Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga 4K UHD (1977-2019)

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Where did you hear that Lucas planned for Luke to die in the last episode? According to Pablo Hildago:

“...years before The Last Jedi began development, the treatment left behind by George Lucas in 2012 also had Episode 8 be the one wherein Luke Skywalker would die.”

https://comicbook.com/starwars/news/...ath-episode-8/

No. IIRC correctly it was an interview with Rinzler.

Rinzler also said that George can have five different ideas but the one that makes it in the movie was always the "original" one, or the one the always intended to use.

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

I fail to see why Luke was such an issue...
Have it almost center around him and his adventures. Bring in new and old cast and follow them as they leave and rejoin.
If done right, then they will be as good as everyone else.
Only people with no talent can't think of ideas for new stories and kill off old character ls because they can't think of what to do with them.
And yes, this includes Lucas. But not to the extent of JJ and Ruin

They knew what to do with them, but the problem is this trilogy was not supposed to be a second Luke trilogy, he was supposed to be the side character this time. This was about the moving on to the next generation.

One could even more say that only people without talent just live in the past and can't make a story unless it focuses in the main on the 4-6 characters above all else and they can't find anything for any new generation to do....

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

Originally Posted by Martoto

That was how he justified it to Guinness, who was not pleased. Although Leia didn't do anything in the final act either and he didn't kill her off.

although actually she befriended the Ewoks who were critical in helping the Rebel ground force take over the shield generator for one

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

Originally Posted by Bourne1886

I happen to agree with Mark Hamill on this one but anyway it never happened that way as we all know and they went the way they went for whatever reason.

I’d have preferred it to have been different. I’m sure a lot of people didn’t like it maybe as much as the people that did like it. They got what they wanted but others didn’t get what they wanted. Keeping all Fans happy ain’t easy but to treat an established character as Luke like that after everything that happened in the original trilogy just wasn’t right in my book. I’m sure there were some fans out there that wanted better for the character just like me and Mark Hamill. Maybe expected it. Because of what Star Wars means to them. There’s no denying that because this is Star Wars after all, a very divisive subject at times.

It’s ok not to like it and disagree with people who do like it for as long as you want even though it will never change.

whatever happened to being excited to see what happens in a story and going with where it takes you?

these days everyone seems to insist on plotting out all future events in their head and then going insane when they are delivered anything even the slightest bit different and hating anything, even if good, in every single last regard. Isn't is sort of boring if you already know 100% of everything? and these days reactions so often seem over the top. I mean the cantina scene in SW was beloved in '77, people enjoyed seeing all the cool creatures, but today people can't enjoy seeing the casino in Canto and at least marvel at the look and the creatures and characters inside it. Seems like so much less a sense of wonder these days.

if things are done that totally violate what has gone before in deeply fundamental ways, etc. but that tends to not be the case, just someone imagine something different, doesn't get it and goes nuts and they go NUTS. every single damn forum filled with rage and hate and anyone who dares like a movie, gets trashed and laughed at and they make every damn post regarding so many things a sad chore to slog through, if they hate stuff so much then just hate it and be gone, but instead every single damn post about SW (and many other things) in so many forums on so many official SW posts, just rage and mocking and on and on and on to the point those who like it can barely even enjoy talking it any more, and it also become catching since it, these days sadly, become cool to join the 'hip' crowd and to just mock and trash everything and people just end up miserable en mass/ I mean I can understand if people wanted to see a bit of Luke on real adventures and maybe not being quite so harsh to the point of saber tossing at first, but there is still lots of amazing and wonderful stuff in the film, do you hvae to toss is all out? Not everyone was in love with the Ewoks in '83 but few, very, very, very few of even the larger Ewok detractors hated the film overall and most of them saw it tons of times.

and many seem to want to be this ever so brilliant hipster nerd, so above and regular pablum, so much more brilliant than mainstream pop culture, so smart and ready to examine everything with a 100000x power microscope and tear it to shreds and mock this director and that writer and so on for being such morons or being so mainstream empty, etc. What happened to knowing how to enjoy things??? The same people would've torn 4-6 to bits if they were released today with the new mindset. And the crazy thing is, a LOT of the stuff they mock and laugh at, they are objectively wrong about! I mean how many posts did one see about how TLJ was the dumbest, worst movie ever and should be 100% hated from start to finish just because they had bombs falling in space near the start! First, even if the scene had made sense. It was like 20 seconds! It doesn't mean the entire movie is trash and that you have to become too agitated to enjoy the rest! Second, how many rules of physics did 4-6 violate non-stop? How would it be anything new. But richest of all, the scene didn't even violate physics! If these people actually did know physics and truly were so above and beyond brilliant they'd have understand in a couple seconds how the scene actually was entirely technically accurate!

