Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[EddieLarkin]

Perhaps try disabling the Optimiser altogether? The same tech is already built into your TV, so it's essentially doubling up on the tone mapping and as far as I know you shouldn't have to use it at all.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

Perhaps try disabling the Optimiser altogether? The same tech is already built into your TV, so it's essentially doubling up on the tone mapping and as far as I know you shouldn't have to use it at all.

Depends on the TV. I have mine turned on all the time but I have it set at 1,500 nits (Super High Luminance). Essentially, the TV is tone mapping up to 1,500 nits and then the player takes over from there. Downside is that my TV, the LG C9, can tone map well higher than 1,500 nits. But, the Optimizer only goes up to 1,500. If Panasonic would update it, they could allow us to pinpoint almost exactly the limit TVs can tone map and let the player do the rest. This would create the best picture possible.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Note to all of you Panny 820 users: don't play too much around with the setting that changes it from YCbCr to RGB, especially on a LG C9. Apparently, the TV got very confused from switching from 1 setting to the next and the whole picture looked out of sorts. Made me 2nd guess HDR for a minute. I switched it back to YCbCr last night and took a look at it this afternoon and everything seems just fine. Just letting you all know this in case if you decide to mess with the settings, like myself. I know now to leave it on YCbCr (auto).

[tommyboy81]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

Note to all of you Panny 820 users: don't play too much around with the setting that changes it from YCbCr to RGB, especially on a LG C9. Apparently, the TV got very confused from switching from 1 setting to the next and the whole picture looked out of sorts. Made me 2nd guess HDR for a minute. I switched it back to YCbCr last night and took a look at it this afternoon and everything seems just fine. Just letting you all know this in case if you decide to mess with the settings, like myself. I know now to leave it on YCbCr (auto).

when I got this when it first came out I would mess with the Optimizer and I guess with that on with my TV doing its thing my tv didn't like it. Screen would go black and come with the tv settings being reset. With the 820 Optimizer off I never had another issue.

Luckily it never reset the main calibrated settings on my tv

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

Note to all of you Panny 820 users: don't play too much around with the setting that changes it from YCbCr to RGB, especially on a LG C9. Apparently, the TV got very confused from switching from 1 setting to the next and the whole picture looked out of sorts. Made me 2nd guess HDR for a minute. I switched it back to YCbCr last night and took a look at it this afternoon and everything seems just fine. Just letting you all know this in case if you decide to mess with the settings, like myself. I know now to leave it on YCbCr (auto).

For movies, it's always best to let the player send it as YCbCr 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 (Auto).

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by pbz06

For movies, it's always best to let the player send it as YCbCr 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 (Auto).

Yep! I discovered that one last night, haha! Luckily, I changed it back to YCbCr (auto) and everything looks the way it should!

[dsamilton]

Anyone have the TCL 8 series? What settings on the UB820 would you recommend. I'm seeing differing things online for the HDR peak brightness of the 8 series, for HDR TV Type should I have Super High Luminance or Medium/High luminance on? Thanks in advance

[teddyballgame]

Originally Posted by J Nada

Is there anything else I could look at with regards to the risen blacks? In HDR10, the black bars are very visible, and all the bright lights at night stuff is a lot less pretty as the dark bits are not as dark as they should be...

Yeah, based on what you're describing there I think it's safe to say something is off. My 820 came out of the box with pretty sane defaults so maybe that isn't the issue. You might have look around on your TV for an option relating to HDMI black level.

Try
Menu>Setup>HDMI HDR Setting
Menu>Picture>Advanced Picture>Black Level

These might be worth investigating.

Also, a flaky cable can often be a source of initial problems. I'm no stranger to buying a new piece of equipment but forgetting to get a quality cable to go with it.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by dsamilton

Anyone have the TCL 8 series? What settings on the UB820 would you recommend. I'm seeing differing things online for the HDR peak brightness of the 8 series, for HDR TV Type should I have Super High Luminance or Medium/High luminance on? Thanks in advance

I don't have the 8 series, but I would suggest keeping it at Medium/High luminance.

[teddyballgame]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

Depends on the TV. I have mine turned on all the time but I have it set at 1,500 nits (Super High Luminance). Essentially, the TV is tone mapping up to 1,500 nits and then the player takes over from there. Downside is that my TV, the LG C9, can tone map well higher than 1,500 nits. But, the Optimizer only goes up to 1,500. If Panasonic would update it, they could allow us to pinpoint almost exactly the limit TVs can tone map and let the player do the rest. This would create the best picture possible.

That sounds like your prefer LG's DTM over the Panny HDR Optimizer which is interesting. If you only like the chroma being adjusted for the brightest of highlights then that's understandable I suppose.

As a fellow C9 owner, I was under the impression that it was best practice to select OLED as the HDR display type. Seeing as the HDR Optimizer function only tonemaps the brightest parts of the image then your APL can be more consistent and there's also less chance to crush shadows or unnecessarily lower midtones than with LG's DTM. Obviously the difference between letting LG tone map 4000 nit vs 1500 is more dramatic than 1500 vs 1000, but it's still behaving in the same way, just to a less noticeable extent.

