Official Terminator Thread

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by TheZoof

Did anyone think it was sort of cool how the MACHINES are making the same mistake as human's did? They are relying on a HUMAN(Marcus) to do what they want and forgot that with a mind of it's own the human could turn on them?

I was thinking about that. I think I have to see this movie again. The more I think about it the more I enjoy it.

Yes, but Marcus didn't DO anything!

It was totally random how he came into contact with these people. The more I think about the movie (the story), the more silly it becomes.

[groove93]

You want to kill John, build a Cyborg that actually "Ages". Build up a friendship with John as a child to teen, and so on, while at the same time gathering intelligence on Human Anatomy and technology. Allow this information to be passed long secretly so that Skynet instantaneously improves its chances of killing John. When the time becomes appropriate, yack the poor lad and the machines win. This should've happened in T2 IMO, but then again, Liquid Metal was the killer app of the time for Cameron.

[TheZoof]

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

Yes, but Marcus didn't DO anything!

It was totally random how he came into contact with these people. The more I think about the movie (the story), the more silly it becomes.

Well... the thing to realize is that the Machines have patience. They knew that eventually Marcus would find all this out. I realize it is a cop out but the fact he went one direction could have been because the machines "hinted" him to go that direction.

I personally didn't like the whole Marcus plot at all and would have preferred a pure out war movie against the machines... BUT... it is what it is.

[Dirk504]

Originally Posted by DetroitSportsFan

Best part of the movie for me.

I almost jumped out of my seat in excitement when I saw Arnold.

Overall, Terminator was an excellent movie. I thought it was a good idea to have the infiltrator Terminator/Human. That guy really stole the show.... IMO.

[obiwopkenobi62]

The wife and I saw it yesterday and loved it. for all those complaining about continuity I have this to say.
When you are doing movies that deal with time travel you can pretty much do anything you want and get away with it because it's all theoretical.
Seriously, think about Star Trek shows and movies, Back to the Future etc. You can explain away anything when dealing with time travel.
Just sit back and enjoy the ride. No movie is perfect but IMO this movie delivered, plain and simple. Can't wait for the Bluray.

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by TheZoof

Well... the thing to realize is that the Machines have patience. They knew that eventually Marcus would find all this out. I realize it is a cop out but the fact he went one direction could have been because the machines "hinted" him to go that direction.

I personally didn't like the whole Marcus plot at all and would have preferred a pure out war movie against the machines... BUT... it is what it is.

I had thought of that too - that Marcus went that way because Reese was there - but if Skynet knew where Reese was - why not just go get him? Or, simply kill him when they did finally catch him? The machines had their #1 target and did nothing?! Why wait for John Conner to show up? Kill Reese and Conner doesn't matter anymore.

Like I said, the more I think about all the dominoes that had to fall in exactly the right place for Marcus to complete his mission, the more I find it all a bit ludicrous.

I'll still go see any sequel to see where they are heading with this story, but for me, the first movie really missed the mark as far as the characters are concerned.

Also, Skynet was simply not menacing to me.

[MCT]

I would also like to add that this movie was LOUD. L.O.U.D. Some of the best (and loudest) sound effects I've heard in some time.

the BD is predestined to be reference quality audio.

[VinnAY]

OK question if it didn't get asked and answered in 922 posts...sue me.

OK, Why was JC ascting surprised at Marcus being a prototype T800? I mean, JC KNOWS that T's are going to be this way...he seemed to play the scene like he had no idea that SkyNet was working on this.
The only thing I could think of was that folks in his "present" weren't supposed to know that he head T's coming back in time to kill him.

I was just a little miffed and scratching my head when he seemed completely oblivious to a T800 cyborg.

[cj-kent]

All of the weaknesses of the story that have been mentioned are valid and are certainly worth noting. However, the biggest thing that bugged me about this film was the inconsistency with which they treat the timeline.

THE TIME-TRAVEL CONUNDRUM

If you think about it the original Terminator movie exists in the vacuum of a fixed timeline. Skynet thought they could send a machine back in time to change the future and eliminate John Connor. However, what they discover, or at least WE discover, is that everything Skynet and the resistance did actually caused things to turn exactly as they would. In other words, the future that Skynet and the resistance live in could not exist without the events of Terminator taking place as they did. This is fatalism at it's best. In this reality there is only one timeline and everything can only happen one way. Time travel, if it's possible, would only exist for a predetermined purpose. You wouldn't be able to travel back in time to change an event of the future because once that event was changed your reason for traveling back would be eliminated and so you would not have done it in the first place.