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW

although actually she befriended the Ewoks who were critical in helping the Rebel ground force take over the shield generator for one

That's OK. They would have just created a frog princess to replace Leia for that purpose. Just like they replaced Obi-Wan with a frog Jedi Master.

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

I mean not that everyone has to like everything and that one can't get into deep criticism, but things just seem to have gone off the deep end these days. Just look at youtube and endless videos mocking film after film in over the top, often half nonsensical but totally vicious ways.

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW

. But richest of all, the scene didn't even violate physics! If these people actually did know physics and truly were so above and beyond brilliant they'd have understand in a couple seconds how the scene actually was entirely technically accurate!

There are still many who insist that TFA told us that Luke purposely left a map so that people would find him but TLJ ripped up the continuity. Just one of the phantoms that keep getting chased.

[jess1581]

I'm sure i'll catch heat for this, but regarding TLJ... at some point the franchise needed to grow up a bit... and so do certain Star Wars fans. The Last Jedi to me was an attempt for the series to finally grow up and shake loose of the fan approved checklist, and to pull it out of its strict formula.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by jess1581

I'm sure i'll catch heat for this, but regarding TLJ... at some point the franchise needed to grow up a bit... and so do certain Star Wars fans. The Last Jedi to me was an attempt for the series to finally grow up and shake loose of the fan approved checklist, and to pull it out of its strict formula.

Death... Dismemberment... Tragedy... Failure... Betrayal...
Yeah...
The series was completely "kiddie" before and needed to "grow up"


And even if it did have to, the next to last chapter CERTAINLY wasn't the time to do so and make huge changes to the narrative!

[jess1581]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

Death... Dismemberment... Tragedy... Failure... Betrayal...
Yeah...
The series was completely "kiddie" before and needed to "grow up"


And even if it did have to, the next to last chapter CERTAINLY wasn't the time to do so and make huge changes to the narrative!

You just proved my point with your "limited" viewpoint. You misconstrue story and narrative growth with content. Also betrayal, tragedy, death, and failure are not adult only themes. Just look at just about every disney animated film. Clearly I wasn't saying that Star Wars was "kiddified".

Also it was as good a time as any to break the norm, and predictable routine.

[Martoto]

TLJ is about young Rey finding Luke and going. "Hey, you're the great legend. Just get out there and do legend stuff." And Luke saying "Legends not make one great,...necessarily." Before going on to do something more legendary than anything before.

[Show spoiler]
Coincidentally, or not, Grogu in Mandalorian Chpt 16 is a 50 year old child pawing at a CRT television showing an Return Of The Jedi Luke Skywalker replica action figure and going," Want that one."

[jeangreyforever]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

Death... Dismemberment... Tragedy... Failure... Betrayal...
Yeah...
The series was completely "kiddie" before and needed to "grow up"


And even if it did have to, the next to last chapter CERTAINLY wasn't the time to do so and make huge changes to the narrative!

Besides the fact that George Lucas has called Star Wars a franchise for children, saying Star Wars needs to "grow up" doesn't mean it suddenly needs to become exclusively for adults. What Star Wars needed to do was expand its horizons beyond the same old stories repeated over and over, with the same Skywalkers being the center of the galaxy and the various evil emperors plotting from the background. TLJ set the slate clean for a new story until TROS backtracked.

[jeangreyforever]

Originally Posted by Martoto

I said they need to let their dream sequel trilogy go (the one with Luke from Mandalorian....or something) . Lucas had no intention of fulfilling it so there's little point in continually breaking your heart and everyone else's balls over it.

