First Blood / Rambo: First Blood Part II / Rambo III 4K UHDs (1982-1988)

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by KidA

Is it safe to say that the Italian Eagle 4kult releases look the best? I’m considering ordering the Eagle Total Recall and wouldn’t mind adding First Blood I & II if they’re worth it.

Their Total Recall disc is a definite upgrade, plus it has the original 5.1 audio.

[KidA]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

Their Total Recall disc is a definite upgrade, plus it has the original 5.1 audio.

I love me some original audio

[x5gb]

Creating a custom forced .sup version for 4Kult Rambo III including the original correct Russian translations (based on burnt in ones). Location caption's wise, outside of the "Peshawar, Pakistan - Near the Afghan border" one at around 17 mins, is there anymore as I can't remember. Thanks for any help in advance.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

Their Total Recall disc is a definite upgrade, plus it has the original 5.1 audio.

Total Recall was in 70MM (SR) 4.2 & 35MM 2.0, not 5.1 - so not quite original.

[Markgway]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Total Recall was in 70MM (SR) 4.2 & 35MM 2.0, not 5.1 - so not quite original.

Do you ever get 4.2 audio on discs?

Isn't 5.1 the nearest thing?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Markgway

Do you ever get 4.2 audio on discs?

Isn't 5.1 the nearest thing?

4.1 would be. It's rare though, so companies can claim to fill your speakers as someone else would say.

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Total Recall was in 70MM (SR) 4.2 & 35MM 2.0, not 5.1 - so not quite original.

The 70mm was 6-track. Regardless, the 5.1 track has no added sound effects or alterations. It's the original mix.

[Noremac Mij]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

The 70mm was 6-track. Regardless, the 5.1 track has no added sound effects or alterations. It's the original mix.

How in the hell can 5.1 be the original mix?

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by Noremac Mij

How in the hell can 5.1 be the original mix?

70mm 6-track = 5.1

Jim, for someone who thinks himself so knowledgeable, you can be quite dim.

[bludarkknight]

Originally Posted by Noremac Mij

How in the hell can 5.1 be the original mix?

No 70mm six-track uncompressed audio for 'First Blood' for 1992.


Rambo II was first release in 70mm Dolby six-track A-type with THX/TAP and another high end sound system competitor HPS-4000.
https://www.in70mm.com/library/engag...ambo/index.htm

First blood, may have used stem tracks to create a discrete 5.1? I didn't like the DVD box set release or Rambo 2, had odd sound leakage and totality put me off on bluray format and certainly now uhd thinking it be another milking cash cow scam.

No 70mm for Rambo III

Rambo III on DVD sounds 100% discrete in the 5.1, they must have used stem tracks and done a decent re-mix.
Rambo III was released maybe in two prints A and SR to cinemas fitted with SR cards. SR sound is best analog sound you'd even hear even today, providing of course you can find a 35/70 cinema that has all formats available.

[Mikezilla3k]

Sorry if this is a dumb question but are the Italian 4Kult releases of First Blood and Part II better than the US releases and do they have lack English subs for foreign scenes like with Rambo III?

[KidA]

Originally Posted by Mikezilla3k

Sorry if this is a dumb question but are the Italian 4Kult releases of First Blood and Part II better than the US releases and do they have lack English subs for foreign scenes like with Rambo III?

Based on what I’ve seen mentioned on these forums, First Blood is overall an upgrade over the Lionsgate or Studio Canal releases. Part II & III are questionably better, but possibly have their own issues and they do not contain English subs. Hopefully someone else can chime in who’s actually compared the various releases. Unfortunately, I recently shopped around online and the 4kult of First Blood seems to be sold out (or unavailable to ship to the US).

[DMRI2006]

Originally Posted by Mikezilla3k

Sorry if this is a dumb question but are the Italian 4Kult releases of First Blood and Part II better than the US releases and do they have lack English subs for foreign scenes like with Rambo III?

"Better" is probably a relative term. People who have it prefer the compression on the 4Kult, but the Studio Canal is at least a better option than the Lionsgate release, which has some real problematic sections. (Even in motion the SC looks better to me since I imported it a couple of weeks ago).

On the downside: the 4Kult lacks the English subs on the sequels, and none of these UHD's have the original audio. All of them have the lame 5.1 tracks.

Overall it really depends on how into these movies you are. If you're trying to save money the Lionsgate is by far the cheapest if you're in the US but it's overall the weakest of the three especially when it comes to the first movie. If you want something a little better the Studio Canal is the way to go. If you want to spend more cash the 4Kult may be the best, but for me, the lack of English subs is a killer so I didn't bother with it, and like KidA wrote, it's the hardest by far to track down and import.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

The 70mm was 6-track. Regardless, the 5.1 track has no added sound effects or alterations. It's the original mix.

