Official Terminator Thread

[GreenScar]

I wanted to add some interesting observations I made seeing it a second time.

• When John Connor is seeing the upload of SkyNet information and see's the T-800 schematics, he comments, "That's different." He seems alarmed when he says this. Maybe the T-800 of this timeline is more advanced? Also the computer screen says it takes 40 days for the skin/flesh to be completed. This probably means that most T-800's will be unleashed without the flesh exterior.
  
• Even John's superior officer in the first mission (before he's killed) is pretty disrespectful toward John. Almost like he was bothered by him.
  
• John Connor had much more screen time than Marcus. Marcus was involved in more action sequences which is probably why more people in the forum gets this wrong. Bale did a great job. I think maybe too much was going on for people to concentrate on his performance.
  
• I still think they shouldn't of had the opening scene with Marcus in jail. It would've been enough with him not sure what had happened to him and him seeing the headlines like he did at SkyNet.
  
• All of the terminators up to this point are quite rudimentary compared to the T-800. The T-600 was slow and probably the most sophisticated but even had targeting issues.
  
• SkyNet was after Reese for some other reason than to Terminate him. This is obvious by the screens from the Terminators that identify him. Whenever Connor is identified it says "Terminate". It never said that with Reese (that I remember).
  
• There were many moments where Marcus would be in the process of doing something and he would visibly catch himself, change his expression and do something different than he was in the process of doing. This must've been his brain battling with the "suggestions" his CPU would make.
  
• John's wife indeed had plenty of speaking parts in the movie.
  
• The tracking machine that John was using to find the cell Reese was held in (that actually had a T-800 in it) had the same sound effects as the sonar used to track the Aliens in Aliens. I thought this was pretty cool.
  
• When Marcus jumps down from the Computer mainframe level to where John is battling the T-800 (when he first lands) there's a T-800 in the background with full skin/flesh still being manufactured.
  
• The T-600 at SkyNet wasn't trying to kill Reese, he was trying to get him on a CAT Scan type machine.
  
• The Pipe actually does go through John's chest (looks like just above where the heart would be).

Now a question. Could Marcus later be revived with another heart?

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by GreenScar

No he did not. He looked very life like. I paid close attention to it the second time around. Probably the best CG face ever made in any film.

agreed, i thought maybe i was too excited the first time and over looked the quality of the cgi and made it seem better than it was
this time around i paid close attention, the face was FANTASTIC
it looked EXACTLY like his younger self
insane compliments to whatever ILM team members pulled that off

Also paid attention to this (and a lot of the other gripes in the thread here) and the Hunter Killer isn't destroyed by the Mobile Terminator when it hits. In fact the explosion is actually the destruction of the Mobile Terminator. The HK looses altitude for a minute then reappears.

i also paid attention to that and the other complaints about the movie
the first thing i noticed was that macrus did NOT try to do that
the bike just crashed into something and was flung into the air, and then it happened as you said
so there was no convenient take down of the HK (but it is eventually shot down by the resistance jets)

A inserted some answers in bold.

1. you know i TOTALLY missed that the first time. this time around i was thinking to myself "oooooohhh, the tracking signal is taking him to the cell that was supposed to be kyle's. (thus that also means Skynet knew marcus would send the info to connor)

2. and normally it would be impossible to get in, but if you notice, Connor uses the red eye of the moto-terminator to gain access, thats the only way in, he wouldn't have been able to normally hack his way in, he needed the eye, i also missed that the first time somehow.

3. yes i agree, the T-800's were all most likely in production. the 600s were also most likely out of production just by looking at how old the ones shown look.
And that also answers the complaint alot of people lodged about "how come you have advanced this and that, but crappy terminators"
the 600s are OLD, i caught it (and remembered) this time when Connor says in his broadcast that "the t-600s are a primitive design. they are slow" and i believe he also may have said unintelligent but i don't remember for sure. So there's you guys' answer for why the terminators weren't as advanced as the other machines.

4. you're pretty much right about why he didn't kill them. i can't think of anything to add to that. [/quote]

You may have something there. There were definitely some jarring cuts here and there where you knew a scene should have been there. When will the studios learn and allow the entire movie to be released?

yes i noticed the sudden cuts better this time when they happened.
the easiest one to spot was when the moon bloodgood topless scene was supposed to be. she is taking off her jacket checking her self after marcus walks away and then it cuts to her outside, antibiotics all laid out and her with all her shirt/jacket back on and zipped.

I have an interesting theory here. When they showed Reese through the Terminator's eyes, it never said Terminate. It always said Terminate for John Connor though. Maybe the "kill list" with Reese being number one was never a kill list at all. Maybe it was a list of importance. When the t-600 came to Reese's cell it collected him and was in the process of putting him on a table that looked kind of like a CAT-Scan machine. There was a glimpse of another human moments before on one of these tables (it was a member of the resistance that actually looked a lot like the guy that Marcus stole his clothes from in the beginning). I think this machine was to make t-800's out of the people "scanned in". I'm thinking the plan of SkyNet all along is to make a Reese Terminator. Just think about the possibilities they would develop.

i thought the same thing about them maybe making kyle into a terminator when they showed him by the scanning looking machines, but i didn't think of it as a marcus like kyle, but making a terminator in kyles image like the T-800 and where ever that image comes from (and no, no body mention the deleted scene from T3...please)

[GreenScar]

Originally Posted by DVDave

Except that his organic flesh would decay and so will his organs and brain. Skynet resynthesized his damaged flesh but how could it replicate his brain and consciousness?

