Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[JohnAV]

AT&T is panicking, they acquire Warner, put there own people in charge, but don't know how to market movies or streaming content at all.

Warner Bros. to release every 2021 movie on HBO Max at same time as theaters - EW.com

The studio is taking the unprecedented step of not just releasing Wonder Woman 1984 on HBO Max this month, but also every one of its films in 2021 — the whole slate, from Dune to The Matrix 4. Every film will be released day-and-date in theaters and on the new streaming service.

The lineup of 17 films includes The Little Things, Judas and the Black Messiah, Tom & Jerry, Godzilla vs. Kong, Mortal Kombat, Those Who Wish Me Dead, The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It, In The Heights, Space Jam: A New Legacy, The Suicide Squad, Reminiscence, Malignant, Dune, The Many Saints of Newark, King Richard, Cry Macho, and Matrix 4. The company released a promotional video, above, touting the news.

Now this article also provided the perfect summary of HBO Max's plight.

While Warner Bros. parent WarnerMedia has some pressures of its own — HBO Max is a major initiative for the company, but the service has only signed on 8.6 million U.S. subscribers since it launched last May (compared to Disney+ gaining 60 million members since launching in late 2019). The company hopes to have 50 million subscribers by 2025.

For comparisons

• Disney + has 73.7 million subscribers
• Netflix has 200 million subscribers

So ticking off this industry, theater chains, unable to acquire subscribers sorta point to a spruce goose scenario.

The largest wooden airplane ever constructed, and flown only one time, the Spruce Goose represents one of humanity's greatest attempts to conquer the skies. It was born out of a need to move troops and material across the Atlantic Ocean, where in 1942, German submarines were sinking hundreds of Allied ships.

The winged giant made only one flight on November 2, 1947. The unannounced decision to fly was made by Hughes during a taxi test. With Hughes at the controls, David Grant as co-pilot, and several engineers, crewmen and journalists on board, the Spruce Goose flew just over one mile at an altitude of 70 feet for one minute. The short hop proved to skeptics that the gigantic machine could fly.

Rolling everything into one subscription service by AT&T is a hot mess.
No 4K
Poor navigation
Overly wide content grouping. Want to fine Criterion content you need to look in Turner Classic Movies.

Just illustrates a bungled web interface designed to get this Titanic away from the dock and looking for a Iceberg but only in the USA because HBO Max is nowhere else.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Rolling everything into one subscription service by AT&T is a hot mess.
No 4K
Poor navigation
Overly wide content grouping. Want to fine Criterion content you need to look in Turner Classic Movies.

Is this a misprint?

All films will be available in 4K Ultra HD and HDR on HBO Max.

Have never tried any of the Warner streaming stuff (HBO x, y, z). Hated to see Warner acquired by AT&T. Figured they would make a mess of a once great studio.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Is this a misprint?
Have never tried any of the Warner streaming stuff (HBO x, y, z). Hated to see Warner acquired by AT&T. Figured they would make a mess of a once great studio.

Up to now HBO Max has been no 4K. This would be their first example.

HBO Max is one of the most expensive streaming services at $14.99, but unlike the majority of its competitors, it has not previously included any 4K or HDR content.

But the problem is if they go that way, then you just ruined any consumer justification to see it in in the USA theaters chains later. No separate charge for this month long premium content access.

[alchav21]

Well I told you guys that this day was coming, and now it's here. Tent Pole Movies straight to Streaming, I think this is exciting but many people don't. The Exhibition Model is changing, and it will never be the same. I stopped going to the Cinema years ago except for special occasions, so to me things won't change that much it will only get better. We'll have to see what happens to Disc Distribution!

[JohnAV]

AMC CEO Delivers Harsh Response to Warner’s HBO Max Plans - Collider

“These coronavirus-impacted times are uncharted waters for all of us, which is why AMC signed on to an HBO Max exception to customary practices for one film only, Wonder Woman 1984, being released by Warner Brothers at Christmas when the pandemic appears that it will be at its height. However, Warner now hopes to do this for all their 2021 theatrical movies, despite the likelihood that with vaccines right around the corner the theatre business is expected to recover.

Clearly, Warner Media intends to sacrifice a considerable portion of the profitability of its movie studio division, and that of its production partners and filmmakers, to subsidize its HBO Max start up. As for AMC, we will do all in our power to ensure that Warner does not do so at our expense. We will aggressively pursue economic terms that preserve our business.

