OLED v QLED

[cdittmer]

Originally Posted by scarletlion

Yeah I think if I do go OLED I'm going to put this TV in the TV room rather than the family room to minimise burn in risks. That means it will be showing 95% movies. 5% sport. Hopefully that will mean no youtube and no news channels etc.

I'm looking at getting the 65 inch LG BX. Black Friday will maybe be kind to me.

2 years ago I went from a Panasonic 60" plasma to a 65" LG OLED and have never looked back. I watch a ton of sports (football, baseball, hockey) and some news networks (CTV News Network, CNN etc.) and a fair amount of YouTube content and have had no issues with image retention or burn in. I was a big plasma fan but prefer the OLED experience. Everything looks better on the OLED.

[David M]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

True black is fine, that's what people always parrot about OLED, it's the near black response and stuff like chroma overshoot (© your pal Vincent) that gives me the heeby-jeebies when I read about people's adventures with OLED on forums.

You know your stuff and you know I respect that, but it's amazing the amount of times in the UHD threads someone casually mentions "oh, I had this problem with x movie on my OLED" and then several other people chime in with the exact same issue, funny how it never came up before. We can't have the cult of perfect black be diluted by the reported imperfections of other aspects, can we? Some of that shit would drive me insane, more than it would any of the foibles of my horrible LCD TV. As for zooming in the picture to get rid of static logos I was having to do that with my Pioneer plasma like 15 years ago, "the more things change..." etc etc

Not that there will ever be the perfect TV, but if my ZD9 goes bang tomorrow the only one I'd even consider replacing it with is the Panny HZ2000 OLED.

Yeah, I waited a while for the just-above-black uniformity to improve before I adopted OLED myself, and it could still be better. I personally find it less distracting than the LCD issues.

The fixation on zero black at the expense of black quality (and a bunch of other image quality issues) was a big issue around 2014/2015 when consumer OLED TVs couldn’t do much right except for zero black, yet reviews were raving. But 2016 was a turning point, in my opinion.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by David M

Yeah, I waited a while for the just-above-black uniformity to improve before I adopted OLED myself, and it could still be better. I personally find it less distracting than the LCD issues.

The fixation on zero black at the expense of black quality (and a bunch of other image quality issues) was a big issue around 2014/2015 when consumer OLED TVs couldn’t do much right except for zero black, yet reviews were raving. But 2016 was a turning point, in my opinion.

Hmmmm. I'm not sure much changed in 2016, these forums have several 2016 LG OLED users who are getting to grips with how poorly their sets manage UHD HDR, from the tone mapping to the near black response. I can think of at least two users who run forced Dolby Vision on all HDR content on their 2016 sets simply because it handles gradations so much betterer than the stock HDR processing, and there's someone else on here with a 2018 model who regularly chimes in with how he sees banding all over the place with HDR.

Other people then leap to OLED's defence and claim that theirs is perfect, that they don't have any such issues with the same model, but is it the time-honoured phenom of people just not noticing or the time-honoured phenom of panel variation and whatnot? It's my fear, especially with LG OLEDs (I've never, ever rated their processing) that I'd end up with the magic combo of my golden eyes picking out all the flaws on a dodgy panel.

I mean, not that I think I'm too special to play the panel lottery, I sent back the first ZD9 (albeit a refurb) because it had a massive pink patch of discolouration so I'm certainly not implying that LCD is immune, but when I see things in Vincent's OLED reviews like how many of the current LG Display panels seem to have a massive dirty patch on the left side of screen (as well as things the 'breathing' on brightness that the 2018 models shipped with, plus the chroma overshoot which some brands don't seem arsed about correcting at all e.g. Sony, and even when they do they just crushed the blacks to 'fix' it!) then it reminds me how many people simply put up with such stuff to justify their place amongst the cognoscenti (that's not a dig at you BTW).

[wxman2003]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Hmmmm. I'm not sure much changed in 2016, these forums have several 2016 LG OLED users who are getting to grips with how poorly their sets manage UHD HDR, from the tone mapping to the near black response. I can think of at least two users who run forced Dolby Vision on all HDR content on their 2016 sets simply because it handles gradations so much betterer than the stock HDR processing, and there's someone else on here with a 2018 model who regularly chimes in with how he sees banding all over the place with HDR.

