Lord of the Rings and Warner audio discussion (split from LotR megathread)

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by bases1616

You would hope so, but look at Dark Knight. The audio could of been so much better with an DTHD 24-bit instead of the lazy 16-bit. Most of all the other studio's now are using the top notch audio for all there movies. Universal, Fox, Lionsgate, Paramount and Disney. All are using DTHD or DTS-HD MA 24-bit audio tracks.

We are all hoping Warner does not screw this up. If New Line was still on there own you know we would be getting 6.1 or 7.1 DTS-HD MA.

16 bit TrueHD vs DTS-MA 24 bit SO much better??? I think not. I would be willing to bet NOBODY would be able to hear a dif between these two in a double blind. I sure hope we get the latter just for good measure, but the reality is there will be no real world dif IMO.

[Riff Magnum]

I agree and, to be honest, i'm sick of hearing people diss the speed racer audio. Yes, it was lazy to not include a lossless track, but most of the people complaining probably haven't even heard the darn thing. I think it sounds pretty rocking and i'm in the minority of actually liking the movie, but i totally digress.

[bases1616]

Originally Posted by Riff Magnum

I agree and, to be honest, i'm sick of hearing people diss the speed racer audio. Yes, it was lazy to not include a lossless track, but most of the people complaining probably haven't even heard the darn thing. I think it sounds pretty rocking and i'm in the minority of actually liking the movie, but i totally digress.

You can agrue all you want about the audio, but the bottomline is Speed Raccer was dying for a lossless audio track. I did watch it on my 7.1 audio system and Speed Racer was lacking with the lack of lossless.

The audio is just as an important as the video on these BD's. Universal, Disney, Lionsgate, Paramount, and Fox are showing you how good the audio can be. Warner just needs to jump on aboard and learn some things from them.

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by Riff Magnum

I agree and, to be honest, i'm sick of hearing people diss the speed racer audio. Yes, it was lazy to not include a lossless track, but most of the people complaining probably haven't even heard the darn thing. I think it sounds pretty rocking and i'm in the minority of actually liking the movie, but i totally digress.

I liked Speed Racers track as well even though it could have been better IMO. However, the codec (lossy DD) had VERY little to do with what was lacking with Speed Racer IMHO, and the big issue with whatever problems there were (which were fairly minor to my ears) were due to the mix mainly. Again, lossless would not have made a sig dif as the mix is still the exact same.

[ajmrowland]

I'm still stuck with the HTiaB that I got in 2003. I still have to worry about upgrading my equipment before I can even judge lossless tracks1

[Lepidopterous]

I wish I had an HD sound set-up so I can jump in on this discussion

My 5.1 Dolby Digital is apparently ghetto now

[slimdude]

Originally Posted by Todd Smith

I liked Speed Racers track as well even though it could have been better IMO. However, the codec (lossy DD) had VERY little to do with what was lacking with Speed Racer IMHO, and the big issue with whatever problems there were (which were fairly minor to my ears) were due to the mix mainly. Again, lossless would not have made a sig dif as the mix is still the exact same.

I totally disagree! Speed Racer, and other Warner Brother's standard Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtracks would've benefit significantly with Lossless audio.

[davcole]

I think it's sad but i'm pretty sure you'll see a 16bit Lord of the Rings TRUEHD track. I suppose we should be happy with a TRUEHD track, however it's sad to know that we don't have "master quality" audio.

[Driver_King]

Originally Posted by davcole

I think it's sad but i'm pretty sure you'll see a 16bit Lord of the Rings TRUEHD track. I suppose we should be happy with a TRUEHD track, however it's sad to know that we don't have "master quality" audio.

Good joke. Of course we all know that lossless is lossless and the codec is not what makes the sound, right?

[davcole]

Originally Posted by Driver_King

Good joke. Of course we all know that lossless is lossless and the codec is not what makes the sound, right?

There is no mention of codec so i'm not sure what joke you are implying??

However what I am saying is that instead of 24bit, we'll get 16bit. Please advise where i'm comparing codecs?