Yea, good point. I think the flesh itself is self generating (fast healing). The Brain and other organs would be the problem.

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by GreenScar

I wanted to add some interesting observations I made seeing it a second time.


When John Connor is seeing the upload of SkyNet information and see's the T-800 schematics, he comments, "That's different." He seems alarmed when he says this. Maybe the T-800 of this timeline is more advanced? Also the computer screen says it takes 40 days for the skin/flesh to be completed. This probably means that most T-800's will be unleashed without the flesh exterior.

when they showed the schematics this time and connor was looking at them and seemed surprised by them (besides the fact that it was a decade too soon to be complete), i began to think that maybe this one was more advanced, and more resistant to damage (like the molten liquid and the flash freezing), not sure if its true, but that could explain it not melting, even though the molten liquid was clearly eating through it because it was shiny when it got covered, and completely dull when it came out, maybe the alloy was just more dense and harder to melt in this new future

Even John's superior officer in the first mission (before he's killed) is pretty disrespectful toward John. Almost like he was bothered by him.

i noticed that everyone with a higher standing in the reistance looks down on him pretty much (except the dude with the accent) but all the soldiers look up to him and view him as the real leader because of him caring about the people

John Connor had much more screen time than Marcus. Marcus was involved in more action sequences which is probably why more people in the forum gets this wrong. Bale did a great job. I think maybe too much was going on for people to concentrate on his performance.

i liked bales performance even more so the second time around, especially that part from my sig, that was probably my favorite of his scenes, i think Sam Worthington seems to be getting all the praise/focus because of his outstanding performance, even though bale did great as well, Worthington just seemed to stand out more so, probably because of the whole we are going through the story as he goes through it thing.

also, i made sure to listen incredibly closely to bale in every scene, and this time i heard not one trace of the batman voice anywhere, it was entirely different

I still think they shouldn't of had the opening scene with Marcus in jail. It would've been enough with him not sure what had happened to him and him seeing the headlines like he did at SkyNet.

i was thinking of that during the film this time
i would have liked for them to open the film with the text like they did (which was sarah connor's exact intro for T2 until the last few lines, for those that didn't notice), then go to the missile view shot they show after marcus's scene, the jail scene i would have liked them to insert the him signing and what he was signing part when he was having his flashbacks after being blown up by the mine, they would have fit there perfectly, and set up the shocker that was about to happen.

All of the terminators up to this point are quite rudimentary compared to the T-800. The T-600 was slow and probably the most sophisticated but even had targeting issues.

SkyNet was after Reese for some other reason than to Terminate him. This is obvious by the screens from the Terminators that identify him. Whenever Connor is identified it says "Terminate". It never said that with Reese (that I remember).

agreed

There were many moments where Marcus would be in the process of doing something and he would visibly catch himself, change his expression and do something different than he was in the process of doing. This must've been his brain battling with the "suggestions" his CPU would make.

the main thing i caught from him this time that i didn't really notice last time, his subtle rubbing/scratching of the back of his head in several scenes (where the chip is)

John's wife indeed had plenty of speaking parts in the movie.

indeed, more so that i thought she did the first time i saw it, i guess she just didn't stand out because of the rest of the things going on, but this time i noticed her a lot more, still hoping for an expanded part for her in the next film

The tracking machine that John was using to find the cell Reese was held in (that actually had a T-800 in it) had the same sound effects as the sonar used to track the Aliens in Aliens. I thought this was pretty cool.

really? didn't catch that

When Marcus jumps down from the Computer mainframe level to where John is battling the T-800 (when he first lands) there's a T-800 in the background with full skin/flesh still being manufactured.

that either...guess i needa see it one more time

The Pipe actually does go through John's chest (looks like just above where the heart would be).

to me it looked slightly up and to the center of where the heart was
but not by very much

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by GreenScar

Yea, good point. I think the flesh itself is self generating (fast healing). The Brain and other organs would be the problem.

yea i think it does heal faster than normal
doesn't Kate mention that? or am i remembering wrong

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by DVDave

Agreed. For narrative consistency with the other films, Marcus should have an "arrival" scene reminiscent of Reese's arrival in T1 since he is our vehicle into this period and his story about his past told through flashbacks similar to Reese's future flashbacks in T1.

shouldn't the him climbing out of the underground lab connor's team was in be considered his arrival scene?

