Third Window Films Discussion Thread

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by Faustus

Speaking only for myself, given an option I typically buy the Blu-ray of a TWF title rather than the DVD (partly because the subs are much sharper on the Blu), but as a lover of film and storytelling, if the content is good, then format is a secondary concern.

I don’t care about o-cards or fancy boxes, in fact I find them wasteful and unnecessary, so if DVD is the only or most viable way to get certain films on shelves and in my player, then I’ll gladly support it.

I believe that if a film-lover limits his or herself to only Blu or 4K, then they’ll miss out on the full spectrum of what’s out there. For example, I’m extremely grateful to TWF for giving us things like Adrift in Tokyo and Underwater Love, which, afaik, were DVD only.

Living in Japan, there's much less of a blu-ray market, and even a rental market of DVDs (and still even VHS), so there's much less a pickiness here. Probably due to the fact that there's an older population and very much an old-fashioned approach to cinema where theatrical releases are still the majority of return and video on demand/netflix are not a big thing here. So personally I share the same thoughts (maybe also as I'm a time where we had to trade 3rd generation vhs as that was the only way to see most films from Asia), but unfortunately the majority of 'collectors' don't seem to feel that way. Think everyone is just used to everything being in HD, but wish that more people wouldn't mind the format as much, as releasing smaller titles on DVD would really allow for more films to get out there.

[roguejp]

I can't speak for others, but I still buy DVD's as there are a lot of movies for which DVD is just the best format available for me to see the movie. So many, many movies that didn't get a blu-ray release....

I think you're doing yourself a disservice if the format is more important than the movie. For example, in the 4K UHD section there are people who only buy UHD's and don't even buy blu-ray's anymore because the can't stand the "inferior" quality. Think about all the movies that you will never see...

[Cinematt]

Originally Posted by NormanicGrav

BFI recently posted their top picks of best Japanese films from 1925 to 2019 and at least three Third Window Films titles made the list:

[Show spoiler]1989: Tetsuo: The Iron Man
2008: Love Exposure
2017: Hanagatami

It's a great list, and in a lot of ways more fund than the standard 'best films ever' lists because of the restriction they put on it. Plenty there I need to track down. If someone hasn't already done it I'll probably turn it into a Letterboxd list tonight. Speaking of which, I wonder if there's a TWF list there? I've only ever bought a handful of the DVDs so there's probably an awful lot I've not seen.

[Faustus]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

...as releasing smaller titles on DVD would really allow for more films to get out there.

I'd love that to happen, too.

in an ideal world, if it could be achieved with the collaboration of the artist(s) themselves and cover production + distribution costs for all concerned, then it could be wonderful for everyone, enriching the selection available.

[CelestialAgent]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

Living in Japan, there's much less of a blu-ray market, and even a rental market of DVDs (and still even VHS), so there's much less a pickiness here. Probably due to the fact that there's an older population and very much an old-fashioned approach to cinema where theatrical releases are still the majority of return and video on demand/netflix are not a big thing here. So personally I share the same thoughts (maybe also as I'm a time where we had to trade 3rd generation vhs as that was the only way to see most films from Asia), but unfortunately the majority of 'collectors' don't seem to feel that way. Think everyone is just used to everything being in HD, but wish that more people wouldn't mind the format as much, as releasing smaller titles on DVD would really allow for more films to get out there.

I still buy plenty of DVDs, the only issue is I'm less likely to do so at full price when Blu-rays are so cheap. Of course if there's any older films where only an SD master exists it would be perfect, but I don't know how much of a market there would be.

[Shingster]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

Dealing with TOHO is not easy. They cost a fortune and are very strict with their contracts and backends. They're like dealing with a major Hollywood studio and third window is a tiny tiny company.
Being in Asia, Hong Kong is a major market for Asian films and therefore they can afford to release such films as would make their money back. Having to deal and pay over the odds for comedies is more complicated for a small company in a small territory. Dealt with TOHO just twice, but that was with CONFESSIONS and LESSON OF EVIL, so titles which obviously have a much bigger chance to recoup their massive costs.

