Blu-ray player prices better.........

[johnnyd1]

Originally Posted by Shadowself

If these statements are so true and price is everything then the population to which you refer will stick with $49 DVD players until either HD DVD or Blu-ray players get into that realm.

I don't agree. Price is not everything.

If you're willing to spend $1,000 plus on an HDTV a $100 dollar difference to get a recognizable vendor's player (over some vendor you've never heard of before) is not going to be an issue.



My observation with people I know or have met is that those who have the cheapest systems (sub $100 players, sub $500 TVs and no discrete audio system) simply rent. They buy extremely few disks and usually their entire library is less than a dozen DVDs. I don't expect that population to change their buying habits for either HD DVD or Blu-ray no matter how cheap players or the disks become.

How true !!

[ReduxInflux]

Originally Posted by Shadowself

If these statements are so true and price is everything then the population to which you refer will stick with $49 DVD players until either HD DVD or Blu-ray players get into that realm.

I don't agree. Price is not everything.

If you're willing to spend $1,000 plus on an HDTV a $100 dollar difference to get a recognizable vendor's player (over some vendor you've never heard of before) is not going to be an issue.



My observation with people I know or have met is that those who have the cheapest systems (sub $100 players, sub $500 TVs and no discrete audio system) simply rent. They buy extremely few disks and usually their entire library is less than a dozen DVDs. I don't expect that population to change their buying habits for either HD DVD or Blu-ray no matter how cheap players or the disks become.

i'm feeling you here. i totally get what you're saying...but don't you think that in order to compete, we need to offer a cheap player to counter their cheap player? cut em off and neutralize them at the point where they're strongest (price)? we at least need to give consumers a choice. hd dvd offers a 199 player? awesome. so do we. if we ignore hd dvd's cheap players, we're intentionally forfeiting territory to the enemy...especially in light of the holiday season. in my opinion, its just not wise to let this go unchallenged.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by Shadowself

My observation with people I know or have met is that those who have the cheapest systems (sub $100 players, sub $500 TVs and no discrete audio system) simply rent. They buy extremely few disks and usually their entire library is less than a dozen DVDs. I don't expect that population to change their buying habits for either HD DVD or Blu-ray no matter how cheap players or the disks become.

That's a good observation.

And where is rental going with Blu-ray?

The anecdotal evidence seems to already support that Blu-ray is far more reliable for renters.

Gary

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by time

You fail to understand that people that already have Blu-ray or Hd-DVD were not bothered by the high prices. The vast majority of the public say the 97% that don't have either the price is everything. If one format is 2 or 3 times more expensive the general public will go for the cheaper. That will led to the studios jumping ship from one to the other. If you do not think this is a possibility you are nuts. It's all about the price plain and simple.

The BD players have been 2-3x from the beginning, and it hasn't led to an overwhelming advantage in stand-alones so far. It's 55:45 in North America.

The disc prices are about the same (+ for combos and Fox).

The public isn't looking to buy something cheap for the sake of buying something cheap. They have to be interested too. And why would fighting a format war and paying $20-$30 for the priviledge interest all these people that only care about price?

Gary

[DrinkMore]

I must say, when I purchased my PS3 - it was not because it was the cheapest BD players (maybe just a little), it was more for the fact that it was the most robust player.

Lots of updates, sleek looks, no problems, most bang for the buck! It had everything I wanted and more. If I were to do it again, it would be the PS3 again. Why would I limit myself with a stand alone?


Here is how I look at it..

HD-DVD is for the crowd that wants to get into HD movies, but really don't want to spend a lot.

Blu-Ray is for the crowd that wants to get into HD movies, and only wants the best and is willing to pay for it.

That is just my opinion.

[dialog_gvf]

Here's my opinion why there SHOULD be a well priced entry level BD player:

Not because it needs to compete in the market against some HD DVD questionable quality unit. But, because of all these posts.

There are too many people taking the price Kool-aid, and obvious need to feel more comfortable about the ultimate success of Blu-ray. And that would be done by making something compete in the fictitious mass market.