Other people then leap to OLED's defence and claim that theirs is perfect, that they don't have any such issues with the same model, but is it the time-honoured phenom of people just not noticing or the time-honoured phenom of panel variation and whatnot? It's my fear, especially with LG OLEDs (I've never, ever rated their processing) that I'd end up with the magic combo of my golden eyes picking out all the flaws on a dodgy panel.

I mean, not that I think I'm too special to play the panel lottery, I sent back the first ZD9 (albeit a refurb) because it had a massive pink patch of discolouration so I'm certainly not implying that LCD is immune, but when I see things in Vincent's OLED reviews like how many of the current LG Display panels seem to have a massive dirty patch on the left side of screen (as well as things the 'breathing' on brightness that the 2018 models shipped with, plus the chroma overshoot which some brands don't seem arsed about correcting at all e.g. Sony, and even when they do they just crushed the blacks to 'fix' it!) then it reminds me how many people simply put up with such stuff to justify their place amongst the cognoscenti (that's not a dig at you BTW).

One thing I have noticed is that the 2020 LG OLEDS have worse panel uniformity than many of the 2016 panels. Viewing a 5% slide on my 2016 LG E6 is flawless, while looking at 5% slide images with the LG CX on AVS, show a lot of banding on most of them. If you can see banding at 5%, you WILL see it in real content. For now, I am holding off and waiting to see what the TCL QD OLED looks like when it is introduced September 2021.

[Robert Zohn]

@wxman2003, that's because you are looking at your OLED in person and it has stabilized with time. Pictures greatly exaggerate the screen uniformity. You cannot judge any OLED display from a picture. OLED panel screen uniformity has gotten significantly better since 2016.

Two important points on OLED's near black detail to @all members and visitors who read this tread.

1st, we're BETA testers for CalMAN and they just released a BETA update for LG 2020 OLED TV that fixes the near black detail greatly to be near perfect.

2nd, Sony's new A8H has excellent near black detail.

[David M]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Pictures greatly exaggerate the screen uniformity.

This is true and applies to all display technologies. If you try and take a photo of a TV screen showing a very dark frame, the camera will go into long-exposure mode and produce an exaggerated photo of the defects.

That doesn't mean they aren't there, but it does mean they're exaggerated.

[wxman2003]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

@wxman2003, that's because you are looking at your OLED in person and it has stabilized with time. Pictures greatly exaggerate the screen uniformity. You cannot judge any OLED display from a picture. OLED panel screen uniformity has gotten significantly better since 2016.

Two important points on OLED's near black detail to @all members and visitors who read this tread.

1st, we're BETA testers for CalMAN and they just released a BETA update for LG 2020 OLED TV that fixes the near black detail greatly to be near perfect.

2nd, Sony's new A8H has excellent near black detail.

Maybe I got lucky with my E6. After the first compensation cycle 4 years ago, my 5% image never changed and was flawless from the beginning with zero banding. You have to go down to a 1 or 2% slide to see any hint of banding. However, on my 2015 EF9500, the banding is a lot worse. The 2015 EF models were horrible with screen uniformity. The 2016 models improved dramatically to being almost perfect with uniformity.

[lgans316]

Panasonic 2019 and above OLEDs trounces any OLED TV for near black detail and handling of bit starved contents

[Robert Zohn]

True, ^ but only before Sony's A8H came to the market and also on all LG 2020 OLED TVs that are calibrated with the latest CalMAN calibration program.

[scarletlion]

Well as the OP - I'm completely sold on an OLED, it's going to compliment my Sony UX700 player perfectly. I've seen the QLEDS and other LEDs and they are nice. Very nice. But there are simply too many people who know about these things saying go OLED. Got to wait another month so I'm into the deal zone. It's going to be the longest month of my life.

[panasonicst60]

Originally Posted by scarletlion

Well as the OP - I'm completely sold on an OLED, it's going to compliment my Sony UX700 player perfectly. I've seen the QLEDS and other LEDs and they are nice. Very nice. But there are simply too many people who know about these things saying go OLED. Got to wait another month so I'm into the deal zone. It's going to be the longest month of my life.

Good decision. I myself came from a Panasonic plasma. My close friends has a few Kuros. LCDs black levels, blooming, and other issues I just can't stand coming from Plasma. Of course not all LCDs are bad. Some of the top models are definitely strong contenders.

