Disney+'s - Loki (Season 2)

[Joey9775]

Maybe a timeline can be created in someone's head and posted here nonstop so that person can continually say that it's canon.

[Guy87]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

Maybe now we'll see

[Show spoiler]Chris Evans as Johnny Storm meet up with Chris Evans as Capt America

Or Deadpool, Deadpool (origins) and Hannibal King

[Guy87]

Originally Posted by donutbat

And if He Who Remains likes to keep a tidy timeline, how the heck did he allow Cap to create a branch reality? Now I'm 90% sure Steve comes back for Quantumania to explain this.

This is the only part that doesn't quite match up.

Unless Steve's branch was trimmed after Peggy dies and he returns to the 'sacred' timeline.

OR

[Show spoiler]the version of Endgame we saw was the version that exists after Sylvie kills HWR, now that infinite branches open back up

[UniSol GR77]

Originally Posted by Guy87

He then creates the TVA and using time travel sets them the task of ensuring none of these infinite events that create these infinite branches ever occur. In essence he dictates which events are allowed to occur, thus creating a single prime (or 'sacred') timeline.

Wrong. That's not what they say, depict or imply on this show. The writing is a mess. The writing has no internal continuity. A FAILURE.

As simple as that, the premise WAS that time travel creates "time branches", like the ONES we see in ENDGAME: the New York 2012 Branch, the Thanos 2014 Branch and so on........ okay?

TVA agents are supposed to believe that there's just one timeline, the "sacred timeline", and that alternate universes don't exist anymore.
YET, they steal people from... alternate universes, not generated by CHOICE or TIME TRAVEL. They are alternate universes from the start.

Within Marvel Comics, most tales take place within the fictional Marvel Universe, which in turn is part of a larger multiverse. Starting with issues of Captain Britain, the main continuity in which most Marvel storylines take place was designated Earth-616, and the Multiverse was established as being protected by Merlyn. Each universe has a Captain Britain designated to protect its version of the British Isles. These protectors are collectively known as the Captain Britain Corps. This numerical notation was continued in the series Excalibur and other titles. Each universe of the Multiverse in Marvel also appears to be defended by a Sorcerer Supreme at nearly all times, appointed by the mystic trinity of Vishanti to defend the world against threats primarily magical in nature from within and beyond and bearing the Eye of Agamotto.

[UniSol GR77]

Originally Posted by Joey9775

Maybe a timeline can be created in someone's head and posted here nonstop so that person can continually say that it's canon.

The writers of LOKI LMAO.

[isolar801]

In DUNE, Paul Muad'Dib saw possible futures...all at once. It drove him mad.

But....and its a real big but...these futures didn't actually exist. If they did there would be more timelines than atoms in the universe....a ridiculous notion.

While the concept of parallel universes has been hypothesized for quite some time (as in...they might actually exist) the sister concept of parallel or branching timelines is just one big fantasy...if you accept 5 or 6 Loki's you might as well accept 189 quadrabazillionmegatrillion Loki's just as well.

[Guy87]

Originally Posted by UniSol GR77

Wrong. That's not what they say, depict or imply on this show. The writing is a mess. The writing has no internal continuity. A FAILURE.

As simple as that, the premise WAS that time travel creates "time branches", like the ONES we see in ENDGAME: the New York 2012 Branch, the Thanos 2014 Branch and so on........ okay?

TVA agents are supposed to believe that there's just one timeline, the "sacred timeline", and that alternate universes don't exist anymore.
YET, they steal people from... alternate universes, not generated by CHOICE or TIME TRAVEL. They are alternate universes from the start.

Time travel does create time time branches, but only because that's one of the infinite choices taking place.