I'll include a link to the video I watched trying to explain this (skip to 9:20):

[Show spoiler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTw_Toh0PzA&feature=youtu.be&t=560

Please let me know if I'm mistaken somehow.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by teddyballgame

That sounds like your prefer LG's DTM over the Panny HDR Optimizer which is interesting. If you only like the chroma being adjusted for the brightest of highlights then that's understandable I suppose.

As a fellow C9 owner, I was under the impression that it was best practice to select OLED as the HDR display type. Seeing as the HDR Optimizer function only tonemaps the brightest parts of the image then your APL can be more consistent and there's also less chance to crush shadows or unnecessarily lower midtones than with LG's DTM. Obviously the difference between letting LG tone map 4000 nit vs 1500 is more dramatic than 1500 vs 1000, but it's still behaving in the same way, just to a less noticeable extent.

I'll include a link to the video I watched trying to explain this (skip to 9:20):

[Show spoiler]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTw_...youtu.be&t=560

Please let me know if I'm mistaken somehow.

You are correct and doing it the better way.

[J Nada]

Originally Posted by J Nada

Could any kind folks give me some settings guidance for HDR10?

Shaun the Sheep: Farmageddon arrived today. As expected, on the 820, this disc flickers in Dolby Vision - not sure why, but it has happened for others too.

So anyway, I turned off DV and it plays fine, but the black level is totally different in HDR10 - I'm not sure if this is how the disc is mastered, or if it is a settings issue.

My TV is a Panasonic 55GZ1000. For DV, it is set to DV Dark mode. For HDR10, it is set to Professional 2. The 820 is set up with the screen choice as OLED, and I am watching it in standard mode on the HDR optimiser. Is there anything else I could look at with regards to the risen blacks? In HDR10, the black bars are very visible, and all the bright lights at night stuff is a lot less pretty as the dark bits are not as dark as they should be...

If anyone else has this disc, it would be good to know if they notice the same thing in HDR10, too.

TIA

Thank you to everyone that chimed in. I did a bit more testing - compared The Wizard of Oz in DV and HDR10, and... the same thing happens!

So it must be something in my settings, but I don't know what. I tried turning the optimiser off, tried playing with the advanced settings in the optimiser (with it on, obviously), so far, no joy

Originally Posted by teddyballgame

Yeah, based on what you're describing there I think it's safe to say something is off. My 820 came out of the box with pretty sane defaults so maybe that isn't the issue. You might have look around on your TV for an option relating to HDMI black level.

Try
Menu>Setup>HDMI HDR Setting
Menu>Picture>Advanced Picture>Black Level

These might be worth investigating.

Also, a flaky cable can often be a source of initial problems. I'm no stranger to buying a new piece of equipment but forgetting to get a quality cable to go with it.

Thank you, I will have a look. Do you have a Panasonic TV too?

[J Nada]

Ahh, found what it was! HDMI YCbCr was set to Full rather than Normal. Not sure why, but swapping back to Normal made it look a lot better...

Dunno when that change happened. Guess I should rewatch some of my recent HDR10 purchases now...

Thanks @teddyballgame, you set me on the right track to finding the culprit. Also thanks to everyone else for being helpful. Much appreciated.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by pbz06

You are correct and doing it the better way.

I have to beg to differ. Upon looking at a few movie titles and comparing between the 1,000 nit setting (OLED) vs. 1,500 nit setting (Super High Luminance), I came to the conclusion that the 1,500 nit setting is better.

Best way to see this is the Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix 4K UHD. It's the scene where Voldemort and Dumbledore Battle at the end of the film. If you look at the spells, you can see the cores of them. When I set the Optimizer on the 1,000 nit setting, the core of the spell looks way too blown out and the color is more reddish. When I set it to 1,500 nits, the core looks much more on par with the rest of the spell color (blue, green) vs. having a red core and blue/green color on the outside.

Again, we have to give credit that the LG C9 actually has a great tone mapping algorithm but starts to fizzle out slightly above 1,5000 nit content. Having the LG's Dynamic Tone Mapping On as well as the Optimizer set to 1,500 nits or Super High Luminance, to me, reproduces the best picture with an LG C9 at this time (until Panasonic Updates their Optimizer). I imagine it as like a booster pack on a Hot Wheels track. The car (TV) begins to slow down (tone map improperly) at a certain part of the track but the booster (Optimizer) helps give the car a boost (tone maps properly). This is the only thing that I will disagree with Vincent Teoh aka HDTV Test on. I agree that the LG C9's algorithm cannot do everything properly, but with the help of the Optimizer, the tone mapping of both can look amazing!!

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

I have to beg to differ. Upon looking at a few movie titles and comparing between the 1,000 nit setting (OLED) vs. 1,500 nit setting (Super High Luminance), I came to the conclusion that the 1,500 nit setting is better.