Lucas wasn't interested in depicting the exploits of Luke Skywalker Jedi Knight beyond Return Of The Jedi (over Hamill's repeated objections I might add). Over thirty years passed but people still think it was wilfully or negligently denied them by Disney or Kennedy. They didn't get what they wanted but it is not for the reasons they want to believe. So they need to let their head canon of what happened behind the scenes and what they imagine was supposed to happen go.

Still doesn't mean they have to like it. You can say the characters and the story weren't developed enough in your opinion all you want. I'm not trying to tell you to agree with me on those opinions. But all the speculation of how Disney and Kennedy or Johnson conspired to push the "wrong" trilogy and the "wrong" Luke on us (or did so through collective ignorance) is pure fan fiction that's at odds with the facts of what actually happened.

Not to mention that Lucas told Hamill from the beginning that if he ever made a ST, Luke would be playing the Obi-Wan role as a mentor. It would never be about Luke as the central character, he would be supporting the new generation, which is exactly what we got.

I'll also add that Hamill is hardly some creative visionary and he himself said there's a reason he's not a writer but an actor. Keep in mind that he wanted ROTJ to end with him taking on Vader's helmet and becoming the new Emperor. Interesting that all of TLJ haters who say that it wasn't their Luke and Mark agrees with them because the "real" Luke would never have lost his innocence or optimism, never had an issue with the fact that Mark wanted Luke to literally become evil at the end of the saga back in 83. So much for only Mark understanding his character.

Meanwhile, Carrie Fisher, a prolific and award-winning writer as well as one of Hollywood's script doctors, actually worked on the script for TLJ and was very pleased with the results, but it doesn't matter to the haters because she didn't write the power fantasy Luke that they were looking to see themselves in. Between the input of Carrie and Mark, I would always choose Carrie.

[jess1581]

Originally Posted by jeangreyforever

Besides the fact that George Lucas has called Star Wars a franchise for children, saying Star Wars needs to "grow up" doesn't mean it suddenly needs to become exclusively for adults. What Star Wars needed to do was expand its horizons beyond the same old stories repeated over and over, with the same Skywalkers being the center of the galaxy and the various evil emperors plotting from the background. TLJ set the slate clean for a new story until TROS backtracked.

See, he gets it. That's why I thought TROS was one of the weakest entries in Star Wars. JJ is a straight up hack and a slave to the ideas of others, that thankfully knows how to put pretty images on screen so TROS wasn't a total loss. Rian went into it as a filmmaker with a singular vision in mind. That's why his film is more distinct than JJ's.

[Martoto]

I think you can give Abrams a little credit for going with "The solution to all the galaxy's is kill your own grandfather." and then Rey actually does it.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by jess1581

JJ is a straight up hack and a slave to the ideas of others

It's called "pastiche."

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Martoto

I think you can give Abrams credit for actually going with "The solution to all the galaxy's is kill your own grandfather." and then Rey actually does it.

It's also very neat that the climax of the movie involves the two grandchildren of the two most evil people in the galaxy instead working to SAVE the galaxy.

[jess1581]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

It's called "pastiche."

Thank you for the clarification, but not sure if you're debating my stance on JJ or no... He makes entertaining pictures, easy to digest, and sugar sweet but his SW films are inferior to Rian's.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by jess1581

Thank you for the clarification, but not sure if you're debating my stance on JJ or no... He makes entertaining pictures, easy to digest, and sugar sweet but his SW films are inferior to Rian's.

That's all Star Wars really needs to be. Entertaining.

[jeangreyforever]

Originally Posted by jess1581

See, he gets it. That's why I thought TROS was one of the weakest entries in Star Wars. JJ is a straight up hack and a slave to the ideas of others, that thankfully knows how to put pretty images on screen so TROS wasn't a total loss. Rian went into it as a filmmaker with a singular vision in mind. That's why his film is more distinct than JJ's.

Originally Posted by Hardback247

It's called "pastiche."

She, but yes.

I wouldn't call JJ's movies pastiche. More like nostalgia, since he wants to recreate his childhood memories of Star Wars, but the problem is that JJ doesn't really have an original thought of his own.

And TFA still works because there were so many writers before JJ who worked on the story and Lawrence Kasdan helped balance him out. TROS was purely the work of JJ and Chris Terrio and Terrio brought out the worst in him. I agree though that JJ can make visually pleasing films, even if TROS suffers from way too much blue.