Next-gen consoles: why we'll still be playing games at 30fps

[Talal86]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

WTF are you talking about? That trailer looked amazing and judging by the amount of views it has gotten, I really don't think the vast majority of gamers share your opinion.

I meant the HZD pc trailer, it’s a video form of what a pc person would list to entice people to skip the ps5 and build a pc

they list a bunch of things that the ps5 can’t apparently do. weird timing imo

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by Talal86

I meant the HZD pc trailer, it’s a video form of what a pc person would list to entice people to skip the ps5 and build a pc

they list a bunch of things that the ps5 can’t apparently do. weird timing imo

Okay, thanks for the clarification! Though I'm still not sure what you mean. I saw the PC/PS4 Pro video comparison and honestly I didn't think they looked all that different from one another. What did you mean by they embarrassed themselves? Was it BECAUSE they looked so similar?

[Talal86]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Okay, thanks for the clarification! Though I'm still not sure what you mean. I saw the PC/PS4 Pro video comparison and honestly I didn't think they looked all that different from one another. What did you mean by they embarrassed themselves? Was it BECAUSE they looked so similar?

The trailer starts with listing things the ps5 can’t do, (Unlocked framerate and Graphical customization, etc..) that’s a bad look imo.

also it’s obviously a selling point if they’re using it in their official trailer. so they know people want options

sure I don’t want to have menus of options on console, but if the ps5 can’t let us pick 60fps over higher resolution, (after an official trailer using that as a selling point for another system) that’s embarrassing imo

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by Talal86

The trailer starts with listing things the ps5 can’t do, (Unlocked framerate and Graphical customization, etc..) that’s a bad look imo.

also it’s obviously a selling point if they’re using it in their official trailer. so they know people want options

sure I don’t want to have menus of options on console, but if the ps5 can’t let us pick 60fps over higher resolution, (after an official trailer using that as a selling point for another system) that’s embarrassing imo

How do you know this though? Don't you think you're being a little presumptuous until we actually experience HZD for ourselves on PS5? Besides, HZD HAS an unlocked frame option. Why wouldn't the PS5 take advantage? As far as graphical customization, isn't that the case for pretty much all console games vs PC? HZD has a performance mode and a graphics mode. Really that's all I want for console games. I don't want a plethora of graphic sliders to have to contend with on console.

[Talal86]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

How do you know this though? Don't you think you're being a little presumptuous until we actually experience HZD for ourselves on PS5? Besides, HZD HAS an unlocked frame option. Why wouldn't the PS5 take advantage? As far as graphical customization, isn't that the case for pretty much all console games vs PC? HZD has a performance mode and a graphics mode. Really that's all I want for console games. I don't want a plethora of graphic sliders to have to contend with on console.

Aren’t both modes of Horizon 30fps? I think one is locked 30fps and the other favors resolution so has some drops, at least that’s what I remember. so not sure if it can take advantage of the ps5

GoW had an ‘unlocked’ framerate mode, which should take advantage of the extra power

I know that trailer was typical for pc releases, but it’s different coming from a console first party studio, specially with a new system coming out in a few months. that’s why I said weird timing

[heyadol]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

How do you know this though? Don't you think you're being a little presumptuous until we actually experience HZD for ourselves on PS5? Besides, HZD HAS an unlocked frame option. Why wouldn't the PS5 take advantage? As far as graphical customization, isn't that the case for pretty much all console games vs PC? HZD has a performance mode and a graphics mode. Really that's all I want for console games. I don't want a plethora of graphic sliders to have to contend with on console.

This is a fair point, but Sony isn't doing much to manage expectations here.

On PS4 Pro H:ZD was 1080p/30fps for performance and (checkerboard) 2160p/30(ish)fps in resolution mode. Now we have the trailer for PC with a lot of great options that are obviously expected for an enhanced PC port, on the PS5 side (assuming H:ZD makes the top 100) we have games optimized for for PS5 which means...what exactly?

As a comparison Gears 5 on XOX was (dynamic) 2160p/60fps, and on XSX the dev has stated that it is native 2160p/100+fps with effects that exceed the "PC Ultra specs."

I am not comparing the two games nor Decima vs. UE4. I am saying in both cases we have: games that looked and played great on the original platform; games that have a lot of improvements for their PC counterpart; and one side telling us we can expect the free upgrade to make the game even better on their nextgen platform while the other side just leaves us guessing.

Maybe we will see a patch of some sort that gives H:ZD PC-level upgrades, maybe Sony should tell us.

[Derb]

One major factor as to why the first game looked so damn good on PS4 Pro was its native resolution before checkerboarding. 1800p

Too bad most other games that use checkerboard are limited to 1440p-ish.

Can’t really comment on the current gen game game compared to the next-gen game. Well, other than the fact it’ll look even better because of newer assets not yet seen from Decima.

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by heyadol

[Show spoiler]This is a fair point, but Sony isn't doing much to manage expectations here.

On PS4 Pro H:ZD was 1080p/30fps for performance and (checkerboard) 2160p/30(ish)fps in resolution mode. Now we have the trailer for PC with a lot of great options that are obviously expected for an enhanced PC port, on the PS5 side (assuming H:ZD makes the top 100) we have games optimized for for PS5 which means...what exactly?

As a comparison Gears 5 on XOX was (dynamic) 2160p/60fps, and on XSX the dev has stated that it is native 2160p/100+fps with effects that exceed the "PC Ultra specs."

