Replacing Long-Time Receiver - Thoughts Requested

[Alan Gordon]

I am in need of a new AVR, and I'm having difficulty figuring out what I should get. Any thoughts on the matter is appreciated.

To start off with, let me tell you a bit about my setup. It's pretty basic:

TCL 55S525 4K Roku TV
Samsung UBD-K8500
Apple TV 4K
Xbox One S
Pioneer 1019AH-K (2009)
Polk Audio CS20 Center Speaker
4 Polk Audio Monitor 60 Floorstanding Speakers
2 Pioneer Bookshelf Speakers
Polk Audio Powered Subwoofer

My Pioneer 1019AH-K has been great through the years, and I have no complaints about the sound. 5-6 years ago (maybe), one of the lights on the front of the unit started working only half the time, and a few years ago, one of the HDMI inputs stopped working. As the AVR does not accept 4K sources, it didn't matter as I have everything directly connected to my TV, other than HDMI going from the Samsung Blu-ray player's HDMI Audio Output to the AVR.

My Apple TV is plugged directly into my TCL 55S25 TV, and I have Optical going out of the TV into my Pioneer Receiver. When I first got the TV, I could play Dolby Digital Plus 7.1 surround sound from movies I own in iTunes. However, sometime later, my AVR stopped displaying Dolby Digital Plus, and only Dolby Digital 5.1. At the time, I assumed maybe a firmware update to the TV had broken that ability to output DD+, and was disappointed, but moved on, and hoped it would be fixed with another update.

Later last year, while watching a movie, I kept thinking to myself how disappointing a 4K Blu-ray movie's audio was. 2/3 into the movie, I realized that my receiver was applying ProLogic II processing to Dolby Stereo audio, when it should have been Dolby TrueHD. I was very confused by this. It was late at night, so I decided to investigate more that weekend.

Shortening my story somewhat, I discovered that the AVR would no longer play Dolby TrueHD or Dolby Digital Plus audio. Silence... nothing more. It would still play up to Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtracks, and even Dolby Digital EX from some old DVDs I had around. TrueHD and DD+ wouldn't work at all though. DTS-HD MA, DTS-HD HR, DTS, and DTS ES worked fine... for a while that is. Months later, all my HDMI Inputs went bad.

None of the HDMI inputs work now at all. Optical from the TV works with lossy Dolby and DTS audio for the most part. When I say "for the most part", well, some days are worse than others, but I'm having issues with lip-syncing pretty badly. Strangely, the Roku apps themselves do better than when I'm watching content via the Apple TV or lossy audio via the Blu-ray player outputted into the AVR via optical, but it CAN have issues as well. Depends on the day.

I'm looking at two different receivers:

Denon 960H ($699)
Yamaha V6A/TSR-700 ($599/$399)

I do not want to go any higher than $699 (TOPS). I'm already unhappy about potentially going THAT high.

Both receivers are 2020 models, and have pros and cons. Both suffer from the HDMI 2.1 issue, but I'm really not worried about that part, as my TV isn't HDMI 2.1, and spending this money on an AVR will delay any future TV purchase by quite a bit, and while I plan on getting a PS5 at some point, it's not affected by the HDMI 2.1 issue I've read.

The Yahama V6A looks cooler to me aesthetically versus Denon 960H, which looks similar to my Pioneer 1019AH-K, but I don't really care about that. The Yamaha V6A is a 7.2 receiver like the Denon, but unlike the Denon, it has speaker outputs for 9.2, which is cool should I ever choose to add additional "presence" speakers.

The Denon 960H has a better User Interface compared to the Yamaha, in my opinion. The Denon 960H also has DTS Virtual:X, which the Yamaha doesn't have.

Reading reviews of the Yamaha V6A on sites and AVSForum sees all kind of bugs with HDMI even after multiple updates. These issues SHOULD be fixable, but reading owner experiences are definitely disconcerting.