So for example during the Battle of NY:
The Ancient One fights aliens = Sacred/Prime timeline
The Ancient One stops to tie her shoelace = branch variant universe
The Ancient One sneezes mid fight = branch variant universe
The Ancient One is interrupted mid-fight by a time-travelling Hulk asking for an Infinity Stone = branch variant universe

And I don't know why you're so stuck on the idea that TVA agents aren't aware that there's multiple timelines. Of course they're aware, their entire job is to prune them. They believe that there SHOULD only be one because they know variant timelines create a multiverse war and they want to stop that from happening. Miss Minutes explains all of this in episode 1, and the TVA agents constantly repeat it.

They know that they're killing off timelines to preserve a relatively peaceful sacred timeline.

[Guy87]

Originally Posted by isolar801

In DUNE, Paul Muad'Dib saw possible futures...all at once. It drove him mad.

But....and its a real big but...these futures didn't actually exist. If they did there would be more timelines than atoms in the universe....a ridiculous notion.

While the concept of parallel universes has been hypothesized for quite some time (as in...they might actually exist) the sister concept of parallel or branching timelines is just one big fantasy...if you accept 5 or 6 Loki's you might as well accept 189 quadrabazillionmegatrillion Loki's just as well.

Doctor Strange did that once in Infinity War. He handled it pretty well

But yes in theory you're right. That's the limit of fiction, at the minute we have to assume there's infinite timelines, but in shows like The Flash they limited it to 52, I think.

But yes, as it stands you can imagine there's infinite Loki's in infinite forms until the MCU tells us otherwise. Of course it's not practical because infinite of them would infinitely destroy all of the others, and all of the others would be infinitely invincible to being destroyed causing a major paradox and so on and so on.

But it's fiction, so just let the concept have it's fun.

[UniSol GR77]

Originally Posted by Guy87

And I don't know why you're so stuck on the idea that TVA agents aren't aware that there's multiple timelines. Of course they're aware, their entire job is to prune them. They believe that there SHOULD only be one because they know variant timelines create a multiverse war and they want to stop that from happening.

No, they believe that they must destroy "time branches". Caused by what? A timeline doesn't branch spontaneously, a timeline branches only with TIME TRAVEL (according to the rules established by ENDGAME).
If a timeline branches spontaneously, then one CHOICE would create dozens and dozens and dozens of timelines LMAO how would they destroy them?
MESSED UP WRITING.
Alligator Loki comes from an alternate universe, not a time branch.

The show is badly written.

[Guy87]

Originally Posted by UniSol GR77

No, they believe that they must destroy "time branches". Caused by what? A timeline doesn't branch spontaneously, a timeline branches only with TIME TRAVEL (according to the rules established by ENDGAME).
If a timeline branches spontaneously, then one CHOICE would create dozens and dozens and dozens of timelines LMAO how would they destroy them?
MESSED UP WRITING.
Alligator Loki comes from an alternate universe, not a time branch.

The show is badly written.

These are just weird limitations they you're putting onto the show yourself.

Yes in Endgame time travel creates a branch, but it is never stated that is the ONLY thing that creates a branch.

The Ancient One isn't telling Hulk about this new branch because she's worried about a branch generally, she's telling Hulk about the new branch because him taking the stone means she now lives in a universe without a time stone and that's a problem.

If you want proof that every new decision branches to a new universe then watch Doctor Strange sit and view "14,000,605" possible outcomes to the Thanos conflict. Each one of those outcomes is due to a different decision.

Alligator Loki exists because of a branch where lifeforms either evolved from reptiles instead of monkeys, or Dr Strange turned him into an alligator instead of making him fall in Ragnarok, or Thanos turned him into an alligator instead of killing him with the reality stone, or *lists infinite possible scenarios, all of which have happened in some branch universe somewhere*

[isolar801]

Originally Posted by Guy87

Doctor Strange did that once in Infinity War. He handled it pretty well

at the minute we have to assume there's infinite timelines

But it's fiction, so just let the concept have it's fun.

We really don't have to assume that...the Loki writers assumed that and they got the mess of a storyline they ended up with.
Why didn't they just do parallel universes like the CW? We heard they were going to..why bring time travel into it at all ? As much as I dislike this Multiverse crap, it could have at least been entertaining, like episode 5.

