ray
1 UHD Blu-ray

Have done this for several titles and in most cases I got either better sound and/or picture. But in some cases it went the other way and I learned the hard way not to sell, donate, etc. my current version till I checked out the new version.

Never got the Laserdisc, but 1 dvd, 1 Superbit, 2 Blu-ray, and 1 UHD has me at 5. In fact, it was the first movie on dvd I ever bought back in the day.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by gotmule

Never got the Laserdisc, but 1 dvd, 1 Superbit, 2 Blu-ray, and 1 UHD has me at 5. In fact, it was the first movie on dvd I ever bought back in the day.

I think it was the same for me. Its was one of the earliest DVD titles I had. I skipped the mastered in 4K sony BD (2nd from right), but I had 6 of them, if including the VHS just before DVD's hit.

[Show spoiler]

Interesting enough this title could be thought of a indicator to the quality of video though the years.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

I think it was the same for me. Its was one of the earliest DVD titles I had. I skipped the mastered in 4K sony BD (2nd from right), but I had 6 of them, if including the VHS just before DVD's hit.

[Show spoiler]

Interesting enough this title could be thought of a indicator to the quality of video though the years.

It has certainly helped sell a lot of displays and surround sound systems over the years. I remember buying my 238 lb 36” Sony XBR because this was playing on it. The salesperson didn’t even realize that there was nudity in one scene even though he had the movie playing on repeat right up front as customers walked in.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

It's a moot point if they release everything on physical media. If uncensored versions remain available to purchase then I don't care what studios do with the latest version. The censorship is disappointing with Splash because there isn't any Blu-ray release, but at least everyone will always be able to buy the uncensored version on DVD whether Disney continues to support it or not. When (not if, but when) movies and TV shows that are exclusively available via streaming are edited then the originals will be lost.

If we're going to define censorship so broadly as to encompass property owners altering their own stuff I submit that 'uncensored disc' is far more often than not something of an oxymoron. I certainly can't point to any numbers but my (reasonably educated) guess is that the overwhelming majority of home video releases have been altered in some form or another.

So we're not really talking about 'censored' and 'uncensored' versions so much as we're talking about 'differently censored' versions.

Which I will grant is in some ways a distinction without a difference but I feel it's worth noting if only because it takes a little of the 'oomph' out of this particular application of the c-word.

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

No company or individual should ever have full control over every copy of a particular movie or TV show. With streaming, companies have that control; with physical media, they don't.

I'm not unsympathetic to this. If given the choice between more control and less control I'll almost choose the former. That's the primary reason I still prefer CDs. Ripping them isn't that much trouble and I can put them on any device I want. Or any device I can figure out, anyway

Originally Posted by Anthony P

Some of us believe that once content is released no one should be allowed to edit it.

No one should be allowed? That's fairly strong. It seems to go well beyond mere moral suasion or voting with ones wallet. What kind of enforcement mechanisms do those of you who believe this advocate to ensure that no one is allowed to edit things that have already been released?

Originally Posted by Anthony P

If I sit down to watch a movie I have seen before, I am looking for that particular experience, if it is edited the experience will be different.

I honestly don't mean this sarcastically or snarkily: kudos for being honest about your motivation.

'I wanted something else' is a perfectly valid reason to not like edited or altered versions of this, that or the other thing. I didn't like New Coke and I really don't like the Special Edition of the Original Star Wars films.

But that said, if we're going to go beyond 'I don't like this' or 'I'm not going to buy this' and say that changes should not be allowed don't we have to come up with something a little more compelling than 'it's not exactly how I want it'?

At least the 'moral rights of artists' crowd can hang their hat on something beyond 'I don't like the changes'. Don't get me wrong, I don't find the moral rights of artists argument all that compelling but it is an argument.

And to be clear, I don't necessarily believe the property rights of the owners are absolute. The people/entities that own films, particularly those that own significant film libraries, do have at least some ethical/moral obligation to be responsible stewards of those properties.

Can I envision some extreme hypothetical under which the public might have a legitimate interest in telling property owners 'no, sorry, you may not do this to your own stuff'? Sure.

But barring that I'm (obviously) in the camp that thinks property owners should be allowed to do whatever they want with their own stuff.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by gotmule

I remember buying my 238 lb 36” Sony XBR because this was playing on it.

Damn, those were good TVs. A 36" Vega (or do you say Wega?) was the first TV I spent real money on (~$2500 in '99) and it was worth every penny.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Should studios be allowed to modify their movies? Yes.
Should studios modify the movies they've already sold? No.
Should studios be able to prevent people from buying the previous versions of their movies? No.

Physical media adheres to all three of those:
I can buy the latest version of each movie.
I can stick with a previous version I already own.
Or I can buy a used copy of a previous version.

While I am glad people can collect physical media, with a particular version. People buying disks have no further involvements with a studio or content owners legalities. Only that they acquired something before some third party demanded it to be changed.

Example: Settlement reached in ‘Devil’s Advocate’ case

The deal, reached with sculptor Frederick Hart Thursday, allows 475,000 copies of the pic to move through video stores on a rental basis without any edits. But the studio will have to makes the cuts before it releases the video for sale. In addition, any TV screening of the pic will have to be cut to conform with the agreement.

