Archived: Insiders Thread

[Wet1]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

I think the upper levels of Sony are paying attention to this.

LOL, I would think so!!!

[Wet1]

Originally Posted by krinkle

Insiders:

Please do something to shore up Warner Bros. support! Everyone is saying on other forums that Warner Bros is going to announce exclusive support for HD-DVD at CEDIA. That will be enough to make it impossible for Blu-ray to win.

If the HD-DVD promotion group can come up with $150mil in incentives for Paramount, why can't the BDA do the same thing for Warner or Universal?

I hope the BDA remains deadly serious about winning the war. The future royalty streams from a Blu-ray victory will far outweigh the cost of an incentive package today.

I think I speak for all Blu-ray fans when I say that I hope you guys do whatever it takes to hold this thing together!

It would obviously take less money for the BDA (rather than HD-DVD) to sure up Warner/NL since the studios will sell more on BR to begin with. But even with that said, at some point the BDA (Sony?) has to wonder when to say enough is enough. Should the CEs make it standard practice to pay off every studio with these sums of money? And if so, who do you think is going to eat these costs in the end??? We are.

What about the ROI? I don't know that the BDA (Sony?) has paid Fox, Disney, Target, BB, etc (you'd be foolish to think otherwise)... but at some point they have to wonder if spending all this money is greater than the potential return on their investment. Think about how much Sony has put into this war. When you add up everything, I'm sure it's a HUGE chunk of money (billion+?). Would dropping another $200M for each studio be worth it? I don't know, but if you consider the idea is to ultimately make money, you have to wonder how far one company is willing to go given that guaranteed success of any HDM isn't carved in stone... Not to mention, if you give one guy $200M, who's to say everyone else isn't going to to hold their hand out in the future? And like I said, at hte end of the day someone has to pay for all this.

Just some food for thought.

[Josh]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

I think the upper levels of Sony are paying attention to this.

I know you and Penton are doing all you can. So far, Sony has shown they are not taking Blu-ray lightly (like they did with UMD). I only hope that they are taking this more seriously than SACD, otherwise, I fear we may see the same fate for Blu-ray.

[ikbradley]

The BDA has been fairly quiet for months. The Blockbuster switch was the last major coup.

Do any of the insiders actually have some real insider news? Such as development of a cheaper line of blu-ray or negotiations with Fox.

When the heck is BD+ protection being fully implemented?

These are the major questions that need to be answered. There hasn't been much movement and HD-DVD seems to be picking up steam after its failed price drop.

[Scorxpion]

Originally Posted by ikbradley

The BDA has been fairly quiet for months. The Blockbuster switch was the last major coup.

Do any of the insiders actually have some real insider news? Such as development of a cheaper line of blu-ray or negotiations with Fox.

When the heck is BD+ protection being fully implemented?

These are the major questions that need to be answered. There hasn't been much movement and HD-DVD seems to be picking up steam after its failed price drop.

Where you have been! you did not know FOX is online again

[Iceman_II]

Originally Posted by ikbradley

...When the heck is BD+ protection being fully implemented?

BD+ is here, one of the insiders correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that was the sticking point for FOX

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

I think the upper levels of Sony are paying attention to this.

And folks, by that, he ^ doesn’t mean Sony Pictures.
He means Sony Corp.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Scorxpion

Where you have been! you did not know FOX is online again

Yeah, I guess alot of people forgot about

this …………………….
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...oke#post166278

and how important it was to them (or at least seemed so) at the time.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Azumi

Paid, Penton:

I have a question in the broad sense of the word over the events in the past few days.

Paramount's announcement has been met with a lot of puzzlement by the people at large, because it's not a business win but rather the withdrawal of a commodity from a big chunk of the audience. It's therefore legitimate to wonder if the consumer's preference still *accounts to something* in today's world (especially since Blu-ray is leading the sales), or if people are shown nothing but contempt by Studios who can flip-flop as they see fit.

Most of us realize that there's more than meets the eye behind the format war. But as the Warner's rumor grow stronger, we can ask ourselves if these Studios are totally disconnected from the reality and risk to alienate the very consumers they're after.

If we take the most vocal fans and detractors out of the equation, all we see out there, is that people DO NOT UNDERSTAND why the war is still on and keep getting fueled by business wins that treat people like simple statistics.

If Warner becomes exclusive to HD DVD, perhaps Blu-ray will still win the war. Or perhaps the red pill will win. But isn't there also a tiny possibility that consumers at large will just get fed up, and shun the high def formats? What happens to the Studios then if they end up losing this market and find themselves stuck with the diminishing returns of DVD and the uncharted territories of the VOD?

If the high def market fails, it'll become one day a subject for business schools, where people will exactly see the turning points where decisive actions would have made the difference, and wonder what made film studios run blindfolded towards the cliff.

Don't studio executives and creative people see this danger looming? Do they read the papers and meet real people aside from valets and gardeners?

