"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

Papillon (1973). Cinedome, Orange Ca

Did you ever get up to the Lucerne Valley or race one of the dez events thereabouts in the Mojave?
The Africa scenes for Valkyrie were shot out there.

Just wondering, did everyone find the grain content in the Blu-ray edition of that movie ‘acceptable’ or do they feel they was robbed?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

pps. I admit it's weird that we're having this civil, informative discussion about this stuff without the direct particiaption of Penton, given that he doesn't want to spoil the vote.

Hey, it’s great for me, as this thread is essentially on auto-pilot and I can rest my finger bones for awhile, alleviating the need to do any typing.....as I need a little rest.

Carry on.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well that’s ^ a first, I’ve never seen that hyphenated before.
Is that a foreign thing or do we just travel in different circles?

Weird. Must be a different circles thing. I've seen it that way about a million times. The chief "foreign thing" I'm familiar with is "swinging arm" in the UK.

Anyway, as far as I know, most of my circles are pretty mainstream- RRW&MT, etc.

I did used to read a bunch of the British mags (Superbike, etc.) back in the day. Maybe that's where I got it. Could swear I always read it in Sport Rider and stuff, too, though.


What do you say? "Swingarm"? "Swing arm"? "Bouncy rear-wheel holdy-on bit"?

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Did you ever get up to the Lucerne Valley or race one of the dez events thereabouts in the Mojave?
The Africa scenes for Valkyrie were shot out there.

Just wondering, did everyone find the grain content in the Blu-ray edition of that movie ‘acceptable’ or do they feel they was robbed?

I have ridden in Lucerne area, Cherry Valley, El Mirage etc., but never raced a desert event. Desert races scare me. Fall down, get hurt, WAIT, WAIT more...you know. Plus, not being able to ride the "track" in advance, lends itself to many surpises along the way. I must suck at reading natural terrain, because evertime I rode in the desert I had a BIG off.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by Alan Gordon

Happy Feet: The HD DVD had Dolby TrueHD on a dual-layered disc (30GB). The Blu-ray had Dolby Digital on a single-layered disc (25GB), but less than 15GB is used.

Lady In The Water: The HD DVD had Dolby TrueHD on a dual-layered disc (30GB). The Blu-ray had Dolby Digital on a single-layered disc (25GB), but less than 15GB is used.

Superman Returns: The HD DVD had Dolby TrueHD on a dual-layered disc (30GB). The Blu-ray had Dolby Digital on a dual-layered disc (50GB), but less than 30GB is used.

Training Day: The HD DVD had Dolby TrueHD on a dual-layered disc (30GB). The Blu-ray had Dolby Digital on a single-layered disc (25GB), but less than 18GB is used.

"The Phantom Of The Opera" as mentioned above had Dolby TrueHD, but the BD25 does indeed appear to be maxed out, and I couldn't find specs on "The Wicker Man" which has TrueHD on the HD DVD, but not on the Blu-ray.

~Alan

Let's not forget that the group in control of WHV dept at the time these titles were created were heavily favoring WHV dropping Blu. Hence many high profile titles were released with lossy audio on BD while the HD DVD got lossless. ie. they were trying to stack the deck in HD DVD's favor

[sharkshark]

second time for that story in this thread, any proof? not saying it's false, of course, just curious of the source for this (sure -sounds- like forum gossip... )

[Tok]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

second time for that story in this thread, any proof? not saying it's false, of course, just curious of the source for this (sure -sounds- like forum gossip... )

I don't have concrete evidence, but again it is not much of secret that the primary forces at WHV prior to Nickerson being forced out had favored HD DVD since the beginning due to WHV holding some of the key format patents.

Nickerson tried to work an HD DVD exclusivity deal at the time of the Paramount deal, but the higher ups squashed it. Nickerson and company were forced out and then Blu only rumors started surfacing.

Next to Grafeo, Nickerson was one HD DVD's biggest cheerleaders, but due to Warner being dual at the time he could not be as vocal as his Universal counterpart. Nickerson had strong allegiances to previous Warner executives like DVD pioneer, Warren Lieberfarb. Lieberfarb was part of Toshiba's HD DVD PR group at the time that format was created.

