Police Officer with no heart!

[brettallica]

Originally Posted by ludawg23

Key word there is suspect.

I don't think the woman or great-aunt (who must have been really old) are considered suspects during a routine traffic violation...in the hospital parking lot nonetheless.

Put on a kevlar vest and roam the streets with thugs who would like nothing better than to pierce it with a bullet and see how you (re)act to someone who jumps out of the car and rushes away from you. He actually showed great restraint in that particular portion of the scenario, when a more aggressive action would have been perfectly suitable, reasonable, and lawful. It's his other actions (e.g. "I could screw you") that should be judged and scrutinized.

As Another_Dude said, "It is the court's job to decide guilt and punish, not the officer's." That is irrefutable. That is absolutely not the cop's job and I agree with Another_Dude 100%.

[Marine Mike]

Originally Posted by Teabaggins

I agree what he did was totally wrong etc but technically, did he do anything illegal to warrant a suspension?

I know that in the Marine Corps you can get a Non-Judicial Punishment (NJP) for behavior that is unbecoming of a Marine. This includes anything that could be considered 'Non-Marine type behavior'.

I imagine that Police Officers have similar ethical guidelines in place.

[Marine Mike]

Originally Posted by ludawg23

Key word there is suspect.

I don't think the woman or great-aunt (who must have been really old) are considered suspects during a routine traffic violation...in the hospital parking lot nonetheless.

Lets say that a cop pulls you over and you suddenly reach for the glove box while he is at the window. He is allowed and encouraged to pull his weapon for his own saftey even if the person doing that is a 90 year old grandmother.

These women are suddenly jumping out of the car when he pulls them over! There are procedures in place to protect the police officer as well the suspects that are being pulled over.

[Teabaggins]

Originally Posted by robinandtami

In your job.... do you have to do something illegal to warrant a suspension? Or just break company policy or behave unprofessionally? Just sayin.

I act in an unprofessional manner all the time and my boss headbutted me once....but I see your point.

[Chordata]

Originally Posted by jayvo2008

That is F'd up! Some people in here are just making excuses for this cop! He may not have done anything to warrant beign fired, but anyone can tell he was being an ASS! Common Sense People!

Who is making excuses for him????

To a man, everyone agrees he acted like a jerk. BUT, he was completely justified in pulling over Moats to begin with (and frankly for giving a ticket).

[ludawg23]

Originally Posted by brettallica

Put on a kevlar vest and roam the streets with thugs who would like nothing better than to pierce it with a bullet and see how you (re)act to someone who jumps out of the car and rushes away from you. He actually showed great restraint in that particular portion of the scenario, when a more aggressive action would have been perfectly suitable, reasonable, and lawful. It's his other actions (e.g. "I could screw you") that should be judged and scrutinized.

As Another_Dude said, "It is the court's job to decide guilt and punish, not the officer's." That is irrefutable. That is absolutely not the cop's job and I agree with Another_Dude 100%.

Running away from a cop to go into a HOSPITAL does not give the cop the right to use deadly force...PERIOD

Plus, she told him her mother was dying and he completley ignored that fact. I'm sure the guy can compute that the lady and her great aunt were not dangerous by any means.

[JamesKurtovich]

Wow, what a power trip. That's going way past the line. The guy should be suspended, at the least. He was deliberately taking up there time because he knew their situation was urgent and dire.

[ludawg23]

Originally Posted by Marine Mike

Lets say that a cop pulls you over and you suddenly reach for the glove box while he is at the window. He is allowed and encouraged to pull his weapon for his own saftey even if the person doing that is a 90 year old grandmother.

These women are suddenly jumping out of the car when he pulls them over! There are procedures in place to protect the police officer as well the suspects that are being pulled over.

Ok so let's just create situations now that doesn't pertain to the actually story.

Did the woman reach into the glove box...or reach into her purse and act in a agressive manner towards him? Was she deemed dangerous to his safety? Please...

[brettallica]

Originally Posted by ludawg23

Thugs? lol

It was a simple traffic stop. Only AFTER they told the cop about her dying mother did she and the aunt jump out of the car.

Running away from a cop to go into a HOSPITAL does not give the cop the right to use deadly force...PERIOD

Last sentence = agreed. No question about that. What I'm saying, though, is no matter who you are, you just don't jump out of the car when a police officer is telling you to stay put. Whether your story checks out or does not check out is beside the point. If the cop tells you to do something, you do it (unless of course it's something lewd or blatantly immoral).

I'm not saying anyone in the car was a thug. What I'm saying is put yourself in a police officer's shoes and walk a mile. Then you'll understand why they do things the way they do. There is protocol for situations like this, and he could have been "even more of a jerk" -- if you want to put it that way -- to the people who exited the vehicle. I probably would have, and I'm a nice guy.

[DeeChizzle]

Both sides we're wrong in this situation. The cop could've handled the situation a lot better by verifying their story and then letting them off with a verbal warning so that they could be with their mother.

The women should not have exited the vehicle and attempted to enter the hospital without first giving the officer a chance to verify the situation after he pulled them over.

Moats became agitated with the officer which in turn made the officer agitated and yes the officer was out of line but there were moments that Moats was out of line as well.

As urgent as the situation was had everyone remained in the vehicle and then calmly told the officer what the situation was this might've been resolved a lot sooner.