Oled does have some drawbacks, but it's less offensive to me coming from a plasma. Burn in is definitely blown out of proportion. Plasmas are more prone to burn in. I'll say if you don't have burn in with your plasma, you won't have any issues with your OLED. Do note that the panel lottery is real! I have had four OLED tvs so far in my home. Three older ef9500s. First one was very bad at banding, even up to 20 ire test patterns. I exchanged it for another one with no luck. Then I decided to have the panel replaced and it was decent but not perfect. I definitely settled. When I upgraded to the LG C8, it was a one and done situation. I was VERY lucky! Even down to 1-5 ire patterns it is near perfect. It's extremely important to test your oled for banding on lower ires patterns, because for darker movies, like Arrival, it will be a problem.

Shadow details can be an issue if you don't calibrate your set. As OLED can and will crush shadow details. With newer sets I believe it has gotten better.

Good luck with your new tv!

[scarletlion]

Originally Posted by panasonicst60

Good decision. I myself came from a Panasonic plasma. My close friends has a few Kuros. LCDs black levels, blooming, and other issues I just can't stand coming from Plasma. Of course not all LCDs are bad. Some of the top models are definitely strong contenders.

Oled does have some drawbacks, but it's less offensive to me coming from a plasma. Burn in is definitely blown out of proportion. Plasmas are more prone to burn in. I'll say if you don't have burn in with your plasma, you won't have any issues with your OLED. Do note that the panel lottery is real! I have had four OLED tvs so far in my home. Three older ef9500s. First one was very bad at banding, even up to 20 ire test patterns. I exchanged it for another one with no luck. Then I decided to have the panel replaced and it was decent but not perfect. I definitely settled. When I upgraded to the LG C8, it was a one and done situation. I was VERY lucky! Even down to 1-5 ire patterns it is near perfect. It's extremely important to test your oled for banding on lower ires patterns, because for darker movies, like Arrival, it will be a problem.

Shadow details can be an issue if you don't calibrate your set. As OLED can and will crush shadow details. With newer sets I believe it has gotten better.

Good luck with your new tv!

Thank you for this. I will be posting results in this thread I expect. I really hope I am lucky with my panel lottery ticket.

I actually had a successful price match discount on an LG today. So will take delivery of an OLED on Thursday. I can't stop thinking about it. Hope I'm not disappointed.

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by panasonicst60

Good decision. I myself came from a Panasonic plasma. My close friends has a few Kuros. LCDs black levels, blooming, and other issues I just can't stand coming from Plasma. Of course not all LCDs are bad. Some of the top models are definitely strong contenders.

Oled does have some drawbacks, but it's less offensive to me coming from a plasma. Burn in is definitely blown out of proportion. Plasmas are more prone to burn in. I'll say if you don't have burn in with your plasma, you won't have any issues with your OLED. Do note that the panel lottery is real! I have had four OLED tvs so far in my home. Three older ef9500s. First one was very bad at banding, even up to 20 ire test patterns. I exchanged it for another one with no luck. Then I decided to have the panel replaced and it was decent but not perfect. I definitely settled. When I upgraded to the LG C8, it was a one and done situation. I was VERY lucky! Even down to 1-5 ire patterns it is near perfect. It's extremely important to test your oled for banding on lower ires patterns, because for darker movies, like Arrival, it will be a problem.

Shadow details can be an issue if you don't calibrate your set. As OLED can and will crush shadow details. With newer sets I believe it has gotten better.

Good luck with your new tv!

OLEDs still crush blacks, all of them that I have seen, including my own. I agree that OLED, in my opinion, generally has better picture quality. However, poor shadow detail is a bad flaw. The gray blacks and blooming of LED are horrendous too.

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by panasonicst60

Good decision. I myself came from a Panasonic plasma. My close friends has a few Kuros. LCDs black levels, blooming, and other issues I just can't stand coming from Plasma. Of course not all LCDs are bad. Some of the top models are definitely strong contenders.

Oled does have some drawbacks, but it's less offensive to me coming from a plasma. Burn in is definitely blown out of proportion. Plasmas are more prone to burn in. I'll say if you don't have burn in with your plasma, you won't have any issues with your OLED. Do note that the panel lottery is real! I have had four OLED tvs so far in my home. Three older ef9500s. First one was very bad at banding, even up to 20 ire test patterns. I exchanged it for another one with no luck. Then I decided to have the panel replaced and it was decent but not perfect. I definitely settled. When I upgraded to the LG C8, it was a one and done situation. I was VERY lucky! Even down to 1-5 ire patterns it is near perfect. It's extremely important to test your oled for banding on lower ires patterns, because for darker movies, like Arrival, it will be a problem.

