Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by bhampton

I guess you and I need to graduate to “separates”. (I think that’s what the next level is called) mono price may be the key.

I've got two Emotiva power amps, I use the preouts on the Denon receiver... The Denon only powers my Atmos speakers. I go with an AVR over a pre-amp in case one or both of the Emotiva's ever break.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by bhampton

I guess you and I need to graduate to “separates”. (I think that’s what the next level is called) mono price may be the key.

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...s-vs-separates

I was thinking about asking that very question, but didn’t know if you were still pulling some power off the receiver for heights or something.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

Yeah, it's covered by warranty... If it wasn't under warranty though, I'd still likely be able to get it repaired for free, as Australian consumer law overrides the manufacturers warranty, and usually protects us pretty well outside of the warranty period for quite a while.

I had no idea that was a thing in Australia. I guess that makes buying extended warranties not necessary.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by gotmule

Vilya had his Denon die on him, but I know he had it for awhile.

My Denon AVR 4806 served me for 14 years, so I have no complaints about longevity. Hopefully, my new Marantz SR 7013 will also have a long lifespan.

I still want to have the cause of death for my Denon determined. It still lights up all nice and pretty; it just won't output any sound- not even the test tone. If a simple fix would resurrect it, it would be worth repairing, but when is anything simple?

[Vilya]

I learned a valuable lesson today; I am in no condition to shovel snow- not even a tiny patch.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by bhampton

I guess you and I need to graduate to “separates”. (I think that’s what the next level is called) mono price may be the key.

Not sure you would save a lot of money because the better AVP’s tend to be quite pricey. I have always preferred separates because of flexibility and power output capability. Good commercial grade audio gear can last a long time, some of mine below.

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Agreed. My Crown DC-300 audio amp will soon be 48 years old. My Hafler amps (3) and Crown PS-400 are 37 years old. During this time there have been 8 different pre/processors used to feed them. 2 Crown XLS 1000 amps were added for Atmos/DTS:X.

Old Crown amps in good condition sell for several hundred even today, one here.

Have only had problems with one AVP, a Onkyo PR-SC5508. The HDMI chips ran so hot you could not touch the top of the unit. Worse still, Onkyo did not attach any heat sinks to these chips so I placed a 120mm fan to blow over it. It failed after awhile but Onkyo did replace the board under warranty and provided an extended warranty for a low cost which I purchased. Sold it right after the Yamaha CX-A5100 came on the market and I procured one which I still have.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I learned a valuable lesson today; I am in no condition to shovel snow- not even a tiny patch.

Shoveling can be a scary proposition for someone’s health. Be careful, as I know we have some more coming this week.

I remember as a kid going to neighbors houses to shovel snow for $5. I can’t remember ever seeing that sort of thing happen in my neighborhood during the last 20 years. Is that even a thing anymore?

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by gotmule

Shoveling can be a scary proposition for someone’s health. Be careful, as I know we have some more coming this week.

I remember as a kid going to neighbors houses to shovel snow for $5. I can’t remember ever seeing that sort of thing happen in my neighborhood during the last 20 years. Is that even a thing anymore?

Probably not as the cost of snow blowers is very reasonable today.

I too shoveled (in L.I.) for $5 a house. Then in the summer I did yard work for $5 a house. Only way a 13 year old kid could make money back then. Also did babysitting for my across the street neighbor. $1 an hour.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Probably not as the cost of snow blowers is very reasonable today.

I too shoveled (in L.I.) for $5 a house. Then in the summer I did yard work for $5 a house. Only way a 13 year old kid could make money back then. Also did babysitting for my across the street neighbor. $1 an hour.

I cut a few lawns also, but never baby sat.

I remember as a 13 yr old in New Jersey, shoveling a driveway of a neighbor in the morning and getting $5. In the afternoon, I was at Alexander’s Dept Store with my Dad, and blind bought Meat Loaf Bat Out Of Hell for $3.99 plus tax and paid for it with the $5. I had never heard anything from it as it had just come out about a month earlier, and the only reason I bought it was because the album cover looked cool to me.

I go home and put it on my little Panasonic stereo with Thrusters speakers and was mesmerized by what I heard.

Funny I can remember stuff like that, but couldn’t tell you a damn thing I was supposedly taught in Physics class.

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by gotmule

I cut a few lawns also, but never baby sat.

I remember as a 13 yr old in New Jersey, shoveling a driveway of a neighbor in the morning and getting $5. In the afternoon, I was at Alexander’s Dept Store with my Dad, and blind bought Meat Loaf Bat Out Of Hell for $3.99 plus tax and paid for it with the $5. I had never heard anything from it as it had just come out about a month earlier, and the only reason I bought it was because the album cover looked cool to me.

I go home and put it on my little Panasonic stereo with Thrusters speakers and was mesmerized by what I heard.

Funny I can remember stuff like that, but couldn’t tell you a damn thing I learned in Physics class.

That is still one of my favorite albums of all time.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Vilya

My Denon AVR 4806 served me for 14 years, so I have no complaints about longevity. Hopefully, my new Marantz SR 7013 will also have a long lifespan.

I still want to have the cause of death for my Denon determined. It still lights up all nice and pretty; it just won't output any sound- not even the test tone. If a simple fix would resurrect it, it would be worth repairing, but when is anything simple?

Its likely something concerning power supplies. You got a great life out of yours. The Denon AVR x4500 line was annual refresh until the last model, it hails from the 3310/3311/3312/3313CI -> x4000 -> x4100, x4200, x4300, x4400, x4500, the skipped to x4700. Its undergone 7.2 to 9.2 with more DSP crunching for various immersive audio, and video processing support and pass-through. Todays x4700 runs warm to hot depending on its placement. It's just too crammed IMHO. It is the mid line AVR that usually sees decent discounting all the time.