The people buying into HDM have to be those that are willing to spend a hefty premium on the software. Accept the occassional glitch. Update their firmware. And not have access to all the titles.

Those people will pay $300-$400 and above (some WELL above) for a player, if they are confident in the ultimate survival of the format.

Gary

[BigB88]

I have two PS3's and am considering getting an additional one (the 80GB model), they are great devices, solid with top quality and they are fantastic blu ray players as well as a great gaming devices. This thing almost does everything, this is why they need to lower the price of this device to at least $429. If they do this and also lower their BluRay player prices to about the $300 level or a little below, this is all that should be asked of the BDA & Sony. At this price point, although still more expensive then HD-DVD, they should be able to keep up with the player competition. If they stay at the $400, $500, $600 levels respectively, HD-DVD will end up burying them. It's quite obvious BluRay can not match HD-DVD cheap player costs one to one, but they need to keep the costs reasonably close so consumers can say "Well this player is only $50 more and has additional capabilities worth that $50".

[jdsanko]

I agree. BD needs a cheap player to say "we have one". Cheap players will have not real impact unless software gets in the $10-$15 range. Folks who are willing to pay current software prices will pay several hundred dollars more for a player. The key to me, is the player needs to support all of the audio codecs, pass HD bitstreams via HDMI 1.3 and support all of the currently discussed bells and whistles. I believe this "complete" player if in the $400 to $500 range will really kick start stand alone BD player sales.

On comment on finished specs. HD-DVD continues to talk about finished specs. To me in the longer term this means a format not open to the latest technological inovations. Specifications need to be open to continually evolve taking advantage of the latest technology inovations.

[Mr.Neutral]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

That's a good observation.

And where is rental going with Blu-ray?

The anecdotal evidence seems to already support that Blu-ray is far more reliable for renters.

Gary

I've actually had the opposite experience with rentals. Granted it has been only 1 title to date, but between the HD DVD and Blu-ray rentals I've used (from Netflix), The Guardian is the only title that I've had issues with. Fortunately I was able to fast forward and get past where it had problems.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by jdsanko

On comment on finished specs. HD-DVD continues to talk about finished specs. To me in the longer term this means a format not open to the latest technological inovations. Specifications need to be open to continually evolve taking advantage of the latest technology inovations.

Yep, finished HD DVD specs. Like 24p (being added to the spec). Like HD DVD-RW (MIA). Like 45GB and 51GB TLs and higher bandwidth (under development).

Gary

[Luis_A51]

Originally Posted by Shadowself

If these statements are so true and price is everything then the population to which you refer will stick with $49 DVD players until either HD DVD or Blu-ray players get into that realm.

I don't agree. Price is not everything.

If you're willing to spend $1,000 plus on an HDTV a $100 dollar difference to get a recognizable vendor's player (over some vendor you've never heard of before) is not going to be an issue.



My observation with people I know or have met is that those who have the cheapest systems (sub $100 players, sub $500 TVs and no discrete audio system) simply rent. They buy extremely few disks and usually their entire library is less than a dozen DVDs. I don't expect that population to change their buying habits for either HD DVD or Blu-ray no matter how cheap players or the disks become.

I agree completely. People who keep saying "price is everything" and that "people will buy the cheapest walmart player, regardless of brand" fail to realise that anyone interested in HDM has likely already spent about 2k on a tv, and maybe also a sound system. they clearly have money to spend, and will likely invest their money in a quality brand, as upposed to some unknown brand that they will fear will break down.

Many people forget that HDM is currently, and will be for atleast a few more years, a very small market, for those who are interested more in quality than just price. If quality wasnt an issue, they wouldnt be buying HDM in the first place.

Granted cheaper players wouldnt hurt, and I strongly feel that the new players that have been announced should be $50-100 cheaper than the current models AND slash the price of the current models by $100-150 to make up for the fact that they have less features.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by johnnyd1

Why would you stop buying Blu Ray movies? You have the player, use and enjoy it. All will be fine in a few weeks !
Cheap players don't do anything for me ! I will pay more for a name brand and known reliability ! Which is why I don't buy anything Toshiba !

exactly...it's not like your movies won't work anymore if BD somehow lost...

