Star Trek The Motion Picture Director's Edition 4K UHD/DLX (1979)

[trevanian]

Originally Posted by WorkShed

The goal of the Director's Edition, as it was back on DVD, was to do high quality scans of the original models and replicate shots from storyboards and concept art to enhance the previously existing optical shots. This isn't like TOS-R where everything is tossed and replaced or like the Star Wars SE where it's the only version that exists. It's different.

There are a lot of storyboards for TMP, and your statement only really addresses things through a narrow focus. Conceptual art and completed but not used shots for San Francisco reflect a totally different concept and execution from what is seen in the director's version, which looks more like a CDROM Trek game in scope and style.

I don't recall seeing fireballs in any concept art for the wormhole, but that was another embellishment with this 'director's' version. In both theatrical and director's versions, a choice was made to not use Apogee's asteroid explosion, part of which can be seen in the extended promotional short made about the film, and which looks tons better than anything in either version.

Also, considering how pleased Wise seemed to be with the efforts of the sound personnel on the film at the time of release, it seems strange that such a drastic remix of sound was done for this 2001 version, one that actually takes the fairly exciting wormhole sequence and makes it seem almost boring.

[starmike]

Originally Posted by trevanian

There are a lot of storyboards for TMP, and your statement only really addresses things through a narrow focus. Conceptual art and completed but not used shots for San Francisco reflect a totally different concept and execution from what is seen in the director's version, which looks more like a CDROM Trek game in scope and style.

I don't recall seeing fireballs in any concept art for the wormhole, but that was another embellishment with this 'director's' version.

No, it was not. It was dead-on accurate.

Originally Posted by trevanian

In both theatrical and director's versions, a choice was made to not use Apogee's asteroid explosion, part of which can be seen in the extended promotional short made about the film, and which looks tons better than anything in either version.

This is what's called an opinion...

Originally Posted by trevanian

Also, considering how pleased Wise seemed to be with the efforts of the sound personnel on the film at the time of release, it seems strange that such a drastic remix of sound was done for this 2001 version, one that actually takes the fairly exciting wormhole sequence and makes it seem almost boring.

Did you just crap on MM?

[trevanian]

Originally Posted by starmike

No, it was not. It was dead-on accurate.





This is what's called an opinion...



Did you just crap on MM?

That's not a fireball, not anymore than the big blasts (that looks scientifically more credible) in SILENT RUNNING. And the board is a lot more engaging than the de shot.

[starmike]

Originally Posted by trevanian

That's not a fireball, not anymore than the big blasts (that looks scientifically more credible) in SILENT RUNNING. And the board is a lot more engaging than the de shot.

So you're splitting hairs here just to cover your incorrect statement? The facts is that the explosion on the storyboard matches what was seen in the DC, and you said that the DC "was another embellishment with this 'director's' version."

Besides, YOU said "fireball", the storyboard says that the asteroid explodes, which matches what was on-screen in the DC.

Anyway, my point is that you tried to besmirch the hard work of some very talented people who actually MATCHED the storyboards as you wanted, but in not doing your homework, you made yourself look like a fool.

You were wrong. Move on.

[MattmanAlpha]

Originally Posted by AdmiralNoodles

This Special Longer Version was released in its entirety in Pan & Scan on Laserdisc in 1983, and in Widescreen on VHS in 1991.
Bring on the updated 4K UHD release!

The '91 VHS of the Special Longer Version was also Pan & Scan. The letterbox VHS released at the same time in similar packaging was of the Theatrical Cut.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki..._Picture_(VHS)

Sadly, there is no official widescreen release of the Special Longer Version. I remember this well because I had to replace my original VHS in the mid-90s and opted for the Pan & Scan to keep the longer cut.

[anephric]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yeah...except there's also quite a bit of then-new CG for this and that and it never quite gels with the original stuff IMO. It looks like it was rendered on a toaster, though I admit that's not the same thing as it not gelling artistically with the OG footage. In that respect it'll be interesting to see how the new 4K updates to the VFX mesh with the existing stuff.

If it had been done a few years earlier and considering who did the work (Foundation Imaging) there's a strong chance it would've been rendered on a toaster.

A Video Toaster: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Toaster

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by anephric

If it had been done a few years earlier and considering who did the work (Foundation Imaging) there's a strong chance it would've been rendered on a toaster.

A Video Toaster: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Toaster

My comment was not unintentional

[anephric]

Well double damn shut my mouth.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by anephric

Well double damn shut my mouth.