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by CraigW

Let's not forget that the group in control of WHV dept at the time these titles were created were heavily favoring WHV dropping Blu. Hence many high profile titles were released with lossy audio on BD while the HD DVD got lossless. ie. they were trying to stack the deck in HD DVD's favor

That was the point of my post... to show that size didn't ALWAYS enter into the equation.

BTW, I left out "The Ant Bully", but I can't find stats on it, so it could go either way.

~Alan

[kefrank]

Originally Posted by Esox50

No, I get it Peter. You're missing the point. If there are few instances of being able to test the same material for us consumers, then we can only rely on what we have. But again, if it's "mix" related (or sound design related), then shouldn't we have a roughly 50/50 split between Dolby and DTS?

No, not necessarily. There are all kinds of factors that play into people deciding that DTS-HD MA is better for some reason, not the least of which is psychoacoustics. Someone can read on a forum that DTS-HD MA is better and then do their own "comparison" at home and decide the same thing, only because the notion was put in their head. I think it's as much about people's perception from the DVD days that Dolby is run-of-the-mill and DTS is special and awesome (and in fact, often did have better quality). This and many other factors can easily skew the popular opinion and the make people think they're hearing something that isn't really there.

[bbeck]

Originally Posted by Brain Sturgeon

Any other material out there that could be used for codec comparison?

You guys should check out the Divertimenti disc. Specs are here, along with a high recommendation from the aforementioned FilmMixer (a bonafide "insider" on that forum, and a classy guy to boot). The $41 price is the only thing holding me back, but I'm drooling over those specs.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Weird. Must be a different circles thing. I've seen it that way about a million times. The chief "foreign thing" I'm familiar with is "swinging arm" in the UK.

What do you say? "Swingarm"? "Swing arm"? "Bouncy rear-wheel holdy-on bit"?

Just never seen the hyphen used, i.e. Swing-arm.
I have always only read either swingarm or swing arm.

Funny thing is (in regards to this conversation) that my first major project in motorcycle modification as a teen was adding (welding) swingarm extentions to a Yamaha DT-1's stock swingarm to give it more stability at high speeds.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

I have ridden in Lucerne area, Cherry Valley, El Mirage etc., but never raced a desert event. Desert races scare me. Fall down, get hurt, WAIT, WAIT more...you know. Plus, not being able to ride the "track" in advance, lends itself to many surpises along the way. I must suck at reading natural terrain, because evertime I rode in the desert I had a BIG off.

There is (or at least was) a cool ‘atmospheric’ roadside desert bar just down aways from the main riding in El Mirage which many times reminded me of this place………..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjjAs...eature=related

Instead of being frequented by experienced fighter pilots, most everyone in there often times were crusty desert racers and they even had a ‘character’ like the guy in the YouTube clip asking…..”Hey, y’all wanna drink wiskey?”.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by bbeck

You guys should check out the Divertimenti disc. Specs are here, along with a high recommendation from the aforementioned FilmMixer (a bonafide "insider" on that forum, and a classy guy to boot)......

Yes, long-term members here are familiar with “FilmMixer”, as am I , even before the format war.
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...xer#post903988

As a sidebar, the link provided in that listed link ^ above takes you to a thread originated almost a year ago on this forum having the title…..”Universal to make DTS-HD MA the standard for Blu-ray”.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Did you ever get up to the Lucerne Valley or race one of the dez events thereabouts in the Mojave?
The Africa scenes for Valkyrie were shot out there.

Just wondering, did everyone find the grain content in the Blu-ray edition of that movie ‘acceptable’ or do they feel they was robbed?

^
No one had the opportunity to view Valkyrie yet?
Well, the final editing was done on the Sony lot and afterwards it was sent over to Company 3 where a fine colorist did the work (formerly of Technique….Seabiscuit and Kill Bill fame) who worked closely and directly with the D.P. on the project, as he always has.

Anyway, for those fans of grain out there, despite the inaccuracy, or at least, marked incompleteness of the Tech specs for this film as listed on imdb…….
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0985699/technical, the source of this motion picture is a blend of grain of from different stocks as well as nationalities.

Only the interiors were shot on Fuji 400.
The reshoots were all done with Kodak 5219, the day exteriors in Germany on Kodak 5205 and the Africa scenes on Kodak 5201.