Warner Bros. was forced into the settlement after a federal judge in Virginia ruled that Hart was likely to succeed with his claim that a key prop from the movie was based on his masterpiece “Ex Nihilo.”

Hart’s signature sculpture dominates the entrance to the Episcopal National Cathedral in Washington — the sixth-largest gothic cathedral in the world. The Cathedral Foundation, which jointly owns the copyright with Hart, was also a party to the lawsuit against Warner Bros.

Before

[Show spoiler]

After

[Show spoiler]

I was fortunate to buy the original DVD before all this, which the devil brought a complicated statue to life depicting a orgy, where that scene was edited out which changed the film significantly at a critical point in the film. The reworked BD has a unrated, where the original film was R rated on the back.

Stuff happens.

[Steedeel]

Watched Aquaman 3D last night and I think it’s a tragedy of epic proportions that 3D is slowly fading away. Boy, the 3D didn’t half enhance the film. Super depth and several instances of negative Parallax.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Watched Aquaman 3D last night

Have but have not watched the following in 3-D. Do you have any of these and if so, which one are the best at 3-D?

Blade Runner 2049 3D
Everest 3DP
Exodus: Gods And Kings 3D
The Hobbit: The Battle Of The Five Armies 3D
Ice Age: Continental Drift 3D
It Came From Outer Space 3D
Monsters University 3D
Priest 3D
Thor: The Dark World 3DP
Thor: Ragnarök 3DP
Transformers: Dark Of The Moon - 3D
Wonder Woman 3D

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Have but have not watched the following in 3-D. Do you have any of these and if so, which one are the best at 3-D?

Blade Runner 2049 3D
Everest 3DP
Exodus: Gods And Kings 3D
The Hobbit: The Battle Of The Five Armies 3D
Ice Age: Continental Drift 3D
It Came From Outer Space 3D
Monsters University 3D
Priest 3D
Thor: The Dark World 3DP
Thor: Ragnarök 3DP
Transformers: Dark Of The Moon - 3D
Wonder Woman 3D

Blade Runner: 3D was average. Good depth in a few shots but not consistently. Cinematography didn’t really lend itself to outstanding 3D. 3/5

Everest: impressive depth at times, especially with shots at night showing the mountain in the distance. The 3D could and should have been pushed further though. It’s good solid 3D but it didn’t blow me away. 4/5

Hobbit (Five Armies) Excellent 3D transfer, super depth and separation. A couple of pop outs but it’s mostly about depth. 5/5

It Came From Outer Space: super transfer. Exceptional depth and a handful of superb pop outs including falling boulders! 5/5

Thor Dark World: one of the weakest Marvel efforts. Depth is just ok and I forgot it was even in 3D at times which is always a bad thing! 2/5

Thor Ragnorak: very strong 3D. Super depth and separation. Enhances the film no end.
5/5

Wonder Woman: again, superb depth. Several pop outs but the depth blew me way. Really enhances Wonder Woman’s home world with almost infinite backgrounds and super separation. 5/5

Haven’t seen the rest.

I would say ICFOS and Wonder Woman are the absolute best with Hobbit and Ragnorak just a small fraction behind.

All four are reference in my opinion. I’m only putting those two ahead because of a couple of standout sequences.

Film wise I enjoyed Wonder Woman the most if you are interested.

Can’t remember if I told you but Gravity and The Walk are also essential 3D films.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Famous artists have been know to alter paintings after first displayed.

Before and after: X-ray paintings by Picasso, Van Gogh to reveal their surprising stories -ABC.net

You guys seem to think that viewing a early work from a particular studio is sacred and should not be altered. That decision is still the studio and directors choice if they don't like parts of a film that they feel wasn't acceptable in current times.

No matter how much todays social media complains, a film experience can change as time goes on, because technology improves enough to make possible what the artists that put together a film didn't have at the time.

Films are not like paintings hanging on a wall where they are frozen in their individual presentation/perspective. They are very complicated examples of art where they endeavor to tell the story as best they can, and like with artists example they can be subject to revisiting the work to improve it in different ways. Scenes added or removed.

Respect all the artists out there, its their environment you are being highly critical of, they are just trying their best, like it or not.

Please note this is not about any kind to censorship for particular regional audiences.

there is nothing in your link that supports your point in any way.

If anything it shows how wrong you are

Elderly parishioner Cecilia Gimenez said she tried to fix the damage to the 19th Century fresco with approval from the church's priest.
Her efforts were met with horror by conservators

anyone that has a passion for a work of art will react in horror when some idiot decides to "fix" it

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Have but have not watched the following in 3-D. Do you have any of these and if so, which one are the best at 3-D?

[Show spoiler]Blade Runner 2049 3D
Everest 3DP
Exodus: Gods And Kings 3D
The Hobbit: The Battle Of The Five Armies 3D
Ice Age: Continental Drift 3D
It Came From Outer Space 3D
Monsters University 3D
Priest 3D
Thor: The Dark World 3DP
Thor: Ragnarök 3DP
Transformers: Dark Of The Moon - 3D
Wonder Woman 3D

Priest 3D, which I own but have not watched, is alleged to be both a terrible movie and one with very bad 3D effects. The blu-ray.com review scores both the movie and the 3D video quality 1.5/ 5.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Pries.../25974/#Review