MS is trying hard to make sure there is NO winner....

so BD has to step up and make an extra effort to seriously wipe them out..

[WickyWoo]

I really question how many movies someone getting in at the bottom level may actually buy anyway.

I believe the hypothesis goes "100 people who buy 3 discs each are better than 30 people who buy 10 each"

But the same kind of people who only buy 3 are probably families, who want Disney, who want Narnia, who want Pirates, who want Bond etc etc

There will be a cheap, cruddy BR player to compete with that venture thing, and I expect the existing decks, or their G3 replacements to be well down in the 300s. Don't forget that at $199, that thing is being built at a loss, there is simply no possible way the parts alone aren't running near that. And the deck they turn out will have a life of regular use of probably 18-24 months, TOPS.

I can't wait to see someoen take one apart

[Dadds]

One thing I always learned is you get what you pay for.

[richieb1971]

Your all wrong because you seem to have left out a significant format, which is DVD.

Forget HD-DVD vs Blu-ray for now. The only people buying it now are videophiles and the odd blu-ray disc which some PS3 owner bought.

If BR and HD-DVD don't come down to DVD prices in the next 12 months, then both formats are doomed to die. Its as simple as that. A new format like "downloadable DRM" movies will come out before then and offer to the masses the ability to watch HDM. Which afterall is what most people want. Not a shelf collection.

Its like I pointed out on another forum I visit, I would need £2000-$3000 to buy all the movies I want in the current line up of both formats. That is a big big deterrant. The general public shouldn't be gauged because the cheapest format charges $15-£20 a disc.

I'm not saying i'm 100% right, but all its going to take is a DRM downloadable service, simply because there is so much cost cutting involved. The days of optical media are now numbered imo.

[BStecke]

No matter how cheap HD DVD players get, the fact still remains that they have very few "must have" movies to watch on them. If an HD DVD player was 50 bucks, but all the movies you wanted to see were on Blu-ray, price no longer matters (although at this point, I might consider an HD DVD player for 50 bucks just for Batman Begins! But I'd buy it on ebay)

Kia makes cheap cars, but a lot of people demand features of a car that they're willing to pay for. Hence, Kia is not a top-selling car company. People won't just buy any old hunk of shit.

[tron3]

Originally Posted by Zaphod

No worries...cheap players will not decide the outcome.

At best HD-DVD MIGHT catch up with exisiting blu-ray sales. But they are still several laps behind. Smart consumers will still ask, "What does everyone have?" They will see the selection in the stores and from rental experience at their local Block Buster, will remember seeing only blu-ray.

With the current installed base of blu-ray growing every week, this will certainly be a blu-Christmas without HD to view.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Don't forget that at $199, that thing is being built at a loss, there is simply no possible way the parts alone aren't running near that.

Yes, I agree. I can't run the numbers and make a $199 SRP work, profitably.

But, possibilities are:

The Broadcom chip is being supplied for free
Microsoft is giving away the Windows CE and software
Toshiba is waiving their royalties for the first X units
TSST is supplying drives at cost

That might drop costs $75 a unit right there, and make $199 SRP feasible.

Anyone that wants to show I'm wrong, please feel free.

Gary

[k20king]

Originally Posted by septic death

drop in price to match HD DVD players or its game over by years end. I am getting worried about blu ray, my collection of BD movies is growing but may slow down or stop till one comes out on top.


Anyone else getting worried about the outcome of all this crap? I thought Blu Ray had it wrapped up until last week and now cheap HD DVD players are coming.

With Paramount going HD DUD Exclusive, and thus extending the format war. Thus greating more competitive pricing for the future.

Go Blu-ray!

[Blu-Ray Buckeye]

Originally Posted by time

No wonder the HD-DVD side makes fun of the blu-ray people, they make stupid comments like that.

Oh, so people on the HD-DVD side don't say stupid things? You're a jackass.