Flash forward to 1991. T2 comes out with the slogan "No fate, but what we make". It immediately sets up the idea that the timeline is not set. This is in direct conflict with the reality that has already been established. In this movie Sarah and company ARE able to change the future. They are able to make sure that Skynet never happens. In this movie the reasons for Skynet's existence still depend on the previous time-traveling jaunt from Arnold in 1984. The future technology that allows Skynet to become self-aware is built off the remaining arm and chip found from the T-101 or T-800 or whatever Arnold's I.D. number was. The plan is - break into Cyberdine and destroy everything that remains from the Terminator of 1984 whilst avoiding the liquid metal terminator that is trying to kill them (Now just why was it that Skynet didn't send the liquid guy first?) Anyway, they ARE successful and destroy all of the remaining evidence that would lead to the development of the machines. This effectively destroys any adherence to the concepts of the time-line that were introduced in the first film. In this film they ARE apparently able to change the future. They ARE able to create a new time-line in which they can continue living uninterrupted by the fact that Skynet should supposedly not exist now. Following the logic of the first film (fatalist - fixed time-line) causing Skynet to not exist should have eliminated any possible time travel from ever occurring, or least the need for it. If no time travel occurs then Reese would never have come to 1984 - there would be NO John Connor at all! The only way for 13 year old John to continue to exist is if a NEW timeline now exists - operating independently of the previous one.

However, before we cry "Foul!" let's examine T3. In this film it is established that Judgment Day has not been prevented and that it is, in fact, inevitable. If this is the case then maybe the timeline isn't strictly fixed, except that some larger events are preordained. Judgment Day was only postponed by the events of T2. This would lend to the idea of some sort of "interstate/freeway" view of the timeline. Time is on a fixed path, but can handle detours. However, all side-roads eventually lead back to the main freeway. (I don't know, I just made all that up.) The film concludes with Judgment day happening, not in 1997 but in 2003 or thereabouts. So now, all of the inconsistencies between T1 and T2 have been resolved . . . sort of.

On to 2018 and Terminator: Salvation. "This is not the future my mother warned me of". Well, it still looks a lot like it, John. Maybe Reese just forgot to mention to Sarah the part about taking human prisoners. "Oh yeah, Sarah, there was this one time in 2018 . . ." Anyway, it is clear that John Connor is establishing that this is an alternate timeline from the one that produced Kyle Reese's trip to 1984. So the idea that time is still sort of fixed is challenged. At least if the timeline was to fix itself by having Judgment Day only postponed 6 years then why would things still be happening differently. The only consistent answer is that T:S happens in an alternate timeline.(By the way, I'm from Longview, TX so we all got a kick out of the opening scene of the film.) John is now a sergeant or something in the resistance's army. He is gradually building a following, but he's not the savior figure that the other movies gush over, at least not yet. In the interest of not giving away any particulars about the film that would otherwise ruin someone's experience, let's just suffice it to say that John is very interested in keeping Chekov, I mean Kyle, SAFE. If anything happens to Kyle then the whole future, as well as John's butt, are kaput!

Connor operates under the impression that if he doesn't act and Kyle dies then he (John) won't exist anymore. Has he learned nothing from this whole experience? I mean, if anyone should be an expert in all things temporal, shouldn't it be John Connor? If after preventing Judgment Day, John Connor's existence wasn't eliminated, why would it be eliminated by the death of Kyle now? If the timelines fixed (as in T1) the future can't be changed and Kyle effectively CAN'T be killed. If the future is not set and alternate timelines can exist (as in T2) then it wouldn't matter is Kyle died or not. John would simply continue to exist in the alternate timeline (the one in which Kyle DID live and came back in time to 1984) he's already in. And if time is a little of both (as in T3), Kyle's death can and will be worked out one way or another in the long run.

The problem with time travel stories is that it's very difficult to be consistent in applying whatever rules concerning paradoxes that you've established. The timeline can be fixed or it can be fluid, but it can't be both. The law of non-contradiction applies. There are so many contradictions in the Terminator timelines that I've lost count (that's without introducing the TV series).

I guess my point is that if you want to enjoy a Terminator film then the best thing you can do is not think too much about it and just have fun watching Arnold or Christian blow stuff up. That and see some really cool Special FX. I've liked all of the movies, T3 being the weakest entry - but still fun. Terminator: Salvation with all it's story weaknesses and above mentioned discrepancies concerning the pseudo-science of time travel, is still a fun movie that allows for pure escapism. Not to mention the fact that it looks amazing! I'll definitely be picking this one up to show off my display!

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by VinnAY

OK question if it didn't get asked and answered in 922 posts...sue me.

OK, Why was JC ascting surprised at Marcus being a prototype T800? I mean, JC KNOWS that T's are going to be this way...he seemed to play the scene like he had no idea that SkyNet was working on this.
The only thing I could think of was that folks in his "present" weren't supposed to know that he head T's coming back in time to kill him.