Shadow details can be an issue if you don't calibrate your set. As OLED can and will crush shadow details. With newer sets I believe it has gotten better.

Good luck with your new tv!

No plasma isn't more prone to burn-in. Unlike plasma, OLED is more susceptible to burn in the longer you own it as opposed to plasma.

[scarletlion]

well I'm, happy with my LG 65 inch. I took the plunge and although I'm sure the CX is better than the BX, I think I got what I paid for. I'm still playing with the settings and sometimes it feels like every different movie requires an adjustment but it'll settle down. It does pick up every imperfection in a file / disc so you can definitely tell if you're watching a poorly compressed rip or a poorly mastered disc etc There is considerable noise in the older films, but I kinda like it.

One thing I think is noticeable is the motion. On the recommended settings with judder completely off, there is serious motion distortion. So I turn the judder on slightly as to my eyes it looks far better. But that's nitpicking.

I can tell it's a very good TV, because when I now watch something on my Panasonic 50inch 4K tv I'm aghast at how the picture looks comparably.

[JackTwist]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

OLEDs still crush blacks, all of them that I have seen, including my own. I agree that OLED, in my opinion, generally has better picture quality. However, poor shadow detail is a bad flaw. The gray blacks and blooming of LED are horrendous too.

In my experience, I've actually found OLEDs have raised blacks, not crushed. This may be due to the specific 2020 CX panels I've received, but only one of the three had what appeared to be near perfect blacks out of the box. The other two were quite raised. I know calibration would fix these, but due to panel issues, I have not yet had a calibration performed. I would say the raised blacks aren't really an issue in most cases unless the content is somewhat bit-rate starved or poorly compressed. Either way, it is a significant improvement to the FALD TVs I had which had to crush shadow detail or highlights in order to reduce blooming.

[Robert Zohn]

Properly set-up the black crush is very minimal and has only a very slight effect at the very lowest luminance levels. Shadow detail should be very good. Further, with a good professional calibration and the latest CalMAN software near black can be made perfect with detail at 0.5% luminance and every nit thereafter.

In regards to raised blacks it's also a just a moderate issue that mostly appears when streaming Dolby Vision HDR content. LG's next firmware greatly improves on this issue.

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

OLEDs still crush blacks, all of them that I have seen, including my own. I agree that OLED, in my opinion, generally has better picture quality. However, poor shadow detail is a bad flaw. The gray blacks and blooming of LED are horrendous too.

LG C8 OLED crushed blacks on scenes with low brightness.
Panasonic DX902 LED-LCD overexposed shadows a bit. It was a light cannon to be frank. Still miss it but it had some of the usual LED-LCD issues.
Panasonic GZ (2019) OLED -The black crush is subtle but you can tweak gamma via IRE . I would take a little bit of shadow crush over the usual LED-LCD artifacts. Panasonic near black performance is better than any other OLEDs.

[supersix4]

Originally Posted by scarletlion

-Is an OLED too risky given this situation? (burn in and damage etc)
-Should I risk it and get it from somewhere like John Lewis with extra damage protection?
-Will the Black Friday deals in November see a 65inch LG or equivalent enter my budget range?
-Should I be looking at QLED ? Is that the right gear for my situation, or will I regret not getting an OLED when I had the chance?

1. No I game and leave on menus for hours never have seen more than a second of IR over the course of a few years and 1000s of hours on my OLED
2. I probably wouldn't but Idk enough of about them
3. Not sure but you're very closet to the 65' pricing I'd just save a bit more
4. QLED would only be my backup option if the room I was putting it in had TONS of light and thus needed the brightness of the Q... In every other imaginable situation the OLED kicks the S* out of the Qleds. Just like Plasma in the early days vs. LCD, there simply is no comparison.

[scarletlion]

Originally Posted by supersix4

1. No I game and leave on menus for hours never have seen more than a second of IR over the course of a few years and 1000s of hours on my OLED
2. I probably wouldn't but Idk enough of about them
3. Not sure but you're very closet to the 65' pricing I'd just save a bit more
4. QLED would only be my backup option if the room I was putting it in had TONS of light and thus needed the brightness of the Q... In every other imaginable situation the OLED kicks the S* out of the Qleds. Just like Plasma in the early days vs. LCD, there simply is no comparison.

Yeah, I'm happy with it. The room is basically pitch black so it looks great