Paid, Penton, I'm sorry if these words are a bit brisk -- they're not aimed at your efforts. I feel that it would be great if the upper levels (within the BDA members, but also at Warners) are made aware of these concerns.

Also, lots of good people out there gave Blu-ray the lead through their efforts and their wallets. Although that might seem naive, people on the street would like to think that their voices - and the numbers of 300 - still count.

In order to end this post with a purposeful question, Steve Jobs is someone who has a big influence in Hollywood... and they've been sitting on the board for three years. Isn't it time that you use this weapon and ask him to pay a visit at Warners and at the 5 or 6 big market-turning companies in the field?

Thank you for listening and sorry for the long post.

Nothing to be sorry about.

Maybe if Paid has the time, he can address some of your specific concerns, I’ll offer my thoughts in general tomorrow.

Gotta go now.

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by Azumi

Paid, Penton:

I have a question in the broad sense of the word over the events in the past few days.

Paramount's announcement has been met with a lot of puzzlement by the people at large, because it's not a business win but rather the withdrawal of a commodity from a big chunk of the audience. It's therefore legitimate to wonder if the consumer's preference still *accounts to something* in today's world (especially since Blu-ray is leading the sales), or if people are shown nothing but contempt by Studios who can flip-flop as they see fit.

Most of us realize that there's more than meets the eye behind the format war. But as the Warner's rumor grow stronger, we can ask ourselves if these Studios are totally disconnected from the reality and risk to alienate the very consumers they're after.

If we take the most vocal fans and detractors out of the equation, all we see out there, is that people DO NOT UNDERSTAND why the war is still on and keep getting fueled by business wins that treat people like simple statistics.

If Warner becomes exclusive to HD DVD, perhaps Blu-ray will still win the war. Or perhaps the red pill will win. But isn't there also a tiny possibility that consumers at large will just get fed up, and shun the high def formats? What happens to the Studios then if they end up losing this market and find themselves stuck with the diminishing returns of DVD and the uncharted territories of the VOD?

If the high def market fails, it'll become one day a subject for business schools, where people will exactly see the turning points where decisive actions would have made the difference, and wonder what made film studios run blindfolded towards the cliff.

Don't studio executives and creative people see this danger looming? Do they read the papers and meet real people aside from valets and gardeners?

Paid, Penton, I'm sorry if these words are a bit brisk -- they're not aimed at your efforts. I feel that it would be great if the upper levels (within the BDA members, but also at Warners) are made aware of these concerns.

Also, lots of good people out there gave Blu-ray the lead through their efforts and their wallets. Although that might seem naive, people on the street would like to think that their voices - and the numbers of 300 - still count.

In order to end this post with a purposeful question, Steve Jobs is someone who has a big influence in Hollywood... and they've been sitting on the board for three years. Isn't it time that you use this weapon and ask him to pay a visit at Warners and at the 5 or 6 big market-turning companies in the field?

Thank you for listening and sorry for the long post.

I think your post is insightful and I agree with it.

I am equally concerned that we are seeing the opportunity for HD packaged media severly harmed by the actions of Paramount. What's more, I think that events have played out to the satisfaction of MS who have stated clearly that they do not think the future is packaged media. I think this is straighforward case of their working on a self fullfilling prophecy. Ask yourself if the advent of electronically distributed music has been good for consumers. We know it has not been good for the music industry, but who has benefited?

[Balian]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

And folks, by that, he ^ doesn’t mean Sony Pictures.
He means Sony Corp.

Wow nice ...bringing out the big guns finally. Talking about "cash incentives" for Warner Brothers. Sony Corp can offer more things to movie studios than Microsoft could offer. How about upgrading all your movie making equipment at a discount Warner Brothers?

[Icemage]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Yeah, I guess alot of people forgot about

this …………………….
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...oke#post166278

and how important it was to them (or at least seemed so) at the time.

It's very important, and don't let us get you down about it, P-Man. If it hasn't already been said enough, I'd like to thank you and paidgeek for giving us early word of this and other developments in the past. I'll trust that we'll see more positive developments in the coming days.

[WickyWoo]

Any news on "THE INCREDIBLES" coming to BD? Any chance of whispering it to someone....

Finding Nemo is the next Pixar title next fall. Then comes Toy Story 3-pack. I think it's safe to say it'll be out with whatever Brad Bird does next.

Most of us realize that there's more than meets the eye behind the format war. But as the Warner's rumor grow stronger, we can ask ourselves if these Studios are totally disconnected from the reality and risk to alienate the very consumers they're after.

And this is the problem in the entertainment industry at large, ESPECIALLY in the music/movies.

For every Peter Staddon, or the former Martin Blythe of Paramount out there that understands and gets the connection with the consumer, and especially the enthusiast, there are 10 people with MBA's and absolutely no clue about anything other than hard numbers making money. They don't think about next year, they only think about next quarter. What will bump the stock TODAY.

