Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by panasonicst60

I know exactly what hdr10, DV, and dtm is so you don't have to elaborate. I'll end it like this. As long as you're happy with your settings then it's all good. I'm surely happy with my calibrated, dtm turn off, on regular old hrd10

And honestly, that's what it should be! As long as each of us are happy watching how we want to, then that's all that matters!

[Panaguy]

Hello to all of you guys!

You can count me in as still another more owner of this very complex machine the UB9000!
I had originally planned to get it for UHD playing only, since I'm already fully satisfied by my Panasonic BDT700, and even my Denon DVD-A1XVA and Sony DVP-S9000ES (for DVD and music playing) remember those tanks? I even still use like a treasure a Pioneer HLD-X9 LD player but that's another story... I wanted to be "4K ready" and to start collecting UHD discs even though I still have a 1080P display for the time being.

However, I couldn't pass on the standard DVD and BR (and redbook CD) playing capabilities of such a beast, and so I started to evaluate SD and HD (and CD) playing/upconverting performances. And that's where the trouble began. There are two major problems: non region-unlockable and failed Pluge below black level.

I live in Region 2/B territory, and since by preferred choice I mostly own NTSC DVDs, I have a good deal of R1 DVDs and mostly Region A Blu-Rays, and all of my machines were successfully region unlocked. I thought it would be as simple as a firmware disc on my BDT700, but how I was wrong! The original supplier does not provide enhanced firmware discs anymore, and only offers hardware modification for this player. So I applied for a contribution to the developper of specially designed for Panasonic players enhanced firmware downloads. Unfortunately again, since I couldn't send him the same day the requested pictures of my device I was blacklisted! I'm now toasted for multi-region playing of DVD/BR on this player. Of course I still have the awesome BDT700 for that (and the other two for DVD) but still it's disappointing and frustrating.

But here is the worst part: I made a tradition of calibrating my players with DVE (Digital Video Essentials) disc from Joe Kane's productions on DVD section. All of my three players displayed the darker than black Pluge pattern on the disc flawlessly, NOT the UB9000! I tried every possible setting but to no avail. I may have a faulty player because it was praised in an online review as passing the below black Pluge test without any problem. Clipping below black was a calveat of low-end players, less than stellar so-called top ends and faulty batches of players 15-20 years ago! Such a low performance indicator on such a high-end machine is utterly unacceptable to me, and it makes black level calibration definitely impossible with this disc. My UB9000 is starting to collect big drawbacks, and I don't know if this is a firmware defect (I have 1.60) , a special limitation for some countries (who knows why? ), or a failure due to this particular serial number device.

So please did you already hear about that problem on this player, the culprit and the solution?
Thank you very much to all of you!

[Geoff D]

You can buy a remote that can unlock multiregion DVD playback, or if you have a 'oneforall' remote you can program it yourself.

But these Panny UHD players are pretty poor for NTSC DVD playback anyway, they don't deinterlace 480i as well as they could do and NTSC DVDs can look rather 'jagged' as a result.

[evoll]

Originally Posted by panasonicst60

I know exactly what hdr10, DV, and dtm is so you don't have to elaborate. Hdr10 on a calibrated oled does not look dim at all. As long as your eotf is right on hdr then the picture should look the way it should. Eotf is a standard for hdr.

I'll end it like this. As long as you're happy with your settings then it's all good. I'm surely happy with my calibrated, dtm turn off, on regular old hrd10 I'm all about reference over preference. You sound like the complete opposite, which is fine. I'm out.

I have dtm off as well and I think Vincent said to turn it off also when using the optimizer. Unless someone can show me how dtm on lg oled is following the eotf curve I will leave it off.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by evoll

I have dtm off as well and I think Vincent said to turn it off also when using the optimizer. Unless someone can show me how dtm on lg oled is following the eotf curve I will leave it off.

That's the safer setting, but unless you're calibrated you might not be following EOTF accurately anyway.

I think all he's saying is to try it out in case you get good results that you like, he's not really arguing right or wrong.

[tama]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

To add, I got it calibrated from Value Electronics, so yes they know what they are doing when it comes to calibrating. The image doesn't look bad, just too dim. Day scenes look too dim but with Dynamic Tone Mapping "On," Day scenes look like they were shot during the day.

I feel like you are basing a lot what you know about Dynamic Tone Mapping by your experiences with your C8. But your C8's Dynamic Tone Mapping is not as good or great as the C9 or CX. The only complaints people say about the Dynamic Tone Mapping is that the contrast/brightness gets too bright on higher HDR Graded Content. That's where my Optimizer Comes in and remedies that problem. I have it set at "Super High Luminance." which allows the TV tone map till 1,500 nits than the player takes over after that.

I remember you stating your set came calibrated with DTM actually turned off.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by pbz06

That's the safer setting, but unless you're calibrated you might not be following EOTF accurately anyway.

I think all he's saying is to try it out in case you get good results that you like, he's not really arguing right or wrong.

That’s exactly what I have been saying: just try it out and see what happens. What I have seen could be different to others, considering my panel has been calibrated. I know Vincent has said that DTM shouldn’t be used, but he didn’t say it shouldn’t be used with the Optimizer. In fact, I don’t think anyone has actually tested that yet. Using the LG DTM with the Panasonic Optimizer.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by tama

I remember you stating your set came calibrated with DTM actually turned off.

Correct. But I’m also using the Optimizer on the Panasonic 820. The biggest complaint for DTM is blown out highlights. But with using the Optimizer, the player can correct that issue and help tone map those highlights that the DTM fails to produce. Again, these are only my results and it could be different on non-calibrated panels and older LG OLED models where DTM is not great.

