Ask questions to The Digital Bits team (Bill Hunt, Jeff Kleist et.al.)

[Bill Hunt]

Originally Posted by Xorp

I'd expect all Skynet releases to look the same. I was referring to the out of print Optimum release that looks identical to the Geneon: http://www.optimumreleasing.com/dvd.php?id=823

For the record, I believe all HD presentations have been sourced from the same digital transfer/master owned by StudioCanal. The differences people are seeing are related to whatever processing/encoding decisions are being made by the individual distributors.

[cembros]

hey jeff or bill any word on the american release of jamiroquai live at montreux on blu. I saw a breif mention that it would be realsed in july on music bites linked from your site, im really psyched for this release but cannot find any other info

[Xorp]

Originally Posted by Bill Hunt

I believe all HD presentations have been sourced from the same digital transfer/master owned by StudioCanal.

Definitely all from the same master. The Geneon and Optimum releases have the best encoding and least filtering of that master of all the releases IMHO.

[patrick99]

Originally Posted by Bill Hunt

I disagree that DNR on the Skynet must necessarily be the sole culprit, but it's clear that many enthusiasts simply will not be dissuaded. Lionsgate insiders tell me they requested no DNR. I have no reason to doubt this - online conspiracy theories aside - unless it was applied without their knowledge prior to compression, or it's happening as part of the encoding process. I'm told the softening is more pronounced as a result of bitrate reduction, which could explain it. On the other hand, we don't know what additional processing was done for the Euro HD-DVD release. Was sharpening done, were subtle contrast adjustments made? All of these things can have an impact. As I've been saying for days now on The Bits, these things are substantially more complicated than many enthusiasts seem willing to admit, and it's very easy to make incorrect snap judgements based on little information. In the effort to investigate this all more thoroughly, and to consult experienced mastering sources in the industry, I myself have come to appreciate how much more complicated these things are than I suspected previously.

I've just read your most recent comments on The Bits, Bill. Thanks very much for this very interesting and valuable information. It is enlightening to have it finally confirmed that, because of filtering in the codecs, lower bitrates do in fact directly result in softening, which some of us suspected long ago, only to be told by those who knew better that it was really DNR applied before the encoding in order to make it possible to use lower bitrates. I guess the truth is it's some of each.

[NutsAboutPS3]

I don't think it is possible to tell purely by looking at the end product exactly at what stage image detail has been lost in getting from the master to the final blu-ray disc. People who attribute any loss of image detail to "DNR" are not technically incorrect, in that even if the loss of detail has happened automatically during the encoding process, it is still a form of digital noise reduction.

Just to mention that another thing that will affect how the image is altered during the encoding process is the specific settings applied to the encoding software, i.e. you can have two encodes at the same average bitrate using the same codec, but if different settings are used, they will discard detail in different ways when starved of bitrate.

[HeavyHitter]

According to another forum, the bitrates for T2 on BD are as follows:

Geneon Japan "SE" Cut: 21.94Mbps AVC
Lionsgate USA Skynet "SE" Cut: 19.28Mbps VC-1
Lionsgate USA Original TC: 18.92Mbps MPEG-2
StudioCanal UK/FR/etc "SE" Cut: 18.90Mbps VC-1

It seems they are all extremely close. I still don't see how that accounts for the differences seen on the Skynet version.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

I don't know if Bill Hunt is around, but I enjoyed reading his editorials about grain reduction on Blu-ray over the past couple or so days at The Digital Bits' website.

One minor detail to point out regarding 300 (an example used in the editorial), that movie was actually shot on film in the Super 35 process. However, the backgrounds and the artificial grain were added digitally.

Compositing and keying is much more easily facilitated with a grain free image in the visual effects pipeline. Later, the composited effects had the grain added back in……..problem was that ultimately, the amount and consisitency of the grain was not intended so, Chris (the grain guru on the project) was never happy with the grain structure of the movie.

However, in general, audiences and critics loved the ‘artistic look’ contributed by the grain so everything worked out well in the end.

Go figure.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Bill Hunt

.....Was sharpening done, were subtle contrast adjustments made? All of these things can have an impact. As I've been saying for days now on The Bits, these things are substantially more complicated than many enthusiasts seem willing to admit, and it's very easy to make incorrect snap judgements based on little information. In the effort to investigate this all more thoroughly, and to consult experienced mastering sources in the industry, I myself have come to appreciate how much more complicated these things are than I suspected previously.