A lot of you might disagree with me but let's for a moment assume that Moats didn't run the redlight down the street from the hospital but instead ran a redlight a few miles from the hospital? If they approached this situation in the same manner this might've gotten a lot more out of hand.

[brettallica]

For the record, I hope none of you are taking my responses personally. I do feel strongly about the principle that most law enforcement officials are good people who are out there to do the right thing, which is protect goobers like us who engage in trivial things like debating whether their actions are "right or wrong."

[Beefbowl]

Originally Posted by DeeChizzle

Both sides we're wrong in this situation. The cop could've handled the situation a lot better by verifying their story and then letting them off with a verbal warning so that they could be with their mother.

The women should not have exited the vehicle and attempted to enter the hospital without first giving the officer a chance to verify the situation after he pulled them over.

Moats became agitated with the officer which in turn made the officer agitated and yes the officer was out of line but there were moments that Moats was out of line as well.

As urgent as the situation was had everyone remained in the vehicle and then calmly told the officer what the situation was this might've been resolved a lot sooner.

A lot of you might disagree with me but let's for a moment assume that Moats didn't run the redlight down the street from the hospital but instead ran a redlight a few miles from the hospital? If they approached this situation in the same manner this might've gotten a lot more out of hand.

This would be easy to do if everyone was calm and thinking straight, but somebody was dying in a matter of minutes and when every seconds counts, I don't think ANYBODY would have remained in the car and wait for the cop.

[DeeChizzle]

Originally Posted by ludawg23

Running away from a cop to go into a HOSPITAL does not give the cop the right to use deadly force...PERIOD

Plus, she told him her mother was dying and he completley ignored that fact. I'm sure the guy can compute that the lady and her great aunt were not dangerous by any means.

The cop was stupid for not taking a few minutes to verify their story but yes their actions did not constitute deadly force but it probably did give the cop the authority to arrest them on the spot. Effed up? Yes, but you don't just leave a scene of a traffic stop without closure. Were the women justified for just leaving? Morally, yes, legally, no.

[ludawg23]

Originally Posted by DeeChizzle

The cop was stupid for not taking a few minutes to verify their story but yes their actions did not constitute deadly force but it probably did give the cop the authority to arrest them on the spot. Effed up? Yes, but you don't just leave a scene of a traffic stop without closure. Were the women justified for just leaving? Morally, yes, legally, no.

I agree. Arresting them was justifiable, shooting them is definitely not.

[Mr. J]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

Who is making excuses for him????

To a man, everyone agrees he acted like a jerk. BUT, he was completely justified in pulling over Moats to begin with (and frankly for giving a ticket).

oopps guess I took things the wrong way! My bad !

[Another_Dude]

Thinking more about the situation, I would have tried to remain as calm as possible during the "business" portion of the traffic stop. With that being said, once it became clear that the cop was making it personal with his comments about screwing me and intentionally stretching out the clock things would have gotten very bad.

I've already got him on dashcam throwing his attitude around and the jury knows that I've tried several times to end the encounter and get to my urgent business in the hospital.

After the hospital staff has notified the cop of the situation and the cop has made his unprofessional comments I would have a hard time finding the player guilty had he just knocked the snot out of the cop.

The thing about putting people into desperate situations when it isn't necessary is that sometimes they take desperate actions. This is why you rarely see veteran officers on these tapes. They have learned that doing dumb things to inflate their ego rarely makes for better careers. Some of the younger guys haven't learned that, so we see them online and on the news.

[DeeChizzle]

Originally Posted by Beefbowl

This would be easy to do if everyone was calm and thinking straight, but somebody was dying in a matter of minutes and when every seconds counts, I don't think ANYBODY would have remained in the car and wait for the cop.

Everyone reacts differently to situations like this, but yeah you can argue that most people would've probably reacted in the same manner but I'm sure there are levelheaded people out there who would've approached the situation in a more calm manner.

My aunt passed away from cancer 5 years ago and as fast as my family wanted to get to the hospital to be with her in her last minutes, my dad didn't run any redlights to get there. Not saying Moats was wrong in this situation but he made a split second judgement in which he thought he was morally right for running that redlight. Unfortunately there happened to be a dxxkhead cop who was in the right place at the right time, or wrong place at the wrong time...depends on one's perspective of the situation.

[Marine Mike]

Originally Posted by ludawg23

Ok so let's just create situations now that doesn't pertain to the actually story.

Did the woman reach into the glove box...or reach into her purse and act in a agressive manner towards him? Was she deemed dangerous to his safety? Please...

Doing something that can result in deadly force at increased speeds could deem dangerous to his safety.

I'm tired of talking about this.

Next time you are pulled over, when the cop comes to your window, quickly reach for the glove department and see what happens.

[ludawg23]

Originally Posted by Marine Mike

Doing something that can result in deadly force at increased speeds could deem dangerous to his safety.

I'm tired of talking about this.

Next time you are pulled over, when the cop comes to your window, quickly reach for the glove department and see what happens.

Reaching into your glove compartment unexpectedly and running into a hospital after telling the cop your mother is dying are two completely different things.

And I'm usually pretty quick about reaching into the glove compartment when the cop asks for my registration

[Chordata]

They're not completely different things to an officer who has just arrived and doesn't know the facts.