This is a complete pipe dream of a question from me, but do you think it could be possible to work with Toho to bring one of their classic films to DVD or Bluray without them pricing it out of the market? I'm thinking of Sweet Home by Kiyoshi Kurosawa, which obviously is more marketable than your average Third Window film, but also obviously has never been released, outside of VHS I think, for a reason. Could something like that work if you can get the director on board by promising his theatrical cut and perhaps if you set up a crowdfunding page like they did with Evil Dead Trap, or would you expect Toho to price it out of the water, not like you crowdfunding, not want to give you the choice of which cut, and then Kurosawa to be difficult to get on board?

[fatboyslim142]

Originally Posted by Cinematt

It's a great list, and in a lot of ways more fund than the standard 'best films ever' lists because of the restriction they put on it. Plenty there I need to track down. If someone hasn't already done it I'll probably turn it into a Letterboxd list tonight. Speaking of which, I wonder if there's a TWF list there? I've only ever bought a handful of the DVDs so there's probably an awful lot I've not seen.

TWF site list every release & says if it has gone OOP etc.

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by Shingster

This is a complete pipe dream of a question from me, but do you think it could be possible to work with Toho to bring one of their classic films to DVD or Bluray without them pricing it out of the market? I'm thinking of Sweet Home by Kiyoshi Kurosawa, which obviously is more marketable than your average Third Window film, but also obviously has never been released, outside of VHS I think, for a reason. Could something like that work if you can get the director on board by promising his theatrical cut and perhaps if you set up a crowdfunding page like they did with Evil Dead Trap, or would you expect Toho to price it out of the water, not like you crowdfunding, not want to give you the choice of which cut, and then Kurosawa to be difficult to get on board?

No, it's not possible with Toho. For those sort of major companies in Japan, they actually have a small international team, and I think it's not worth the time for them to do 'small' deals. Most major companies out there seem to be like that (same goes with CJ in Korea and such). Guess it's the massive contracts which are made, but those sort of companies don't want to get out of bed for less than a certain amount.

But then again, we did release 2 Kiyoshi Kurosawa films (Eyes of Spider / Serpent's Path) which had never been released outside of Japan (where they were also just released on VHS I believe) and they didn't sell well, possibly because they were DVD only (though no HD masters exist anyways). So if Sweet Home doesn't have HD masters, then I can assure you that a DVD only release won't make the money back on the cost of buying the rights because people won't want to pay £15 or so on a DVD yet it's not as if it would sell thousands of units needing to be sold for a DVD if its price is well under £10. Remember than places like Amazon or even the Arrow store take about 50% or more of the sale, so the amount that finally gets back to us is tiny.

And regarding making it HD for a bluray release, I've tried to deal with TOHO before on 'Man Who Stole the Sun', and they wouldn't even give a discount on the rights if I were to cover all the costs of remastering it. So they wouldn't pay for remaster, then would charge full price for using the remaster that I would have to pay for.

People wonder why so many films don't get out of japan, but it's because of companies like TOHO, TOEI, etc who have these massive back catalogues because of the fact that in japan these companies also own their cinemas and production studios, so there's no sort of production companies in between to negotiate with. You need to go super-independent to have the chance to work direct (which is why we did so much with Shinya Tsukamoto).

[Shingster]

Yeah I figured it was a pipe dream, but thanks for clarifying. I think Eyes of the Spider and Serpent's Path are two of Kurosawa's most obscure titles so I guess they were destined to be overlooked in an era when the hardcore fanbase have moved on to HD. Sweet Home is even more obscure but IMo it would be much more marketable given its Hollywood influences and of course the spin off video game was the inspiration for Resident Evil, so ther is that, but it seems Toho have absolutely no interest in ever releasing it home or abroad, I don't know if it's because Kurosawa disowned the edited VHS release or whether it's just been kinda forgotten about by the people that own it.

[qw0aszx]

So sad about Man Who Stole the Sun, that's a movie I really want to be restored and released on blu-ray.

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by qw0aszx

So sad about Man Who Stole the Sun, that's a movie I really want to be restored and released on blu-ray.