Oh...they wanted this Kang guy introduced and supposedly he's all about messing with time.
I'm all for concepts playing out, but when the concept has you going "Whaaat??' every 3 or so seconds its one that should have been discarded.

[UniSol GR77]

Originally Posted by Guy87

Alligator Loki exists because of a branch where lifeforms either evolved from reptiles instead of monkeys, or Dr Strange turned him into an alligator instead of making him fall in Ragnarok, or Thanos turned him into an alligator instead of killing him with the reality stone, or *lists infinite possible scenarios, all of which have happened in some branch universe somewhere*

So we're dealing with PARALLEL alternate universes.
Not "time branches".

If that's the PREMISE (and it's not), then you would need 45.000 TVA agencies which destroy MILLIONS of "alternate universes" (erroneously called "time branches") originated by FEW CHOICES one person does, and that would be 100% impossible.

Also, why would Alligator Loki be a menace for the sacred timeline, if he's inside a STANDALONE ALTERNATE UNIVERSE?

The writing is all over the place.

[Guy87]

Originally Posted by isolar801

We really don't have to assume that...the Loki writers assumed that and they got the mess of a storyline they ended up with.
Why didn't they just do parallel universes like the CW? We heard they were going to..why bring time travel into it at all ? As much as I dislike this Multiverse crap, it could have at least been entertaining, like episode 5.

Oh...they wanted this Kang guy introduced and supposedly he's all about messing with time.
I'm all for concepts playing out, but when the concept has you going "Whaaat??' every 3 or so seconds its one that should have been discarded.

I assume they've introduced the multiverse because it the easiest way to argue that the Netflix and Shield shows are still canon, but without having to use their plots when introducing Daredevil, Punisher, etc to the main MCU timeline.

You just say AoS is a variant universe where Coulson was resurrected, job done.

They can also now bank on the old Fox IPs they just acquired, as well as any past Marvel movies.

It's literally the easiest way to make nostalgia money and keep old franchises relevant.

You want Tobey Macguire back as Spidey AS WELL AS Tom Holland carrying on? Boom. Multiverse. Now you can make money off of two Spidey movies, cross them over AND ignore any crappy Venom movies and say they're in different universes.

[LeftHandedGuitarist]

Originally Posted by UniSol GR77

So we're dealing with PARALLEL alternate universes.
Not "time branches".

If that's the PREMISE (and it's not), then you would need 45.000 TVA agencies which destroy MILLIONS of "alternate universes" (erroneously called "time branches") originated by FEW CHOICES one person does, and that would be 100% impossible.

Also, why would Alligator Loki be a menace for the sacred timeline, if he's inside a STANDALONE ALTERNATE UNIVERSE?

The writing is all over the place.

No, you've got this all wrong. It's clearly stated that He Who Remains' system has eliminated free will. Everyone is following a set path. Deviations from it are few and far between and a big deal when they happen. hence the relatively small number of Hunters. Sylvie's entire mission was to put an end to this system.

Now that things have ended the way they have, the billions of infinite variations are going to happen and the TVA are overwhelmed.

But you're not listening to anything anyone says.

[Guy87]

Originally Posted by UniSol GR77

So we're dealing with PARALLEL alternate universes.
Not "time branches".

If that's the PREMISE (and it's not), then you would need 45.000 TVA agencies which destroy MILLIONS of "alternate universes" (erroneously called "time branches") originated by FEW CHOICES one person does, and that would be 100% impossible.

Also, why would Alligator Loki be a menace for the sacred timeline, if he's inside a STANDALONE ALTERNATE UNIVERSE?

The writing is all over the place.

We're dealing with alternate universes that spiral out of the main timeline that HWR created.

Yes, you would need infinite TVAs to cut those infinite branches, this show is arguing that they have spent eons doing that and finally whittled it down to one timeline with one TVA.