[tama]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

That’s exactly what I have been saying: just try it out and see what happens. What I have seen could be different to others, considering my panel has been calibrated. I know Vincent has said that DTM shouldn’t be used, but he didn’t say it shouldn’t be used with the Optimizer. In fact, I don’t think anyone has actually tested that yet. Using the LG DTM with the Panasonic Optimizer.

Yes, he did. And he said leave it off in favor of the other. in fact Vincent stated in a video when he reviewed the B7 long ago that he didn't like the way it tracked and advised to leave it off as to not stray away from the creators intent.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by tama

Yes, he did. And he said leave it off in favor of the other. in fact Vincent stated in a video when he reviewed the B7 long ago that he didn't like the way it tracked and advised to leave it off as to not stray away from the creators intent.

That was for the B7. The LG DTM technology has advanced since then. Yes it’s still flawed, but not as bad.

[Geoff D]

The question is do we adhere to what's correct (or as close to correct as possible) or to what looks good to us? I'm not a fan of 'stacking' tone mapping tech on top of each other as too many variables are introduced, but then if a TV's internal 'static' mapping still sucks even with the Optimiser enabled then I can see why DTM might then be used.

[tama]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

That was for the B7. The LG DTM technology has advanced since then. Yes it’s still flawed, but not as bad.

No, it was on a C9. These Panny players weren't out just yet when the B7 was released. Just also stating Vincent hasn't been a fan of DTM since then as it was the first OLED it was employed on.

I have on order a CX from VE also with a calibration ordered so hope to have it soon. But speaking with a local calibrator who advised me to move on to a new set after my last gave out also said he didn't turn on DTM as it wasn't needed.

[Cortiz]

I have a Sony A9G paired with the UB9000. The A9G has undefeatable DTM. It works well enough so I keep the Panny optimiser off. What do you experts suggest?

[panasonicst60]

Originally Posted by tama

No, it was on a C9. These Panny players weren't out just yet when the B7 was released. Just also stating Vincent hasn't been a fan of DTM since then as it was the first OLED it was employed on.

I have on order a CX from VE also with a calibration ordered so hope to have it soon. But speaking with a local calibrator who advised me to move on to a new set after my last gave out also said he didn't turn on DTM as it wasn't needed.

Dtm sucked on the b7 and c8 and magically it's great on the cx, I doubt that. On my c8, what dtm does is that it raises every level of the eotf except for the lowest level. I'm not talking by a little bit, but by a lot. So everything looks brighter. To the untrained eye, he or she will probably go with a brighter image. Even a stock not calibrated c8 tracks the eotf very close.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Cortiz

I have a Sony A9G paired with the UB9000. The A9G has undefeatable DTM. It works well enough so I keep the Panny optimiser off. What do you experts suggest?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it

[panasonicst60]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGO3...ature=youtu.be

Here you go, on the CX. He stated that the dtm not only increases the high tones but also the mid tones. The optimizer in Panasonic ub only helps slightly with the last bit of the highest nits. Therefore your mids and most high tones are all messed up. The cx acts nearly identical to the c8 as I assumed. Both are trash if you are looking for an accurate picture. I don't have a problem with anyone liking dtm, but I have a problem with someone that says it's more accurate to the directors intent.

Fyi I did not watch the full video. I only watched a few minutes and it's all the info I need. Yes it for hlg but it will more than likely perform similarly with regular hdr10.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by Cortiz

I have a Sony A9G paired with the UB9000. The A9G has undefeatable DTM. It works well enough so I keep the Panny optimiser off. What do you experts suggest?

Same here. I can't help myself but toggle it still, haha.

The torture scenes, whether it's just highlights or more full screen, there's clear benefits in using Optimizer. It's choosing between white blob or nicely resolved detail and color restoration. However, I need to pause it to see it...and my gut tells me to let the TV do its thing by itself, but it's hard because I love the Optimizer when I see it (and it doesn't appear to alter anything below 1000 nits).

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by panasonicst60

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGO3...ature=youtu.be

Here you go, on the CX. He stated that the dtm not only increases the high tones but also the mid tones. The optimizer in Panasonic ub only helps slightly with the last bit of the highest nits. Therefore your mids and most high tones are all messed up. The cx acts nearly identical to the c8 as I assumed. Both are trash if you are looking for an accurate picture. I don't have a problem with anyone liking dtm, but I have a problem with someone that says it's more accurate to the directors intent.

Fyi I did not watch the full video. I only watched a few minutes and it's all the info I need. Yes it for hlg but it will more than likely perform similarly with regular hdr10.

That whole video is on video games, not movies. Video games have a totally different HDR experience than movies. If you watch the video, he says to use HGIG, which is the video game version for tone mapping. And that I do agree with him on it since HGIG was developed strictly for Video Games.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by panasonicst60

Dtm sucked on the b7 and c8 and magically it's great on the cx, I doubt that. On my c8, what dtm does is that it raises every level of the eotf except for the lowest level. I'm not talking by a little bit, but by a lot. So everything looks brighter. To the untrained eye, he or she will probably go with a brighter image. Even a stock not calibrated c8 tracks the eotf very close.

It’s called updating and advancing technology. Just because 1 thing didn’t work or was terrible 1 year doesn’t mean it will be terrible the next. Technology advances all the time. Again, I’m not saying DTM is perfect but I am saying it works to a certain degree.

[panasonicst60]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

That whole video is on video games, not movies. Video games have a totally different HDR experience than movies. If you watch the video, he says to use HGIG, which is the video game version for tone mapping. And that I do agree with him on it since HGIG was developed strictly for Video Games.

You sound like one of my friend I know. If you were close by I would take a few hours to stop by and show you the difference. After I leave your house you would thank me for enlightening you .