I still recall my school mates going on about how Bablyon 5's CG was rendered on an Amiga. Yes, I am a nerd, the whole nerd and nothing but a nerd, so help me god

[trevanian]

Originally Posted by starmike

So you're splitting hairs here just to cover your incorrect statement? The facts is that the explosion on the storyboard matches what was seen in the DC, and you said that the DC "was another embellishment with this 'director's' version."

Besides, YOU said "fireball", the storyboard says that the asteroid explodes, which matches what was on-screen in the DC.

Anyway, my point is that you tried to besmirch the hard work of some very talented people who actually MATCHED the storyboards as you wanted, but in not doing your homework, you made yourself look like a fool.

You were wrong. Move on.

Move ON? Have you even seen this DC shot? It's a fireball, flaming pyro, something probably lifted from a cd-rom like the ones that Pete Kuran used to sell. The storyboard correctly describes an explosion, not a STAR WARS looking fireball.

I don't know what your stake is in this; mine is pretty straightforward. As a film journalist, I've never been interested in printing or retelling legends. I can't begin to tell you how many times I've run into folks saying the klingon blood color in TREK 6 was to keep it from getting an R rating, even though it was always a matter of it being a plot point (rating being more related to volume of blood, and the VFX super was very specific in saying they were never going for Peckinpah levels, so it was never a consideration or impacted the work.) But Rick Berman coughed that ratings thing up in an interview in the early 90s and folks have parroted it ever since. Meyer even misremembered it in his memoir.

Now, back over to this TMP thing, hopefully for the last time, with you anyway. GR carried over his tech consultant from the planned series for the film, and the guy gave a lot of input on the film -- from some circles, too much. But he was totally backed by Roddenberry when it came to stuff like explosions in space, and that it wasn't going to look like Star Wars. So when this director's thing comes along, we now get a stereotypical star wars fireball in place of that awful 16mm Abel test (or so it is claimed, and I tend to think it was.) [I]If the intent was to deliver this cut as the film was originally intended, then you wouldn't be STAR WARSzing it up, you'd be delivering something appropriate to the movie and the story you're telling.

Incidentally, the followup to the torp hitting the rock as scripted and boarded was supposed to have bits of rock hit the deflector shields and vanish, something the DVD does not even attempt. That was the part of the Apogee shot that didn't work for anybody, where the roto was unconvicing, according to Dykstra in CINEFEX #2. Why they didn't just use the first half and then cut away, I don't know, and nobody I've ever talked to about the film seems to know either (have not ever talked to the editor, who is probably responsible in large part for how it was assembled in the theatrical.)

You're pretty free with accusations, given it sounds like you just picked a side without doing the necessary research, or the proper research, since the very board you cite is evidence that you're not paying attention. So you might consider reigning in your claims about how foolish I am when you're the one whose ass is hanging out in the wind getting chapped, if not pelted by asteroid debris.

[trevanian]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I still recall my school mates going on about how Bablyon 5's CG was rendered on an Amiga. Yes, I am a nerd, the whole nerd and nothing but a nerd, so help me god

They were still using LightWave when they were doing DS9 and TMP, and as I remember, LightWave was a product originally used just on Amigas, or created for Amiga, so it was the same toolset, even if they were using a different render farm years later.

Now you've got me thinking I need to look up the big CFQ issues on B5 to re-study back up on this stuff. And that will lead to me rewatching the series yet again. No, must be strong, must realize I need to watch BOSTON LEGAL and THE WIRE and CARNIVALE all the way through again before falling into another B5 trench run. (maybe I'll compromise and just watch the Miichael O'Hare episodes. Or the Walter Koenig ones.)

Y'wanna meganerd this up a notch? Wasn't Wil Wheaton the spokesperson for Amiga early on?

[starmike]

Originally Posted by trevanian

You're pretty free with accusations, given it sounds like you just picked a side without doing the necessary research, or the proper research, since the very board you cite is evidence that you're not paying attention. So you might consider reigning in your claims about how foolish I am when you're the one whose ass is hanging out in the wind getting chapped, if not pelted by asteroid debris.

No, I'm cool. Storyboard shows a large explosion. DC shows large explosion. You say "I don't recall seeing fireballs in any concept art for the wormhole, but that was another embellishment with this 'director's' version." The only person calling it a fireball is you. Storyboard matches DC. End of discussion. It wasn't an "embellishment", it was an accurate representation of a storyboard. As a so-called "journalist" I'd think that you'd know that.

Another issue is the lack of respect for the DC team. Accusing them of an "embellishment" while working with Robert Wise himself, and when the storyboard is *right there* is just laughable.

[trevanian]

I'm not a so-called journalist. And if you can't see that silly fireball is a fireball -- flame in the vacuum of space -- then we have to jump to Cameronville where you have to look at things with better eyes.