Actually had loads of meetings with both the director and producer who wanted it to be done, but TOHO were the ones who stood in its way.
Though, they did have a sort of remaster done for the japanese dvd re-release years back, so I'd imagine there is a HD master out there. Problem again just lies with the amounts that Toho would want for it, and I'm sure they wouldn't take into consideration post-coronavirus markets either (which has been a bit of an issue in regards to recent deals done with a few japanese and korean companies. As the virus has not affected them too much they seem to think the rest of the world is unaffected too).
Though, the Japanese dvd does have english subtitles and a newish master, so it's still a decent way to go for now.

[Cinematt]

Originally Posted by fatboyslim142

TWF site list every release & says if it has gone OOP etc.

Indeed, so it's nice to be able to make something like that without having to hunt around too much for the info! Letterboxd is just a nice way to keep that information in one place and to let other people discover it, I'd be lost without it!

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by Cinematt

Indeed, so it's nice to be able to make something like that without having to hunt around too much for the info! Letterboxd is just a nice way to keep that information in one place and to let other people discover it, I'd be lost without it!

just made this
https://letterboxd.com/thirdwindow/l...-window-films/
in order by catalogue number

[fdm]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

just made this
https://letterboxd.com/thirdwindow/l...-window-films/
in order by catalogue number

Peppermint Candy ?

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by fdm

Peppermint Candy ?

oops, just added it

[robthebobs]

With Tsukamoto's Gemini getting a release stateside, is there any chance the good folks at Third Window may be able to license this and give us UKers a release?

[Crispy Noodle]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

No, it's not possible with Toho. For those sort of major companies in Japan, they actually have a small international team, and I think it's not worth the time for them to do 'small' deals. Most major companies out there seem to be like that (same goes with CJ in Korea and such). Guess it's the massive contracts which are made, but those sort of companies don't want to get out of bed for less than a certain amount.

But then again, we did release 2 Kiyoshi Kurosawa films (Eyes of Spider / Serpent's Path) which had never been released outside of Japan (where they were also just released on VHS I believe) and they didn't sell well, possibly because they were DVD only (though no HD masters exist anyways). So if Sweet Home doesn't have HD masters, then I can assure you that a DVD only release won't make the money back on the cost of buying the rights because people won't want to pay £15 or so on a DVD yet it's not as if it would sell thousands of units needing to be sold for a DVD if its price is well under £10. Remember than places like Amazon or even the Arrow store take about 50% or more of the sale, so the amount that finally gets back to us is tiny.

And regarding making it HD for a bluray release, I've tried to deal with TOHO before on 'Man Who Stole the Sun', and they wouldn't even give a discount on the rights if I were to cover all the costs of remastering it. So they wouldn't pay for remaster, then would charge full price for using the remaster that I would have to pay for.

People wonder why so many films don't get out of japan, but it's because of companies like TOHO, TOEI, etc who have these massive back catalogues because of the fact that in japan these companies also own their cinemas and production studios, so there's no sort of production companies in between to negotiate with. You need to go super-independent to have the chance to work direct (which is why we did so much with Shinya Tsukamoto).

Just wanted to thank you for releasing those; very sorry to hear they weren't good sellers for you. He is solidly in my top 5 favorite directors, and releases of his films were the specific impetus for me going region free. The first Third Window blu-ray I bought was Woodsman and the Rain because of actor Koji Yakusho whom I knew from Mr Kurosawa's films.

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by robthebobs

With Tsukamoto's Gemini getting a release stateside, is there any chance the good folks at Third Window may be able to license this and give us UKers a release?

not 100% fully signed off, but in advanced contract negotiations at the moment...

[agent999]

Amazon have despatched Pink Films 3&4. This volume's a complete blind buy for me, looking forward to it. I hope the line continues after 5&6. For me, the double bill format and price are exactly right for discovery of films that are new to me.

[finishominis]

I'm pretty sure I now own all TWF's OOP titles except for Villain (d'oh...)
I still need to grab some of the most recent releases but I can pick them all up over the next few months.