Don't studio executives and creative people see this danger looming? Do they read the papers and meet real people aside from valets and gardeners?

I'm sure there's a pile of people who do who try to warn them. Do you think the music industry got so bland by accident? They don't listen. I know tons of talented people who are being squashed because they don't want a new and talented act, they want one that sounds like the guys who had the hit single last week.

[The Big Blue]

Fox being back is great and thanks for the info on that.

Unfortunately, it appears they are keeping their insane pricing structure. Does anyone have any info on Fox switching to more realistic pricing?

As far as Sony, a nice price drop on the PS3 would do wonders?

[HDJK]

Just wanted to give the thumbs up to the blu insiders over at AVS insider's thread (especially Paidgeek and Talkst8t) for putting up with all the beating. You're doing a great job trying to keep things balanced even in bumpy times like these.

[patrick99]

Originally Posted by HDJK

Just wanted to give the thumbs up to the blu insiders over at AVS insider's thread (especially Paidgeek and Talkst8t) for putting up with all the beating. You're doing a great job trying to keep things balanced even in bumpy times like these.

Second that. I don't know how Paidgeek has the patience to respond to Mr. A's nonsense. I would not be able to do it.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

Ask yourself if the advent of electronically distributed music has been good for consumers. We know it has not been good for the music industry, but who has benefited?

Well, I think the answer is yes to that. But, music is very different. For one thing, the electronic delivery of music finally allowed cherry picking. People wanted to buy a few tracks, and not all of them. They created their own singles, rather overpaying for what the music studio decided.

But, for audiophiles it has been a disaster. The HD audio recordings never caught on as the consumer embraced lossy.

A movie, on the other hand, is a single indivisible entity. It's more like an double-album, but one that the consumer ALWAYS wants to play in its entirety.

Electronic delivery is inevitable. And I'm sure BD-Live will be offering increasing amounts of it. Some more esoteric titles may not be justifiable otherwise. But, the enthusiast wants a foundation of quality. They don't want product made with built-in massive compromises designed to fit the product into the narrow pipe, or bandwidth caps.

What is your take?

Gary

[Wet1]

Originally Posted by The Big Blue

Fox being back is great and thanks for the info on that.

Unfortunately, it appears they are keeping their insane pricing structure. Does anyone have any info on Fox switching to more realistic pricing?

Their pricing has, and will continue to be a real hindrance. People generally just aren't willing to pay over $25 per title at the street level. If Fox doesn't address this, I don't think their efforts will do much to increase BR sales. Even worse, it looks very bad when J6P walks into Best Buy and sees BR software cost well over $30 per title. That certainly is enough to leave a very bad taste in the mouth of J6P!

As far as Sony, a nice price drop on the PS3 would do wonders?

Sure it would. Unfortunately, Sony also has (and will continue to) taken a bath on the PS3. The more they drop the price, the longer the payback period for the PS3 program. As it stands now, I don't think Sony can be overly thrilled with sales given the resources they put into this project. In the future, I suspect they will be forced into another price drop to maintain market share, but it will be painful if they do so.

[CptGreedle]

Is there any update on how the BDA/Sony is reacting to Paramount? As in, are we going to see any big announcements soon regarding Warner or other companies? It would be a very bad blow if Warner drops Blu-ray, who has put so much into it. I know they could do better, but they have done well so far.
I don't think I could take another hard hit like that.

Also, with the recent announcement regarding the DVR on the PS3, any word on if that will be released to USA?
Finally, the 3D technology recently announced... is there any information on that beyond what the vague article says?

Thanks again for all the support and hard work you guys do and for the great info we have been getting.

[Azumi]

Paid, Penton, thanks for both your answers.

Originally Posted by paidgeek

I am equally concerned that we are seeing the opportunity for HD packaged media severly harmed by the actions of Paramount. What's more, I think that events have played out to the satisfaction of MS who have stated clearly that they do not think the future is packaged media. I think this is straighforward case of their working on a self fullfilling prophecy. Ask yourself if the advent of electronically distributed music has been good for consumers. We know it has not been good for the music industry, but who has benefited?

Yes, but unlike the music companies, film studios still have a window of opportunity to act.

Some of you must have read that story on Variety that said the combined video sales on iTunes and all the other VOD platforms since inception, didn't even match the number of copies that the DVD of POTC2 sold *on the first day*.

If this data is true, one doesn't need a MBA to figure out that it'll take a significant amount of time before VOD achieves critical mass, and even more before it becomes a habit among consumers.

As an individual, I don't even see packaged media and VOD as competitors, and I can think of several developing countries and human behaviors where packaged media is a commodity that cannot be replaced.

In twenty years, things may be different. But for the time being, studios have a good opportunity to expand once again the road that has been paved by VHS and DVD. I only hope that Warner and the powers that be get that.