As for the DC team, I thought and still think they should have turned down the project originally because there wasn't enough money to do it right. That's entirely a subjective opinion, granted. But the differences/discrepancies between Wise's intent for the film in 80 and what we got two decades later certainly suggest the possibility that the changes aren't all straight from the director's conception. Can't imagine him wanting the hex bridges animated on twos anymore than doing a WEST SIDE STORY number with claymation figures.

You're underinformed and tiresome. That's a troll-level combination.

[DVD Josh]

Anyway, enough of this stupid keyboard warrior nonsense.

Just watched TMP tonight and it looked fantastic. It's never looked better. I never used to like this movie but the more times I've seen it and read about what Paramount had tried to do with Phase II the more I appreciate it. Can't wait to see Khan.

[DMRI2006]

Originally Posted by WorkShed

It's well, well, well documented that Robert Wise had the film taken from him and released before it was done.

"Taken from him" is over the top. "Released before it was done" is accurate, but what else were they supposed to do. It was a hugely expensive movie that needed to come out before Christmas. They were rushing to meet the deadline, the film was due out in theaters and had to go out without it being cut and fine-tuned as much as they wanted. It was being worked on and tweaked until literally days (hours) before it premiered.

As far as this new release goes, I didn't care for much of the new VFX work that was produced for the DVD. Especially the terrible exterior shot of the Enterprise right before they met V'Ger, looked like some bad CGI from the late '90s. And not at all like anything Wise or Richard H. Kline or the original FX artists would've come up with.

Some shots like that were actually inferior to what was in the film originally, others were improvements, but I could've lived without any of them. I agree with Trevanian, they are almost certainly reflective of the team that was producing the disc more than Wise's aesthetic judgments. The added "TV version" scenes are of much more value, but instead of adding to what was there as that cut did, they fiddled around and also excised asides here and there that may not have been necessary but...I kind of miss them (the second or third "viewer off!").

The right balance for me would be to take the TV version additions and put them back into the theatrical version -- basically make a 4K cut of the TV version, minus all these new CGI'd special effects -- but it looks like we'll have to wait for the inevitable fan edits for that to happen.

[WorkShed]

Originally Posted by DMRI2006

"Taken from him" is over the top. "Released before it was done" is accurate, but what else were they supposed to do. It was a hugely expensive movie that needed to come out before Christmas. They were rushing to meet the deadline, the film was due out in theaters and had to go out without it being cut and fine-tuned as much as they wanted. It was being worked on and tweaked until literally days (hours) before it premiered.

That's fair enough. I concede my rhetoric. The Director's Edition is my personal favorite version of the film AND I'm glad that this mostly-theatrical version is still available in a 4K release.

Originally Posted by DMRI2006

As far as this new release goes, I didn't care for much of the new VFX work that was produced for the DVD. Especially the terrible exterior shot of the Enterprise right before they met V'Ger, looked like some bad CGI from the late '90s.

This is another reason why I'm glad that The Director's Edition was only produced in SD and is starting from scratch in 2021, so that modern technology can bridge this gap in a much better way than the additions to the original Star Wars trilogy and how much those stick out like a sore thumb all these years later.

[doubleofive]

So one of these is a "fireball" and the other is not. Got it.

[AdmiralNoodles]

Originally Posted by doubleofive

So one of these is a "fireball" and the other is not. Got it.

Neither of these are Fireball.

[Show spoiler]

ANYWAY.
Movie-Censorship.com comparison of Theatrical Cut versus The Director's Edition. The DE DVD is still readily available to order from Decluttr.com if one is so inclined. AND I'm still going to keep the DE DVD since I doubt this upcoming 4K UHD disc release will include the text commentary and the original cinematic audio track. Even though it's DVD source and would be 2.0/5.1 anyway, barring the eventual 7.1 track.
Not a double dip either since it's a completely different cut of the film.

[doubleofive]

Originally Posted by AdmiralNoodles

AND I'm still going to keep the DE DVD since I doubt this upcoming 4K UHD disc release will include the text commentary and the original cinematic audio track. Even though it's DVD source and would be 2.0/5.1 anyway, barring the eventual 7.1 track.
Not a double dip either since it's a completely different cut of the film.

My hope is for it to be a Blade Runner type release of all of the publicly released cuts of the film (theatrical done right, Special Longer Version, Sit Long and Prosper) and the 4K Director's Edition, with an empty space to keep your 2001 DVD in. ;-)

BTW, I need to finish my Visual Comparison for The Director's Edition before the new one comes out and outdates my work!

[Jeyl]

EDIT: Sorry! Posted this in the wrong thread. Here is a link where that post should be.

But since I'm here, DE all the way baby! And what's wrong with fireballs in space?!