Reading reviews of the Denon 960H, you don't see as many issues as the Yamaha, but one MAJOR criticism I see a lot is that this receiver runs HOT! I don't keep my receiver in a cabinet, but I live in the South and I don't have the best ventilation and cooling, so my home gets HOT during the warmer months, which in the South, is most of the year. This concerns me. My Pioneer gets very hot too, and I've gotten 10 years without (for the most part) trouble. I have NO idea how hot these people's idea of hot is. Is it hotter than my Pioneer? I don't know. The Yamaha V6A looks to have a bigger body, and I haven't seen any complaints about it running hot (so far).


I don't really know which way I should go. I'd love to read any and all thoughts someone may have on what I've said.

[quickdraw]

Originally Posted by Alan Gordon

I'm looking at two different receivers:

Denon 960H ($699)
Yamaha V6A/TSR-700 ($599/$399)

I do not want to go any higher than $699 (TOPS). I'm already unhappy about potentially going THAT high.

Both receivers are 2020 models, and have pros and cons. Both suffer from the HDMI 2.1 issue, but I'm really not worried about that part, as my TV isn't HDMI 2.1, and spending this money on an AVR will delay any future TV purchase by quite a bit, and while I plan on getting a PS5 at some point, it's not affected by the HDMI 2.1 issue I've read.

The Yahama V6A looks cooler to me aesthetically versus Denon 960H, which looks similar to my Pioneer 1019AH-K, but I don't really care about that. The Yamaha V6A is a 7.2 receiver like the Denon, but unlike the Denon, it has speaker outputs for 9.2, which is cool should I ever choose to add additional "presence" speakers.

The Denon 960H has a better User Interface compared to the Yamaha, in my opinion. The Denon 960H also has DTS Virtual:X, which the Yamaha doesn't have.

Reading reviews of the Yamaha V6A on sites and AVSForum sees all kind of bugs with HDMI even after multiple updates. These issues SHOULD be fixable, but reading owner experiences are definitely disconcerting.

Reading reviews of the Denon 960H, you don't see as many issues as the Yamaha, but one MAJOR criticism I see a lot is that this receiver runs HOT! I don't keep my receiver in a cabinet, but I live in the South and I don't have the best ventilation and cooling, so my home gets HOT during the warmer months, which in the South, is most of the year. This concerns me. My Pioneer gets very hot too, and I've gotten 10 years without (for the most part) trouble. I have NO idea how hot these people's idea of hot is. Is it hotter than my Pioneer? I don't know. The Yamaha V6A looks to have a bigger body, and I haven't seen any complaints about it running hot (so far).


I don't really know which way I should go. I'd love to read any and all thoughts someone may have on what I've said.

AVRs are really about personal taste in sound IMO. The other factor is reliability. I recently bought an AVR and was agonizing which to buy. After researching, it came down to the Sony STR-DN1080 and the Yamaha RX-V6A. I was leaning towards the Sony, but then I saw this review by Andrew Robinson, an AVR / Hifi industry insider who has his own YouTube channel. Here's the review

link

.

Needless to say I reassessed my position and bought the Yamaha, although it was the TSR-700, which is actually a RX-V6A rebranded for Costco for $200 less. I haven't regretted that purchase. Plenty of power (there's also a YouTube video with an independant home entertainment company that did a decible/wattage test that said it was driving 140 rms watts per channel instead of the 100 watts that the company specs). It also has a cool app called MusiCast which allows you to control the major features of the AVR through your phone - very cool. I hardly use the included remote anymore. It is also highly customizable if you want to dig deep into the setup which I'm still exploring. Now for the elephant in the room: the complaints about it being buggy. Well, since purchasing, they've done a couple of updates already with the firmware which has fixed a lot of issues regarding switching between components (especially through MusiCast). As for the 8K capability and the upgraded HDMI, that has yet to be implemented, but AVR forums are saying that it will likely be updated to those capabilities by the end of summer. Yamaha did a real disservice by selling those features without a big disclaimer about when they would be enabled, however that being said, I'm not using those features yet, but may in the future, so hopefully those will be addressed and fixed in the near future. I'm thinking these (eventual) features will keep this receiver relevant for the next few years.