WarnerMedia’s HBO Max Movie Move Sinks Exhibition Stocks, Throws Down Streaming Gauntlet - Deadline

In an interview with Deadline, WarnerMedia CEO Jason Kilar said he’s committed to exhibition and the decision was purely pandemic related. But several analysts interviewed Thursday saw the move as largely AT&T/HBO Max and Wall Street driven. “It signals that AT&T clearly recognizes investors are going to reward them more for gaining subscribers for HBO Max than any other metric within the company,” said Eric Handler of MKM Partners. (AT&T shares firmed 0.48%.)

HBO Max has been slow out of the gate and at circa 8.6 million activated subscribers hasn’t swapped out all the HBO subs who could jump on for free or attracted a wave of newcomers to the service. At $14.99, it is at the high end of the streaming price range and given its roots in HBO as a premium pay-TV add-on, it hasn’t been able to do any Disney- or Apple-style deep discounting. In a crowded streaming market, high-end titles from Godzilla vs. Kong and Mortal Kombat to In The Heights, Space Jam: A New Legacy, Dune, and Matrix 4 —could drive growth, especially at no extra charge for subscribers.

The telco and media giant AT&T also is loaded with a mountain of debt (about $149 billion) so the gambit is risky. “If you take all of your films in 2021 and do a simultaneous window, it is highly doubtful that they will be able to attract enough subscribers to compensate for the lost theatrical revenue. Are they still going to spend $100 million or $200 million to market the big films? Losses incurred from HBO Max could be massive next year,” Handler said.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by alchav21

We'll have to see what happens to Disc Distribution!

I expect very little will change. Instead of movies being released on disc 3-4 months after their theatrical release they will be released on disc 3-4 months after their theatrical/streaming release.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by alchav21

We'll have to see what happens to Disc Distribution!

The only change coming is the combining of Warner Bros and Universal into a 10 year joint venture:

The new domestic joint venture, will distribute Blu-ray, DVD and 4K UHD for new releases, library titles and television content in U.S. and Canada and combine sales, retail marketing and distribution ops for both majors. Leadership from Universal and Warner Bros. will be involved in this new partnership and be presided over by industry veteran Eddie Cunningham.

Under their new home entertainment license arrangements, Universal will distribute Warner Bros.’ physical home entertainment products in Germany, Austria, Switzerland and Japan, with an anticipated start date of Q3 this year. Warner Bros. will oversee the distribution of Universal’s physical home entertainment products in the U.K., Italy and Benelux (Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg) starting Q1 2021.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Well I told you guys that this day was coming, and now it's here. Tent Pole Movies straight to Streaming, I think this is exciting but many people don't. The Exhibition Model is changing, and it will never be the same. I stopped going to the Cinema years ago except for special occasions, so to me things won't change that much it will only get better. We'll have to see what happens to Disc Distribution!

Just watch AT&T ROE. That’s the profitability ratio calculated as net income divided by shareholders’ equity. AT&T Inc.’s ROE deteriorated from 2017 to 2018 and from 2018 to 2019. 2019 to 2020 results are poor. Last 2020 quarter it was only 6.32%.

AT&T Inc.’s gross profit margin ratio improved from Q1 2020 to Q2 2020 but then deteriorated significantly from Q2 2020 to Q3 2020. HBO Max is not a money magnet.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Well I told you guys that this day was coming, and now it's here. Tent Pole Movies straight to Streaming, I think this is exciting but many people don't. The Exhibition Model is changing, and it will never be the same. I stopped going to the Cinema years ago except for special occasions, so to me things won't change that much it will only get better. We'll have to see what happens to Disc Distribution!

I have been reading your tripe for years and I have no recollection of you ever predicting a global pandemic that would close theaters and send new movies to streaming services for their premieres.

All of this is temporary; the pandemic won't last forever. People and movie premieres will both return to the cinema.

In the meantime, with little to no theatrical exhibition revenue, remaining sources of revenue, such as physical media, have become more important. Disc releases will continue; where a new movie debuts will not change that. The release on disc of Mulan 2020 drove all disc sales into the green for the week following its release. Disc sales are largely inspired by big new titles and 2020 saw few such releases.

Lastly, for a so-called tech company AT&T's SVOD service, HBOMax, does not even offer content in 4K. Being limited to hd streams and at the high price of $14.99 per month is hardly an example of things "getting better." It is rather an example of AT&T's incompetence and greed.

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

AT&T is panicking, they acquire Warner, put there own people in charge, but don't know how to market movies or streaming content at all.

Warner Bros. to release every 2021 movie on HBO Max at same time as theaters - EW.com



Now this article also provided the perfect summary of HBO Max's plight.