Seems to me, you’re peeling back the layers of the onion and now instead of talking to the marketing guys at the studios, you’re starting to communicate with the tech guys.

Perhaps I should call you more often.

[Jeff Kleist]

Seems to me, you’re peeling back the layers of the onion and now instead of talking to the marketing guys at the studios, you’re starting to communicate with the tech guys.

We talk to a LOT of tech people. Often times it's difficult to find out who the tech people were on a specific project, and so yes we talk to management first. In many cases we talk to tech people in confidence because they're not authorized to speak, and we have to make sure not to leave breadcrumbs that lead to them. In this case, it was signifigantly easier because we already had a close relationship with many of the parties involved.

You should call me more often too

[Penton-Man]

That reminds me, there is yet another ‘quirk’ that can be attributed to digital noise reduction when in fact that is not the case. It is well known amongst experienced cinematographers that some people just have very soft faces on-camera.

There is a dramatic television series that has a blonde with such features naturally (without digital manipulation) which is a perfect example of this.
Does anyone know which actress and what TV show I’m speaking about?

Risking the fear of Trekies going wild on this thread again , it’s a supernatural type drama that even has a recent connection to Star Trek if you speak ‘Vulcan’ or is it Vulcanese?

Gotta run.

[SquidPuppet]

Hi Jeff and Bill

Can either of you gentlemen shed ANY light whatsoever on the status of Metropolis? I am not impatient, just curious about the parties involved and their pacing. I read a while ago that some previously lost footage had been found. Can we expect this footage to be incorporated? Are there any leagal/rights issues that could slow things down?

Thank you

[Jeff Kleist]

Risking the fear of Trekies going wild on this thread again , it’s a supernatural type drama that even has a recent connection to Star Trek if you speak ‘Vulcan’ or is it Vulcanese?

Vulcan, like asian words is both singular and plural

Hayden Penittiere (sp?) is your girl

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Risking the fear of Trekies going wild on this thread again , it’s a supernatural type drama that even has a recent connection to Star Trek if you speak ‘Vulcan’ or is it Vulcanese?

Gotta run.

Could be Fringe. Supernatural drama, recently had Leonard Nemoy as a guest star. The actress in question would then be Anna Torv, playing the part of Agent Olivia Dunham. Love the show!

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Hayden Penittiere (sp?) is your girl

I met her last week.

"Is that DVNR you're wearing?", I asked.

She just shot me a vague, smeary glare.

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

Could be Fringe. Supernatural drama, recently had Leonard Nemoy as a guest star. The actress in question would then be Anna Torv, playing the part of Agent Olivia Dunham. Love the show!

That was gonna be my guess too!

[aygie]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

Could be Fringe. Supernatural drama, recently had Leonard Nemoy as a guest star. The actress in question would then be Anna Torv, playing the part of Agent Olivia Dunham. Love the show!

Another connection would be JJ Abrams...

[horseflesh]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

I met her last week.

"Is that DVNR you're wearing?", I asked.

She just shot me a vague, smeary glare.

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

That reminds me, there is yet another ‘quirk’ that can be attributed to digital noise reduction when in fact that is not the case. It is well known amongst experienced cinematographers that some people just have very soft faces on-camera.

There is a dramatic television series that has a blonde with such features naturally (without digital manipulation) which is a perfect example of this.
Does anyone know which actress and what TV show I’m speaking about?

Risking the fear of Trekies going wild on this thread again , it’s a supernatural type drama that even has a recent connection to Star Trek if you speak ‘Vulcan’ or is it Vulcanese?

Though I consider the hints to be more in line with Anna Torv (particularly due to the fact that she has two connections with ST due to Abrams and Nimoy, and the fact that I consider "Fringe" to be more supernatural than "Heroes"), I'm going to go with Hayden Panettiere due to her age, and the fact that I don't remember Torv's face looking soft.

Longer shots are: Kristen Bell (Heroes), Ali Larter (Heroes), and Ari Graynor (Fringe).

~Alan<~~~~~~~~~~Whose "Star Trek" collection came today...

[Doctorossi]

Bill and Jeff, do you know anything mentionable about A Fish Called Wanda? I waited years for a better release than the initial DVD offering and eventually gave up looking for it. I'd sure dig on a BD, though.

[xmas_nyc93]

Bill and Jeff, can we reasonably expect the teaser and theatrical trailers for Star Trek: Generations which were not included on the prior Special Collector's Edition DVD to surface on the forthcoming BD release for the TNG films?