[aramis109]

I've only watched the first 20 minutes (got interrrupted) but I thought Valkyrie looked amazing. I appreciated the depth and feel of the image. I'm eager to watch the rest this weekend.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Funny thing is (in regards to this conversation) that my first major project in motorcycle modification as a teen was adding (welding) swingarm extentions to a Yamaha DT-1's stock swingarm to give it more stability at high speeds.

That's a bit of a deep-end introduction! So, were those 4cm road-course extensions or 40cm straight-line extensions?

[Torsten Kaiser TLE]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

Michel is far too bright an individual to be paying extended penance on "exile island," and possesses far too much information that can be helpful here. It may be time for an olive branch. Opinionated? Absolutely. Possibly in occasional need of self-editing? Likewise. But that's part of being extremely passionate about the cause. Usually correct in findings? Yes. I'd suggest a dove heading toward Europe ASAP.

RAH

As they say over at FUTURAMA: "I second that (e)motion". It would have to be some dove though, since the distance to the Swiss Alps is, well....
As Robert correctly summed it up, Michel's opinions can be sharp and unrefined at times and thus, are just as likely to cause wounds. But, putting him in a box for his comments and having only praise for reviewers in general on the other hand are two extremes. The (common) middle ground is sometimes missing, and both sides of the devide need to reach it.


The issue is simple, yet various aspects can make it very complicated. It is not just about screenshots, what their actual value is, how correct these captures have been made or what they can or cannot tell the layman. The issue also is about judgment and knowledge. Reviewers here and at most places elsewhere are doing, I am sure, the best they can. However, none of the writers on review websites are professionals from the mastering or even the restoration fields. Noone should judge reviewers/writers too harshly for not knowing everything and those who acknowledge mistakes and correct them have all (and not only my) respect. After all, they are not professionals.

Their job along with getting it right to judge the picture and sound quality is made the harder as they have to explain the insights of the remastering and even restoration processes so that even the very layman will understand. Since they are not professionals and have to catch up on their own with this very complex and often also complicated environment this is a very difficult task to master (pun intended). It is understandable that factual errors occur. I do, however, understand Michel's point of view when considering that in many reviews these errors are not being corrected, or - as is the case with one writer at another site - analysis from people in the field is not only questioned, but rejected, although the writer has never worked in the field at all. The last thing we should do is call EVERYTHING that is being written in those reviews beyond reproach. We learn. All of us.

[mpsan]

Hello Penton:

Have you seen 24 Season 7 on BR yet? I bet it is great and can't wait for it from Netflix! Will still be watching it on the Q.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Torsten Kaiser TLE

[FONT="Tahoma"]As they say over at FUTURAMA: "I second that (e)motion". It would have to be some dove though, since the distance to the Swiss Alps is, well....

Well, there’s a little more to it than that Torsten and I’ll bet I’ve known michel much longer than either RAH or yourself.
Michel is one of the few people who do not work in the business that post online that I have a true admiration for in terms of their technical expertise ; however ,

1. He is not always right.
and, more importantly,

2. He has a dogmatic, inflexible, almost religious contempt for any sort of digital processing that alters the raw capture of the acquisition device (be it either film or digital camera) in regards to sharpness or random grain/noise, even if it is specifically approved, supervised and directed in person by the filmmaker for either aesthetic or practical considerations which demonstrates his naivety in regards to filmmaking and getting something actually exhibited as a “feature” film.

There are many examples on internet forums throughout the years (Seabiscuit on the telecine operators’ forum, Casino Royale on AVS, LOTR on this forum, etc.) in which he clearly expresses this fringe position. Given that baseline hard-line belief, it inherently biases his thoughts whenever this sort of topic comes up…..which leads to contentious interactions with others, online futile crusades, etc.

So, as I said before, if he is willing to accept some pre-conditions as I outlined in a previous post, he would most likely be welcomed back in short order.

Regardless, not to worry though, as he’ll be back eventually one day, one way or another, and any campaigning by advocates or detractors will not expedite or impede that process.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mpsan

Hello Penton:

Have you seen 24 Season 7 on BR yet? I bet it is great and can't wait for it from Netflix! Will still be watching it on the Q.

Hi mpsan!
Long time no hear from!

How's divedude doing?
I would go over to there to say "Hi" to you guys but, I just can't endorse (with my presence) your "landlord"........meaning the adminstrators of that forum.