For comparisons

• Disney + has 73.7 million subscribers
• Netflix has 200 million subscribers

So ticking off this industry, theater chains, unable to acquire subscribers sorta point to a spruce goose scenario.



Rolling everything into one subscription service by AT&T is a hot mess.
No 4K
Poor navigation
Overly wide content grouping. Want to fine Criterion content you need to look in Turner Classic Movies.

Just illustrates a bungled web interface designed to get this Titanic away from the dock and looking for a Iceberg but only in the USA because HBO Max is nowhere else.

You'll have 4K. WW84 wil have 4K DV/HDR, etc. They've already said that, so I guarantee the rest of that slate will have it.

I knew this was going to happen once they announced WW84 for Christmas. I'm for it since I cannot go to the theaters here. We're also coming down to the next mandatory lockdown.

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Up to now HBO Max has been no 4K. This would be their first example.

WW84 will be their first example.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I have being reading your tripe for years and I have no recollection of you ever predicting a global pandemic that would close theaters and send new movies to streaming services for their premieres.

All of this is temporary; the pandemic won't last forever. People and movie premieres will both return to the cinema.

Lastly, for a so-called tech company AT&T is offering one of the most expensive SVOD services, HBOMax, and it does not even offer content in 4K. Being limited to hd streams and at the price $14.99 per month is hardly an example of things "getting better." It is rather an example of AT&T's incompetence and greed.

You do have a way of having selective memory, but nobody could have predicted a pandemic. You're so good about digging up previous Posts, I did talk about First Run Movies coming to Streaming at the same time with Theatrical Release.

As for people coming back to the Cinema like before, I think that has changed with the pandemic. Home Theaters as you know are getting better, and people will be reluctant to go back to crowded questionable Cinemas.

I guess you haven't heard, with WW84 HBOMax is upgrading their Streaming Service in 4K HDR, Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos:

https://www.cnet.com/news/hbo-max-wi...d-dolby-atmos/

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You do have a way of having selective memory, but nobody could have predicted a pandemic. You're so good about digging up previous Posts, I did talk about First Run Movies coming to Streaming at the same time with Theatrical Release.

As for people coming back to the Cinema like before, I think that has changed with the pandemic. Home Theaters as you know are getting better, and people will be reluctant to go back to crowded questionable Cinemas.

I guess you haven't heard, with WW84 HBOMax is upgrading their Streaming Service in 4K HDR, Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos:

https://www.cnet.com/news/hbo-max-wi...d-dolby-atmos/

What you fail to understand is that the simultaneous debut of movies at cinemas and streaming services is temporary. Life will return to normal and that means movies will once again debut at cinemas first. People will attend theaters, concerts, plays and sporting events in large numbers when they feel safe doing so.

Where a movie debuts will not harm disc sales. Those who value what physical media offers will still choose it.

Disney+ offered 4K from their launch date and for just $7 per month. AT&T needs nearly 7 months from their launch date (May 27, 2020) to add 4K to their $14.99 per month streaming service. Disney+ already has over 70 million subscribers while HBOMAx has less than 9 million. Nothing about AT&T's HBOMax has made streaming better. In fact, AT&T needs all of this extra time just to offer what others services have been providing all along and for less money. Pretty lame that a tech giant like AT&T can't offer what other SVODs have from the outset and at comparable prices.

Many of HBO Max subscribers get the service as a free perk with their AT&T cell phone service. I get it for free according to a recent email from AT&T. There's probably a lot of fine print involved and it is likely a limited time offer that reverts to being a paid add-on to one's cell phone bill after a few weeks or months. I have no use for this probable "Trojan horse" deal.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Just watch AT&T ROE. That’s the profitability ratio calculated as net income divided by shareholders’ equity. AT&T Inc.’s ROE deteriorated from 2017 to 2018 and from 2018 to 2019. 2019 to 2020 results are poor. Last 2020 quarter it was only 6.32%.

AT&T Inc.’s gross profit margin ratio improved from Q1 2020 to Q2 2020 but then deteriorated significantly from Q2 2020 to Q3 2020. HBO Max is not a money magnet.

I guess you know I Retired from AT&T, and been a stock holder for decades. Their stock has been hovering just below $30, but 149 Billion in debt is not good. My solid holdings are in the Telco's, but AT&T is half the price of Verizon stock. This bold move might start to put them back into profitability!

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I guess you know I Retired from AT&T, and been a stock holder for decades. Their stock has been hovering just below $30, but 149 Billion in debt is not good. My solid holdings are in the Telco's, but AT&T is half the price of Verizon stock. This bold move might start to put them back into profitability!