Very interesting. Maybe Skynet doesn't know Reese is the father after all. It would be interesting to see if some deleted scenes on the Blu-ray address this or McG himself explains this in his commentary.

he was head of the LA branch after all

[GreenScar]

Originally Posted by Diesel

also, i made sure to listen incredibly closely to bale in every scene, and this time i heard not one trace of the batman voice anywhere, it was entirely different

Absolutely. The only similarity is that it's the same Actor. There was no Batman voice in this.

the main thing i caught from him this time that i didn't really notice last time, his subtle rubbing/scratching of the back of his head in several scenes (where the chip is)

Your right and occasionally he would look at his arm (like when he slightly cut it and Star gave him a band-aid) like something was different.

to me it looked slightly up and to the center of where the heart was
but not by very much

It was such a quick shot, you could be right. I just remember thinking after the first one that it was lower, but it clearly was higher.

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by DVDave

I always have a problem with this. He just comes up covered in mud out of nowhere. We see a glimpse of him lying on the table but it's never explained how he is "awakened." Another deleted scene perhaps or just another plot hole? I guess I would have written something much more symbolic and a more dramatic "rebirth."

yea you have a point, i would like an explanation about how/why he woke up all of a sudden, but as far as the actual arrival i liked the climbing out scene

That's true if the list is targeting leaders but how does Skynet even know of his existence?

deleted scene may explain how they know of him or its still the plot hole
he wasn't technically a real leader, so i doubt he was on the list for that

i can't wait to see these 30-40 extra minutes

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by GreenScar

Absolutely. The only similarity is that it's the same Actor. There was no Batman voice in this.

Your right and occasionally he would look at his arm (like when he slightly cut it and Star gave him a band-aid) like something was different.


It was such a quick shot, you could be right. I just remember thinking after the first one that it was lower, but it clearly was higher.

i was thinking about that too

since the gun shots later on clearly don't actually hurt him, when he cut his arm and looks at it i was thinking he was probably telling himself that should have hurt at least a little but it didn't


i enjoyed this move so much more this time around, and i loved it the first time
McG made a hell of a movie IMO

[GreenScar]

I just thought he was woken when the power went off due to the explosion. I think the only directive he had at the time was to sync with SkyNet. Because of this, he was able to adjust so to speak and his brain became the dominate decision maker. Other wise, if he would have done the sync early he would've probably been controlled by the CPU.

[GreenScar]

I think the whole Reese thing will be explained in the sequel.

[Diesel]

one thing i haven't seen mentioned too much is the subtext of the film, that the main idea of these movies is being played out not just across the series as the main driving story but within marcus himself

that is, man vs machine

which has the upper hand and which is the dominate existence

it was one of the most intriguing parts of his character, most people i know have never even thought of that, they just said "yea he's part robot / part human, thats cool" and didn't really think about it and look deeper

[GreenScar]

Lastly, people are bagging on the writers quite a bit. The main writer on this ended up being Jonathan Nolan. He didn't get credited because he wasn't the first:

According to McG, Nolan was “the lead writer of the film,” and “I don’t know how the WGA rules work but honest to goodness, we did the heaviest lifting with Jonah.” Currently, Nolan is uncredited on the film’s IMDB page.

Source

Nolan also wrote fan favorites:

Memento
The Prestige
The Dark Knight

[GreenScar]

Originally Posted by Diesel

one thing i haven't seen mentioned too much is the subtext of the film, that the main idea of these movies is being played out not just across the series as the main driving story but within marcus himself

that is, man vs machine

which has the upper hand and which is the dominate existence

That's why when I read a lot of the reviews I think it just flew right over some peoples heads. It's an action movie that you have to think about and pay attention to.

Remember that RT has it at 33% Fresh, but the community has it at 72% with over 1300 reviews.

[Y2K000]

I saw the movie on Friday and I was not pleased with it. I was bored from the very beginning until the end. Guess I am just weird like that.

[GreenScar]

Originally Posted by Y2K000

I saw the movie on Friday and I was not pleased with it. I was bored from the very beginning until the end. Guess I am just weird like that.

It happens. Your just as normal as the rest of us.

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by GreenScar

That's why when I read a lot of the reviews I think it just flew right over some peoples heads. It's an action movie that you have to think about and pay attention to.

Remember that RT has it at 33% Fresh, but the community has it at 72% with over 1300 reviews.

exactly

on the surface it seems like a total popcorn flick, which if you don't think about it or read too much into it, it passes as that perfectly
but once you start looking at it, its more than that, and also a better movie

[Diesel]

so have we turned this into the Terminator Salvation: Review Thread

[Diesel]

anyone else glad they dropped The Future Begins from the title months ago?
i thought that was so lame of a title

[Buggy166]

i thought the characters didnt have enough development and the entire movie was about that cyborg person redeeming himself while connor was a secondary figure in it overall.

to say the very least...the movie didnt add anything to the unverse of terminator except stellar fx and decent acting which it previously lacked. The story wasnt needed and felt like a "oh and btw..this is what happened after judgement day...but not right after...like..10-20 years after"

it was okay...a 7.5/10 in my book due to the mediocre storyline...everything else was good.