Best way to see this is the Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix 4K UHD. It's the scene where Voldemort and Dumbledore Battle at the end of the film. If you look at the spells, you can see the cores of them. When I set the Optimizer on the 1,000 nit setting, the core of the spell looks way too blown out and the color is more reddish. When I set it to 1,500 nits, the core looks much more on par with the rest of the spell color (blue, green) vs. having a red core and blue/green color on the outside.

Again, we have to give credit that the LG C9 actually has a great tone mapping algorithm but starts to fizzle out slightly above 1,5000 nit content. Having the LG's Dynamic Tone Mapping On as well as the Optimizer set to 1,500 nits or Super High Luminance, to me, reproduces the best picture with an LG C9 at this time (until Panasonic Updates their Optimizer). I imagine it as like a booster pack on a Hot Wheels track. The car (TV) begins to slow down (tone map improperly) at a certain part of the track but the booster (Optimizer) helps give the car a boost (tone maps properly). This is the only thing that I will disagree with Vincent Teoh aka HDTV Test on. I agree that the LG C9's algorithm cannot do everything properly, but with the help of the Optimizer, the tone mapping of both can look amazing!!

I don't have an LG so I'll take your word for it. Everything I have seen is that the HDR Optimizer doesn't alter nor touch anything in the picture other than the "nits" above the target, which is the benefit of it because it maintains the proper EOTF and accuracy, and the intended APL. This is also based on my experience. Dynamic tonemappers like in LG tend to lift midtones and low end in order to resolve more detail...so yes, while you see more detail in specific scenes, it's brightening the image as well. This is why Vincent also compliments Sony's DTM on the A8H/A9G, because while it doesn't resolve as much highlight detail, it maintains the accurate APL.

[teddyballgame]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

I have to beg to differ. Upon looking at a few movie titles and comparing between the 1,000 nit setting (OLED) vs. 1,500 nit setting (Super High Luminance), I came to the conclusion that the 1,500 nit setting is better.

Interesting, I'll have to check it out and see what I can notice. I think a spears and munsil UHD disc will also be helpful as they have HDR test patterns at varying light levels. The tough part is trying to hold that snapshot in your mind while you adjust a setting and recheck a certain scene. If only I had two of everything 😂

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by teddyballgame

Interesting, I'll have to check it out and see what I can notice. I think a spears and munsil UHD disc will also be helpful as they have HDR test patterns at varying light levels. The tough part is trying to hold that snapshot in your mind while you adjust a setting and recheck a certain scene. If only I had two of everything 😂

The demo scenes will be more useful because it cycles through actual real content. Use the 4000 nit version and simpy pause it and cycle HDR Optimizer on vs off. The TV shouldn't change picture level, only the highlights will look resolved vs blown out. However, use the LG DTM and you'll see the curve and APL adjust. That's what Vincent explaisn in several of his videos...

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by teddyballgame

Interesting, I'll have to check it out and see what I can notice. I think a spears and munsil UHD disc will also be helpful as they have HDR test patterns at varying light levels. The tough part is trying to hold that snapshot in your mind while you adjust a setting and recheck a certain scene. If only I had two of everything ��

That's why that Harry Potter scene is a great comparison. It literally goes from being reddish and overblown at 1,000 nits and fairly normal at 1,500 nits due to the fact that the TV is then doing the work rather than the player since Order of the Phoenix's Max is at 1,350 or so nits.

I also did comparisons between Disney +'s stream of Endgame vs. my UHD Disc. Disney + is all in Dolby Vision and of course my UHD is HDR. As we all know with Disney UHD's, the Optimizer doesn't do anything to the movie at a 1,000 nits as well as 1,500 nits settings so it's all up to the TV. When you have the Dynamic Tone Mapping Setting to "Off," the picture looks a lot darker than the Dolby Vision Stream. But when turning it "On," the UHD HDR picture looks to be on par with the Dolby Vision Stream. To me, that says Dynamic Tone Mapping should be left "On" at all times. And because of my observations and comparisons of various movies between 1,000 nit and 1,500 nit settings, I feel as though 1,500 nits is a good choice for the LG C9.

I think people need to realize that these settings are merely suggestions. You have to think that when the 820 came out, TV tone mapping algorithms were not that great. This is why Panasonic set their OLED setting to 1,000 nits. Now, TV tone mapping algorithms have gotten better. Are they perfect? No, but at least they are good enough to where we can now set the Optimizer at the highest setting. Again, I understand why Vincent would say that you shouldn't have Dynamic Tone Mapping "On" if that's all you had and a UHD player that wasn't the 820. But with the 820, you can leave it on and engage the Optimizer to take care of the tone mapping of higher nit content.

[dsamilton]

Sorry if this has already been discussed. Should I have the ub820 set to 4K/60p(4:4:4) or 4:2:0? Currently have the TCL 8 series

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by dsamilton

Sorry if this has already been discussed. Should I have the ub820 set to 4K/60p(4:4:4) or 4:2:0? Currently have the TCL 8 series

Leave that one at 4:4:4. It's only for 60p content though, FYI. The setting within the advanced menu, you can do either 4:2:2 or 4:4:4. You would need to test with patterns to see which provides best results, but it would be almost non discernable unless you're pixel peeping.