You 4806 is considerable larger, but it is also a Dinosaur.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I learned a valuable lesson today; I am in no condition to shovel snow- not even a tiny patch.

You need a Gold coated spade to shovel yourself out of the shit!

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by gotmule

I had no idea that was a thing in Australia. I guess that makes buying extended warranties not necessary.

Yeah, it makes them practically redundant. Before the current Australian consumer law legislation was implemented, I did purchase extended warranties, but I didn't pay very much for them, as my brother used to work for one of Australias largest consumer electronics retailers.

[Ender14]

I finally ordered a region free Blu-ray player from 220-electronics. Now with all of the options available to me I can spend WAY more money than I should.

[RefractiveIndex]

Does anyone think that without physical media the catalogue remaster business would suffer immensly?

It really does seem like the enthusiast movie fan scene continues to revolve almost entirely around physical media despite the increasing popularity of digital. A newly remastered catalogue 4K title without a physical release, will often sneak onto a digital platform with little fanfare and it's barely noticed for months. And even when it is noticed then it's not really taken seriously by enthusiasts unless a physical copy is made available later and using the same exact source. Good luck trying to get anyone to notice a fresh HD upgrade on a digital library at all!

Then you have perks like iTunes free upgrade which deprives studios the opportunity to sell the upgraded film to "owners" of the previous version. Yes it's great value for consumers but many of these upgrades cost of a lot of resources to produce and likely not commercially sustainable if we were living in world with no physical media.

I'd like to see a breakdown of releases like Lord of the Rings 4k and see how revenues differ when they already have massive install base on digital getting free upgrades compared to physical owners paying £75 to £100 for the set. Would studios be able to justify these types of efforts if 90% of the audience is getting it for free?

It's often the limited collectors edition run of many remasters that ultimately fund the restoration/remastering work done and get the product noticed by the masses. How would studios emulate this if a film is buried in a huge digital library and the platform owners have little interest in marketing older films to the masses?

I think even though physical media will share a smaller portion of the revenue pie going into the future it still serves as an important part of the home entertainment ecosystem beyond just comparing revenues directly. Keeping the enthusiasts happy is very important and I think most studios realise this except for perhaps Disney and Netflix who can get away with pushing their agenda on everyone.

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by RefractiveIndex

Does anyone think that without physical media the catalogue remaster business would suffer immensly?

It really does seem like the enthusiast movie fan scene continues to revolve almost entirely around physical media despite the increasing popularity of digital. A newly remastered catalogue 4K title without a physical release, will often sneak onto a digital platform with little fanfare and it's barely noticed for months. And even when it is noticed then it's not really taken seriously by enthusiasts unless a physical copy is made available later and using the same exact source. Good luck trying to get anyone to notice a fresh HD upgrade on a digital library at all!

Then you have perks like iTunes free upgrade which deprives studios the opportunity to sell the upgraded film to "owners" of the previous version. Yes it's great value for consumers but many of these upgrades cost of a lot of resources to produce and likely not commercially sustainable if we were living in world with no physical media.

I'd like to see a breakdown of releases like Lord of the Rings 4k and see how revenues differ when they already have massive install base on digital getting free upgrades compared to physical owners paying £75 to £100 for the set. Would studios be able to justify these types of efforts if 90% of the audience is getting it for free?

It's often the limited collectors edition run of many remasters that ultimately fund the restoration/remastering work done and get the product noticed by the masses. How would studios emulate this if a film is buried in a huge digital library and the platform owners have little interest in marketing older films to the masses?

I think even though physical media will share a smaller portion of the revenue pie going into the future it still serves as an important part of the home entertainment ecosystem beyond just comparing revenues directly. Keeping the enthusiasts happy is very important and I think most studios realise this except for perhaps Disney and Netflix who can get away with pushing their agenda on everyone.

I agree that it would suffer. I would bet that the average streaming consumer has little to no interest in remastered classic movies and would not be willing to pay the same amount physical collectors do for such releases. Of course that is assuming EST because I don't see streaming services footing the bill for a product that will do little to draw consumers to their service in large numbers. At the end of the day the number of subscribers is all they care about.

We have had an embarrassment of riches over the past year when it comes to catalog releases from boutique studios and even some of the majors. The fact that Universal is releasing Touch of Evil in 4k is amazing and shows they still see the potential in physical media. Even though the masses may abandon it there is still good money to be made from those who love cinema.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Looks like Apple TV may finally get integer and fractional frame rates (here). If the Apple TV Atmos MAT will play nice with my AVP then I will add one to my equipment rack.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by RefractiveIndex

I think even though physical media will share a smaller portion of the revenue pie going into the future it still serves as an important part of the home entertainment ecosystem beyond just comparing revenues directly. Keeping the enthusiasts happy is very important and I think most studios realise this except for perhaps Disney and Netflix who can get away with pushing their agenda on everyone.

It would be interesting to know how much influence the disc sections in the big box stores has on movie purchases and other hardware. The amount Walmart has spent on new disc racks and signage has to be a tidy sum.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by Ender14

I finally ordered a region free Blu-ray player from 220-electronics. Now with all of the options available to me I can spend WAY more money than I should.

Which one did you go with if you don’t mind me asking?

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by gotmule

Which one did you go with if you don’t mind me asking?

I got the Sony BDP-S6500. I wanted something that would do 4K up-conversion and that one had pretty good reviews. Only $179 after coupon code.