[victorvondoom88]

Originally Posted by Driver_King

Good joke. Of course we all know that lossless is lossless and the codec is not what makes the sound, right?

If lossless is lossless then why does spidey 3's LPCM track sound better than the Dolby TrueHD? And don't try the whole level matching, and "hot" DTS soundtracks blah, blah. You can argue about those points all you want but this isn't about loudness it's about overall sound quality. In the real world on my system that is calibrated, with the volume at the same level, switching between the tracks. IMO the LPCM track has more detail and better defined bass and well it just sounds better overall.
Sadly I wish I had a movie that had all three LPCM, DTS-HD MA, & DTrueHD on it.
No the codec doesn't make the sound but it isn't crazy to think that one encoding could be superior to another. I believe that DTS-HD MA uses less compression than TrueHD. Dolby claims there encoder is more "efficient" than DTS's. I am of the opinion less is more when it comes to compression.
As far as LOTR films go Warner wont see my money until I get DTS-HD MA or LPCM period. I can keep my special extended cut with DTS-ES 6.1 for now. BTW IMO the DTS-ES tracks sound way better than the Dolby tracks on the dvd's same real world situation.
Just my opinion and worth just what you paid to hear it.

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by Driver_King

Good joke. Of course we all know that lossless is lossless and the codec is not what makes the sound, right?

I've read that repeatedly, and I am sure that going by specs alone it is quite true... but IME DTS-HDMA tracks almost always sound better than Dolby TrueHD tracks. Maybe the studios who choose HDMA do a better job of remastering their audio than studios who choose TrueHD. Maybe the PS3 handles the two formats differently. I truly have no idea why there is a difference, but for me there definitely is a difference.

[bases1616]

Originally Posted by Todd Smith

16 bit TrueHD vs DTS-MA 24 bit SO much better??? I think not. I would be willing to bet NOBODY would be able to hear a dif between these two in a double blind. I sure hope we get the latter just for good measure, but the reality is there will be no real world dif IMO.

All you have to do is compare Transformers DTHD 24-bit to Dark Knight DTHD 16-bit and you definitely can hear a difference. The explosions and bass have more of a full effect in Transformers. Don't get me wrong Dark Knight sounds good, but it could of been better. The IMAX experience was just amazing

[ajmrowland]

Originally Posted by bases1616

All you have to do is compare Transformers DTHD 24-bit to Dark Knight DTHD 16-bit and you definitely can hear a difference. The explosions and bass have more of a full effect in Transformers. Don't get me wrong Dark Knight sounds good, but it could of been better. The IMAX experience was just amazing

OMG, I can't believe you just told someone to compare the audio on two entirely different movies to prove your point about compression mwthods!




And no amount of bits can compare to the IMAX experience.

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by bases1616

All you have to do is compare Transformers DTHD 24-bit to Dark Knight DTHD 16-bit and you definitely can hear a difference. The explosions and bass have more of a full effect in Transformers. Don't get me wrong Dark Knight sounds good, but it could of been better. The IMAX experience was just amazing

That comparison is pointless as there are WAY too many variables. Hell, you are not even comparing the same soundtrack! Dif soundtracks, dif mixes. You simply are not making an apples to apples comparison. Absolutely no conclusions can be made of any possible dif between 16bit and 24bit with this comparison, sorry.

Originally Posted by bases1616

You can agrue all you want about the audio, but the bottomline is Speed Raccer was dying for a lossless audio track. I did watch it on my 7.1 audio system and Speed Racer was lacking with the lack of lossless.

The audio is just as an important as the video on these BD's. Universal, Disney, Lionsgate, Paramount, and Fox are showing you how good the audio can be. Warner just needs to jump on aboard and learn some things from them.

Lossless would NOT have made a significant dif on Speed Racer....what was lacking with SR was the mix. A mediocre mix (Speed Racer) is still a mediocre mix in lossless.

Originally Posted by ajmrowland

OMG, I can't believe you just told someone to compare the audio on two entirely different movies to prove your point about compression mwthods!

Exactly. The logic is flat out faulty and NOTHING can be concluded from this as far as the point that is trying to be established.