HDR heatmaps and torch mode UHDs

[Pyoko]

Originally Posted by monstermidget

Agreed, a good discussion, I am a little conscious of bogging down poor Pyokos great thread with the ins and outs of our TV tonemapping adventures though!

No worries, I have no issues with keeping discussions wherever they spontaneously appear.

Originally Posted by monstermidget

Yea on my C7, there are instances in brighter scenes where its as if its tipping into "vivid mode" especially with 1000nit content, where its unnecessarly and arbitrarily pushing the APL, and the image will generally look processed and artifical as you say.

The active HDR on the 7-series is not good as it blows out highlight detail and messes with the black level, especially on the high-APL titles (though since they're so bright to begin with you probably wouldn't need to enable it for those anyway.) I agree the adjustments feel very arbitrary.

[Scottishguy]

Right, been testing out some discs and looking into DTM. Going to keep it off. Cheers guy's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux7q...ature=youtu.be

[tama]

So decided to watch league of there own with Active HDR on. One of the few Sony titles in a 1000 nit container. And I found while though overall good looking I can see where things get wonky at times with brights and color. Vivid mode looking so to speak. But also because the Blu is remastered I could compare. The Blu and UHD pretty much match for brightness levels, outside specular highlights, with no active HDR. With though the UHD is easily much brighter. Also I can see the metadata for MLL and MFALL on the UHD disc.

Then decide to play around with SW A New Hope. The UHD is dimmer then the Blu without Active HDR. Also dimmer then the Disney+ DV version. But matches closer with Active HDR. No info available other then it's within 1000 nit container.

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by tama

So decided to watch league of there own with Active HDR on.[...]
Then decide to play around with SW A New Hope. The UHD is dimmer then the Blu without Active HDR. Also dimmer then the Disney+ DV version. But matches closer with Active HDR. No info available other then it's within 1000 nit container.

You keep on using this term "Active HDR", but on my LG C8 there's no menu option with a name anything like that!

Is this something that was removed from 2018 onwards that you still have on your model?

I could use "Dynamic Contrast" (not that I'd want to) or "Dynamic Tone Mapping" (ditto - HDR10 only)

(As we all know, a TV is always doing its static tone mapping - which is completely separate to Dynamic Tone Mapping - not least because no TV covers the full rec.2020 gamut regardless of the nit-content of any title so the chroma has to be tone-mapped even in the luminance doesn't)

But I have no way to enable, or disable, anything called "Active HDR", so it's not something I think I could ever experiment with?

[tama]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

You keep on using this term "Active HDR", but on my LG C8 there's no menu option with a name anything like that!

Is this something that was removed from 2018 onwards that you still have on your model?

I could use "Dynamic Contrast" (not that I'd want to) or "Dynamic Tone Mapping" (ditto - HDR10 only)

(As we all know, a TV is always doing its static tone mapping - which is completely separate to Dynamic Tone Mapping - not least because no TV covers the full rec.2020 gamut regardless of the nit-content of any title so the chroma has to be tone-mapped even in the luminance doesn't)

But I have no way to enable, or disable, anything called "Active HDR", so it's not something I think I could ever experiment with?

I believe they're the same thing. In 2017 LG added it but to activate it you set dynamic contrast to low. It didn't have its own function in the menu.

In 2018 LG created its own function as Dynamic Tone Mapping in the TV's menu.

I just referred to it on my TV the way LG had referred to it for my model.

[tama]

I won't derail this thread any further but I have 1 question for the OP,

Pyoko, have you had a chance to look at Disney UHDs? Didn't see any listed. If you have was wondering about your impressions. After much tinkering last night I'm noticing a difference between Disney UHDs and everyone else's.

[monstermidget]

Yes, as tama says, it's simply that LG had orignally refered to its Dynamic Tone Mapping function as "Active HDR".

Originally Posted by tama

Then decide to play around with SW A New Hope. The UHD is dimmer then the Blu without Active HDR. Also dimmer then the Disney+ DV version. But matches closer with Active HDR. No info available other then it's within 1000 nit container.

How much dimmer was the Star War UHD without AHDR, was it at a level that you felt negatively effected the overall presentation?

My feelings with the 7 series would be that, Unless you felt the picture you were seeing dramatically suffered, I would sacrifice a little APL now and again, over the idiosyncrasies of AHDR. Especially if you have a panny optimizer to help resolve the trickiest hilight detail in higher nit content.

[tama]

Originally Posted by monstermidget

Yes, as tama says, it's simply that LG had orignally refered to its Dynamic Tone Mapping function as "Active HDR".



How much dimmer was the Star War UHD without AHDR, was it at a level that you felt negatively effected the overall presentation?

My feelings with the 7 series would be that, Unless you felt the picture you were seeing dramatically suffered, I would sacrifice a little APL now and again, over the idiosyncrasies of AHDR. Especially if you have a panny optimizer to help resolve the trickiest hilight detail in higher nit content.