Wall Street was not impressed with the announcement. AT&T ended up 14 cents today while the movie theater stocks took a bad beating.

AT&T's stock has gone nowhere since June 12th. It bounces between $27 and $30. Prior to the fall in March it bounced between $36 and $40.

AT&T keeps talking about debt reduction but they haven't addressed it seriously, like selling assets to pay down debt.

The only saving grace for owning AT&T stock is their dividend which pays 7.12%

[moreorless]

Originally Posted by Vilya

What you fail to understand is that the simultaneous debut of movies at cinemas and streaming services is temporary. Life will return to normal and that means movies will once again debut at cinemas first. People will attend theaters, concerts, plays and sporting events in large numbers when they feel safe doing so.

Where a movie debuts will not harm disc sales. Those who value what physical media offers will still choose it.

Disney+ offered 4K from their launch date and for just $7 per month. AT&T needs nearly 7 months from their launch date (May 27, 2020) to add 4K to their $14.99 per month streaming service. Disney+ already has over 70 million subscribers while HBOMAx has less than 9 million. Nothing about AT&T's HBOMax has made streaming better. In fact, AT&T needs all of this extra time just to offer what others services have been providing all along and for less money. Pretty lame that a tech giant like AT&T can't offer what other SVODs have from the outset and at comparable prices.

Many of HBO Max subscribers get the service as a free perk with their AT&T cell phone service. I get it for free according to a recent email from AT&T. There's probably a lot of fine print involved and it is likely a limited time offer that reverts to being a paid add-on to one's cell phone bill after a few weeks or months. I have no use for this probable "Trojan horse" deal.

I'm guessing there are no definite plans at this point but I can see the logic in that, Basically two issues that could potentially be short term coming together. The lack of box office from cinema in the pandemic and the need to give HBO Max a shot in the arm with exclusive content.

I'm guessing high debt levels perhaps play into that as well, investors and debt holders more comfortable with a company they think is making long term moves for the future.

[bhampton]

Best Buy sent me a 2 week code to hbomax that I intended to watch Gal Gadot with.

My neighbor who used to share HBOMax dropped it. Back when I had hbo, it was pretty boring.

There’s a good movie selection but it was the same stuff I tend to buy.

Films going direct to steaming is sad. When something is the “future” you expect it to be somehow improved or better than what it replaces. Not like something much worse. Steaming is over compressed. Anyone watching an epic new movie on their phone has made a few bad choices.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I have been reading your tripe for years and I have no recollection of you ever predicting a global pandemic that would close theaters and send new movies to streaming services for their premieres.

All of this is temporary; the pandemic won't last forever. People and movie premieres will both return to the cinema.

In the meantime, with little to no theatrical exhibition revenue, remaining sources of revenue, such as physical media, have become more important. Disc releases will continue; where a new movie debuts will not change that. The release on disc of Mulan 2020 drove all disc sales into the green for the week following its release. Disc sales are largely inspired by big new titles and 2020 saw few such releases.

Lastly, for a so-called tech company AT&T's SVOD service, HBOMax, does not even offer content in 4K. Being limited to hd streams and at the high price of $14.99 per month is hardly an example of things "getting better." It is rather an example of AT&T's incompetence and greed.

Warnermedia have stated it’s just for 2021. No doubt going forward, there will be more dual releases but obviously not all. They will copy Disney and go title by title.

Vilya, I think HBO are debuting 4K for WW 1984. It will no doubt be a poor man’s 4K though.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by moreorless

I'm guessing there are no definite plans at this point but I can see the logic in that, Basically two issues that could potentially be short term coming together. The lack of box office from cinema in the pandemic and the need to give HBO Max a shot in the arm with exclusive content.

I'm guessing high debt levels perhaps play into that as well, investors and debt holders more comfortable with a company they think is making long term moves for the future.

I doubt HBO will attract the required numbers, even with this news. It will attract some but I feel WarnerMedia are in serious trouble. This stinks of desperation and I suppose it’s what happens when tech guys run film companies.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Well I told you guys that this day was coming, and now it's here. Tent Pole Movies straight to Streaming, I think this is exciting but many people don't. The Exhibition Model is changing, and it will never be the same. I stopped going to the Cinema years ago except for special occasions, so to me things won't change that much it will only get better. We'll have to see what happens to Disc Distribution!

Use your brain for a few minutes. Think about the long term consequences of no cinema. Seriously, have a good think.