I am not comparing the two games nor Decima vs. UE4. I am saying in both cases we have: games that looked and played great on the original platform; games that have a lot of improvements for their PC counterpart; and one side telling us we can expect the free upgrade to make the game even better on their nextgen platform while the other side just leaves us guessing.

Maybe we will see a patch of some sort that gives H:ZD PC-level upgrades, maybe Sony should tell us.

I fully believe this will happen; I can't see them letting the PC version be the definitive version of their game, especially with a sequel on the way soon. The PS5 will get this enhanced version for the most part. I don't expect the sliders and such, but they'll probably have the performance and resolution mode options at higher native resolution (4K) and/or framerate now.

[NARMAK]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Okay, thanks for the clarification! Though I'm still not sure what you mean. I saw the PC/PS4 Pro video comparison and honestly I didn't think they looked all that different from one another. What did you mean by they embarrassed themselves? Was it BECAUSE they looked so similar?

I don't know which PC/PS4 Pro comparison was done, but the PC release is a whole other level of improvement across the board and i think what Talal86 meant was that you're just releasing a PC version with a framerate up to 120fps, toggled graphical settings and improvements but then are showing off a PS5 version of the sequel locked to 30fps.

There no longer becomes an argument for "creative direction" by letting people set the FPS or in the case of Ratchet & Clank, going backwards from 60fps to 30fps.

PS5 was supposed to be an evolution of the PS4 Pro really, and even then offer a generational leap by offering more than 2x the GPU performance given its RDNA2 Teraflops they're measuring against GCN. So then to end up at 30fps once again seems a little harsh when you consider the resolutions of the image before they checkerboard rendered on PS4 Pro weren't too much below native 4K. At the end of the day, i think devs are showing once again the compromises that are being chosen to bring their visions for the games on console. Which is also why i'm really hoping for a toggle to performance settings on resolution and framerates for next gen games so future hardware with more power can run it even better.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

I don't know which PC/PS4 Pro comparison was done, but the PC release is a whole other level of improvement across the board and i think what Talal86 meant was that you're just releasing a PC version with a framerate up to 120fps, toggled graphical settings and improvements but then are showing off a PS5 version of the sequel locked to 30fps.

There no longer becomes an argument for "creative direction" by letting people set the FPS or in the case of Ratchet & Clank, going backwards from 60fps to 30fps.

PS5 was supposed to be an evolution of the PS4 Pro really, and even then offer a generational leap by offering more than 2x the GPU performance given its RDNA2 Teraflops they're measuring against GCN. So then to end up at 30fps once again seems a little harsh when you consider the resolutions of the image before they checkerboard rendered on PS4 Pro weren't too much below native 4K. At the end of the day, i think devs are showing once again the compromises that are being chosen to bring their visions for the games on console. Which is also why i'm really hoping for a toggle to performance settings on resolution and framerates for next gen games so future hardware with more power can run it even better.

But the flaw in your argument is you are comparing a current gen game running on PC with a next gen game running on console. I could understand it if the sequel was using the exact same form of the Decima engine with exact same assets as the first game. But you're kind of unfairly glossing over the fact that the sequel is a bigger world, pushes way more triangles, has more advanced graphical features with lighting and textures, probably more advanced AI, underwater sequences, flying sequences, more complex looking robot animals, etc. Yet all you're focusing on is frames and resolution as if none of the design improvements that are in the sequel should have an impact on the two. You're basically saying "Frames and resolution at all costs!!" Well the developers may just not see it that way NARMAK. They may simply see at as "how far can we maximize the PS5's capabilities at a 30fps budget?" That's why I said weeks ago that frames and resolution on console does not apply in the same manner as it does on PC. Those are DESIGN choices the publishers/developers make. Consoles are not PC's that the end user can just "brute force" to whatever resolution and framerate they want.

[NARMAK]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

But the flaw in your argument is you are comparing a current gen game running on PC with a next gen game running on console. I could understand it if the sequel was using the exact same form of the Decima engine with exact same assets as the first game. But you're kind of unfairly glossing over the fact that the sequel is a bigger world, pushes way more triangles, has more advanced graphical features with lighting and textures, probably more advanced AI, underwater sequences, flying sequences, more complex looking robot animals, etc. Yet all you're focusing on is frames and resolution as if none of the design improvements that are in the sequel should have an impact on the two. You're basically saying "Frames and resolution at all costs!!" Well the developers may just not see it that way NARMAK. They may simply see at as "how far can we maximize the PS5's capabilities at a 30fps budget?" That's why I said weeks ago that frames and resolution on console does not apply in the same manner as it does on PC. Those are DESIGN choices the publishers/developers make. Consoles are not PC's that the end user can just "brute force" to whatever resolution and framerate they want.

Don't get me wrong, i completely understand the comparison of PS4 build vs PC with more advanced options and i think it will be interesting to see what the modding community end up doing with the title tbh.

The differences you described between HZD on PC and the sequel for PS5 could be eroded with mods for the textures etc. kinda like GTA V on PC had done. Of course, perhaps not an apples to apples comparison again but in terms of comparing a PS5 spec to an equivalent PC, i strongly believe a PC version could hit 60fps.

However, let's put that to one side and agree, the devs are locked to 30fps and maximising the hardware to that framerate. However it would be really nice and forwards thinking if GG had basically designed in a resolution and framerate toggle. Cap the fps to 120 on the top end and let BC type stuff take care of that when a more powerful model releases and let people enjoy it. Kinda like on PCs when hardware improves and games can run better.