Even without comparisons if felt flat. At first I thought maybe since the MLL or MFALL missing might have had something to do with it. But after comparing a few none DV Paramount and Fox titles that doesn't seem to be the case. AHDR with those was overkill much like the Sony titles and looks processed.

After comparing Disney titles of Aladdin, Lion King, Star Wars, Tangled, Avengers, the UHDs without AHDR are easily dimmer and flatter looking compared to their BD and Streaming counterparts. With AHDR on they're in the same ball park for brightness and colors.

[Pyoko]

Originally Posted by tama

Pyoko, have you had a chance to look at Disney UHDs? Didn't see any listed. If you have was wondering about your impressions. After much tinkering last night I'm noticing a difference between Disney UHDs and everyone else's.

You mean in general, or the Disney/Pixar animations? I think I only have Iron Man and The Prestige, and I suspect The Prestige may have been a Warner port.

Originally Posted by monstermidget

My feelings with the 7 series would be that, Unless you felt the picture you were seeing dramatically suffered, I would sacrifice a little APL now and again, over the idiosyncrasies of AHDR. Especially if you have a panny optimizer to help resolve the trickiest hilight detail in higher nit content.

This is also why forced DV is nice on the 7-series, because it eschews the aggressive HDR10 tonemapping for a brighter image that I suspect follows the ST2084 EOTF closer, but without the problems of active HDR.

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by Pyoko

You mean in general, or the Disney/Pixar animations? I think I only have Iron Man and The Prestige, and I suspect The Prestige may have been a Warner port.

Licensed to Warner form Disney for the Nolan set in the US. I imagine Nolan done the transfer at Warner though. Or just approved of Warners transfer.

[Geoff D]

Prestige is 100% a Warners port, right down to the authoring.

[Scottishguy]

How the heck did The Prestige end up Disney in the US anyway?

[tama]

Originally Posted by Pyoko

You mean in general, or the Disney/Pixar animations? I think I only have Iron Man and The Prestige, and I suspect The Prestige may have been a Warner port.


This is also why forced DV is nice on the 7-series, because it eschews the aggressive HDR10 tonemapping for a brighter image that I suspect follows the ST2084 EOTF closer, but without the problems of active HDR.

I will check Iron Man tonight. I was just curious if you had a Disney title you could do a comparison for.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Scottishguy

How the heck did The Prestige end up Disney in the US anyway?

Probably co-financed with Touchstone Pictures, so they got US distribution rights.

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by Scottishguy

How the heck did The Prestige end up Disney in the US anyway?

Touchstone put money into it.
Post Begins Nolan wasn't quite blank cheque Nolan yet.

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

Touchstone put money into it.
Post Begins Nolan wasn't quite blank cheque Nolan yet.

As I suspected.

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by Pyoko

...This is also why forced DV is nice on the 7-series, because it eschews the aggressive HDR10 tonemapping for a brighter image that I suspect follows the ST2084 EOTF closer, but without the problems of active HDR.

I have a question re: "forced DV" (which may have already been answered so please don't rip me a new one for asking again)- I have a Sony UBP-X700 set to Dolby Vision output with my LG 65B7A, so everything is essentially "forced DV", and does this actually "change" the playback quality of HDR-10 UHDs, or is it simply outputting the HDR-10 of those discs in a "Dolby Vision wrapper", so to speak? (ducks in case this has already been answered and folks here decide to rip me a new one for asking such a stupid question)...

Also, if you're accepting requests in this thread and it hasn't been suggested so far, I'd love to see you tackle the Synapse UHD of Dario Argento's SUSPIRIA.

Chris

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

Also, if you're accepting requests in this thread and it hasn't been suggested so far, I'd love to see you tackle the Synapse UHD of Dario Argento's SUSPIRIA.

I'm not sure you'd really like that. (Don't get me wrong, it looks very good , but it also belongs in this thread. Mine got "cancelled", but is still coming.)

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

I'm not sure you'd really like that. (Don't get me wrong, it looks very good , but it also belongs in this thread. Mine got "cancelled", but is still coming.)

I honestly would love to see how it stacks up here. BTW, I wasn't involved with the UHD at all (well, aside from the carry over of the 4.0 track from the Blu-ray). Just sayin'.

Re: "but is also belong in this thread"- what thread?

And also, what got "cancelled" for you?

Chris

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

I honestly would love to see how it looks here. BTW, I wasn't involved with the UHD at all (well, aside from the carry over of the 4.0 track from the Blu-ray). Just sayin'.

Fair enough. And as I said: It looks very good.

Re: "but it also belongs in this thread"- what thread?

This one - the "torch mode" thread.

And also, what got "cancelled" for you?

I cancelled my Synapse UHD-BD comparison myself. I started it, but aborted it due to requiring too much time at the time.