I was just a little miffed and scratching my head when he seemed completely oblivious to a T800 cyborg.

he didn't know they were working on anything like marcus
the T-800 didn't have organs and other human parts
it was just synthetic human flesh over metal endoskeleton
marcus was actually alive, organs working and all
thas why he was surprised
he was never warned about anything like that (doesn't he even say that in the movie?)

[SPH]

Originally Posted by Sussudio

i actually loved that scene, because to me it showed how no matter how "human" machines try to be, they'll always fail when it comes to actual human train of thought. connor outsmarted a terminator not with a grenade, mine, or gun, but with a single rope. i personally thought it was a very nice touch

I was talking about the tow truck, that one you mentioned was good and with "you could be mine" as the lure I thought was a big nod to Cameron.

[cj-kent]

Originally Posted by VinnAY

OK question if it didn't get asked and answered in 922 posts...sue me.

OK, Why was JC ascting surprised at Marcus being a prototype T800? I mean, JC KNOWS that T's are going to be this way...he seemed to play the scene like he had no idea that SkyNet was working on this.
The only thing I could think of was that folks in his "present" weren't supposed to know that he head T's coming back in time to kill him.

I was just a little miffed and scratching my head when he seemed completely oblivious to a T800 cyborg.

Marcus isn't a T-800. As far as I know, it's never disclosed as to what his designation is. He's called a prototype.

Connor is surprised because he's never seen a machine that had living organs inside. All the others were completely robotic (inorganic) with living tissue on the outside.

Hope this helps.

[groove93]

Originally Posted by cj-kent

All of the weaknesses of the story that have been mentioned are valid and are certainly worth noting. However, the biggest thing that bugged me about this film was the inconsistency with which they treat the timeline.

THE TIME-TRAVEL CONUNDRUM



On to 2018 and Terminator: Salvation. "This is not the future my mother warned me of". Well, it still looks a lot like it, John. Maybe Reese just forgot to mention to Sarah the part about taking human prisoners. "Oh yeah, Sarah, there was this one time in 2018 . . ."

But Reese did infact tell Sarah about Humans being exterminated in the first film. I think he was referencing the fact that Marcus in his current form was not part of the plan, meaning a Cyborg with living organs other than just skin.

[GoYanks]

Originally Posted by cj-kent

Marcus isn't a T-800. As far as I know, it's never disclosed as to what his designation is. He's called a prototype.

Connor is surprised because he's never seen a machine that had living organs inside. All the others were completely robotic (inorganic) with living tissue on the outside.

Hope this helps.

Marcus is definitely one of a kind. They even say it.

As far as the movie goes, it could have been better. They over-complicated what could have been a simple, yet dramatic movie about post-apocalyptic robots and their war with humanity.

[ScarredLungs]

Originally Posted by obiwopkenobi62

The wife and I saw it yesterday and loved it. for all those complaining about continuity I have this to say.
When you are doing movies that deal with time travel you can pretty much do anything you want and get away with it because it's all theoretical.
Seriously, think about Star Trek shows and movies, Back to the Future etc. You can explain away anything when dealing with time travel.
Just sit back and enjoy the ride. No movie is perfect but IMO this movie delivered, plain and simple. Can't wait for the Bluray.

Very well put and I agree. I thought this movie fit in well with the other 3 movies anyway.

[cj-kent]

Originally Posted by groove93

But Reese did infact tell Sarah about Humans being exterminated in the first film. I think he was referencing the fact that Marcus in his current form was not part of the plan, meaning a Cyborg with living organs other than just skin.

Yes. I was poking fun.

[cj-kent]

Originally Posted by GoYanks

Marcus is definitely one of a kind. They even say it.

As far as the movie goes, it could have been better. They over-complicated what could have been a simple, yet dramatic movie about post-apocalyptic robots and their war with humanity.

Yeah. That's kind of my point. That's why I wrote that ridiculously long article about time travel a few posts ago. We tend to over-think a bit too. They engineer these films with the fan/critic in mind. The problem is - you can't make everyone happy. It's probably best to try to be consistent on a secondary level, but never let that get in the way of making an entertaining film! This is entertainment!

[cj-kent]

Originally Posted by DVDave

Marcus is a T-RIP (Resistance Infiltrator Prototype). He's one-of-a-kind. He's the only actual human/cyborg terminator. That's why he believes he is still a human being and is shocked to discover that he's been Frankensteined into a machine. Skynet wanted a convincing human Infiltrator but what it didn't anticipate was that the human mind would still believe that it was human and its humanity would win out over its machine programming. This is why Marcus says "I'm the only hope you've got."

Cool. I didn't know it was ever called by a terminator designation.

[Diesel]

seeing it again in about 2 hours

gonna see if i catch anything i may have missed the other time around

[JamesKurtovich]

I loved this movie. Very fun and more entertaining than Star Trek.