As for performance, I couldn't be happier. I not only use it for movies, but for music as well. This is where I think the Yamaha shines compared to a lot of other brands. Music comes through with a very natural sounding balance. I'm sure there's some coloration, but it isn't super obvious. It even has a phono line input, which is something lacking in many receivers these days. I've owned almost all the major brands at some point or another, but have always liked the sound of Yamahas as well as their reliability. Can't say the same for the other brands (including Denon, Onkyo and Harman Kardon). Do some research on the Yamaha on YouTube and I think overwhelmingly the consensus on this AVR is that it's a great value for the features. Hope this helps a little.

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by quickdraw

Hope this helps a little.

Thanks! After posting my thread, but prior to your response, I actually bought the TSR-700.

I joined Costco (no local one) and purchased it online. After a few days with it, it would randomly start buzzing and vibrating. I got a replacement and sent the old one back. So far, no buzzing and vibrating. I've been pleased with it overall.

[azmodeous]

I pretty much have my heart set on the TSR-700/V6A as well but Yamaha has had a time keeping these in stock the last few months. Hopefully in July, when it looks like I will have enough saved up, they'll become abundant.

[slimdude]

Originally Posted by Alan Gordon

I'm looking at two different receivers:

Denon 960H ($699)
Yamaha V6A/TSR-700 ($599/$399)

I do not want to go any higher than $699 (TOPS). I'm already unhappy about potentially going THAT high.

Since you're feeling uncomfortable paying $700.00 for the Denon (excluding tax) then go with the Yamaha.

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by azmodeous

I pretty much have my heart set on the TSR-700/V6A as well but Yamaha has had a time keeping these in stock the last few months. Hopefully in July, when it looks like I will have enough saved up, they'll become abundant.

I would stay away from Yamaha, YPAO sucks.

[quickdraw]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

I would stay away from Yamaha, YPAO sucks.

I think statements like these are pure hyperbole and really don't offer any real input to the conversation unless you just don't like Yamaha, in which case you're entitled to your opinion.

I've used both Audyssey and YPAO systems, and to be honest, they both tend to be inaccurate especially when determining speaker distances. I use them as a rough guide and adjust accordingly. Often, the microphone they use is the weak link, but it can also be attributed to where and how you place the microphone. If it will allow to do multiple position calibration, that's good, but even still I've noticed woofer distances to be out of whack.

I will also double check the readings using a sound pressure meter which you can purchase relatively cheaply or there's even a couple of smart phone apps which will do the job too. You can then tweak the auto settings using the manual adjustments on your AVR. The other choice is to not use the included AVR app and do the entire set-up in manual mode using a sound pressure meter. It's really not that hard, but a bit more time consuming.

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by quickdraw

I think statements like these are pure hyperbole and really don't offer any real input to the conversation unless you just don't like Yamaha, in which case you're entitled to your opinion.

I've used both Audyssey and YPAO systems, and to be honest, they both tend to be inaccurate especially when determining speaker distances. I use them as a rough guide and adjust accordingly. Often, the microphone they use is the weak link, but it can also be attributed to where and how you place the microphone. If it will allow to do multiple position calibration, that's good, but even still I've noticed woofer distances to be out of whack.

I will also double check the readings using a sound pressure meter which you can purchase relatively cheaply or there's even a couple of smart phone apps which will do the job too. You can then tweak the auto settings using the manual adjustments on your AVR. The other choice is to not use the included AVR app and do the entire set-up in manual mode using a sound pressure meter. It's really not that hard, but a bit more time consuming.

At least Audyssey comes with the editor app for greater fine tuning.

Stay away from Yamaha!