[Show spoiler]Until HWR dies, the timelines begin opening back up, and the 2012 variant Loki we've been following clearly lands in one of those variant TVAs at the end of the show being ran by Kang the Conquerer and his big statue

Alligator Loki is a threat because his universe simply existing means there's a splintered universe and the possibility of multiverse war. If you kill off EVERY branch, you can't have a multiversal war.

[isolar801]

Originally Posted by Guy87

I assume they've introduced the multiverse because it the easiest way to argue that the Netflix and Shield shows are still canon, but without having to use their plots when introducing Daredevil, Punisher, etc to the main MCU timeline.

You just say AoS is a variant universe where Coulson was resurrected, job done.

They can also now bank on the old Fox IPs they just acquired, as well as any past Marvel movies.

It's literally the easiest way to make nostalgia money and keep old franchises relevant.

You want Tobey Macguire back as Spidey AS WELL AS Tom Holland carrying on? Boom. Multiverse. Now you can make money off of two Spidey movies, cross them over AND ignore any crappy Venom movies and say they're in different universes.

Yeah....it's pretty apparent why a studio would turn to this Multiverse idea.

In the comics they did it to explain how Batman or whoever stays 42 forever.
On film it could explain why different actors play the same character.

Both of these uses of a Multiverse might work in a "comic book" world, but at the same time it takes storylines that are a bit silly to begin with (comic book movies in general) and makes them hyper silly.
When I first heard Marvel was going the Multiverse route, I was actually sad..it's going to render all they accomplished since 2008 null and void.

[Guy87]

Originally Posted by isolar801

Yeah....it's pretty apparent why a studio would turn to this Multiverse idea.

In the comics they did it to explain how Batman or whoever stays 42 forever.
On film it could explain why different actors play the same character.

Both of these uses of a Multiverse might work in a "comic book" world, but at the same time it takes storylines that are a bit silly to begin with (comic book movies in general) and makes them hyper silly.
When I first heard Marvel was going the Multiverse route, I was actually sad..it's going to render all they accomplished since 2008 null and void.

I get what you mean.

I'm in for the ride because cross-overs are fun, but ultimately multiverses mean things get mega complex, contradictory and non-sensical. They become impenetrable to follow for newcomers and nothing really matters when events can be constantly retconned. Also why would one variant character's fate be any more important than the infinite others?

These things are always fun to begin with but eventually end up with the creators pulling their favourite versions of everything back into a singular universe, which I'm sure will be the case here by Phase 8.

[UniSol GR77]

Originally Posted by LeftHandedGuitarist

No, you've got this all wrong. It's clearly stated that He Who Remains' system has eliminated free will.

That would invalidate all MCU movies, making them "shows" of a superior entity that pilot everyone's lives and actions. LOL.
That's not what he (the character) means, even.

THAT SAID, time branches and alternate universes are two different concepts, if you can't grasp that...

The writing is super-bad and all over the palce, but it was a fun show nonetheless!

[UniSol GR77]

Originally Posted by Guy87

Alligator Loki is a threat because his universe simply existing means there's a splintered universe and the possibility of multiverse war. If you kill off EVERY branch, you can't have a multiversal war.

There are TRILLIONS of alternate universes.
The TVA agency is formed by 200 or 300 people.
Impossible.

ALSO, the Back Guy (Kang) defends the "sacred timeline" and manages to make it "SECURED"/SEALED from any attempt to being visited by interdimensional counterparts.
So that means that Alligator Loki cannot jump into the MCU universe. Indeed... he was STOLEN LOL. Bad writing.

ALSO, that wasn't the original premise of the first episodes. As simple as that, this show has no internal continuity or logic, it contradicts itself and its rules.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Bolty

The episode was kind of short so I think they could have added a couple minutes where Doc Brown showed up with a chalkboard and kind of like explained it real quick.

They missed the opportunity to have another little animated segment.

I enjoyed Loki, I thought it was middling, they could have probably dropped the last episode and ended on the citadel discovery of the previous episode. Seeing the statue at the end reminded me of Mark Wahlberg discovering Ape Lincoln in Planet of the Apes, shame they didn't play that up more.