If the surrounds are stereo it's altered. The "6 track" in question was the left, center, right, surround, baby boom (bass) 1 and baby boom 2.

The vast majority of remixes, from mono to stereo to 5.1 to Atmos have no added sound effects. Adding them costs additional money and can alter intent. Sometimes people claim to hear additional sound effects but were present all along in the original - they were just "buried" under all the other stuff and now they're hearing them for the first time. Perceptual encoding on lossy audio relies on this fact BTW. Sounds that aren't loud enough to get heard get "thrown away" by the encoder.

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

70mm 6-track = 5.1

Jim, for someone who thinks himself so knowledgeable, you can be quite dim.

ONLY if the surrounds were in stereo, which was pretty rare for the 70MM format and after 1978. Superman being the experimental track and Apocalypse Now being the first wide release in the format. Notable 70MM true 5.1 releases include Top Gun, The Hunt For Red October, Cliffhanger, and Star Trek VI - which was also the first experimental release in Dolby Digital.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by bludarkknight

Rambo II was first release in 70mm Dolby six-track A-type with THX/TAP and another high end sound system competitor HPS-4000.

First blood, may have used stem tracks to create a discrete 5.1? I didn't like the DVD box set release or Rambo 2, had odd sound leakage and totality put me off on bluray format and certainly now uhd thinking it be another milking cash cow scam.

Carolco went bankrupt and apparently Rambo II's original audio tracks got lost in the shuffle, they only recently discovered the original 3-track stereo masters for the music! The Blu-rays and UHDs are a remix from mono!

I hope someday Studio Canal sees fit to remaster it and find all the original audio tracks.

[Noremac Mij]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

70mm 6-track = 5.1

Jim, for someone who thinks himself so knowledgeable, you can be quite dim.

You haven’t got a clue on what you’re talking about or even understand what a “mix” is and I’m dim?

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

If the surrounds are stereo it's altered. The "6 track" in question was the left, center, right, surround, baby boom (bass) 1 and baby boom 2.

The vast majority of remixes, from mono to stereo to 5.1 to Atmos have no added sound effects. Adding them costs additional money and can alter intent. Sometimes people claim to hear additional sound effects but were present all along in the original - they were just "buried" under all the other stuff and now they're hearing them for the first time. Perceptual encoding on lossy audio relies on this fact BTW. Sounds that aren't loud enough to get heard get "thrown away" by the encoder.



ONLY if the surrounds were in stereo, which was pretty rare for the 70MM format and after 1978. Superman being the experimental track and Apocalypse Now being the first wide release in the format. Notable 70MM true 5.1 releases include Top Gun, The Hunt For Red October, Cliffhanger, and Star Trek VI - which was also the first experimental release in Dolby Digital.

Link it up.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

If the surrounds are stereo it's altered. The "6 track" in question was the left, center, right, surround, baby boom (bass) 1 and baby boom 2.

The vast majority of remixes, from mono to stereo to 5.1 to Atmos have no added sound effects. Adding them costs additional money and can alter intent. Sometimes people claim to hear additional sound effects but were present all along in the original - they were just "buried" under all the other stuff and now they're hearing them for the first time. Perceptual encoding on lossy audio relies on this fact BTW. Sounds that aren't loud enough to get heard get "thrown away" by the encoder.

Wow. I’ve heard some shit in my time but “the vast majority of remixes don’t add any effects and if you hear ‘new’ effects they were there all along but lossy wasn’t good enough to reproduce them” is one of the biggest dung-heaps I’ve yet come across. And aren’t you the one who keeps telling us that 640 kb/s Dolby Digital is transparent to the source, only now it’s not?

[bludarkknight]

Inside my CP200 processor unit.
Cat142 card for baby boom and split-surrounds. card can be set to auto on or off.
Format 42 and 43 the card switches the mag tracks to the assigned channel output Le Re that has boom track or mono discrete surround or if has split surround. Format 40 41 is for five wide channels that uses the Le Re for say movies like, 'Logan's Run' Todd-AO 70mm using A-type. Or 'Star Trek the wrath of khan' format 42 A-type or 'Top Gun' format 43 SS A-type. 'First Blood' format 04 A-type. 'Star Trek VI' format 46 SR SS.

[Markgway]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Carolco went bankrupt and apparently Rambo II's original audio tracks got lost in the shuffle, they only recently discovered the original 3-track stereo masters for the music! The Blu-rays and UHDs are a remix from mono!

I hope someday Studio Canal sees fit to remaster it and find all the original audio tracks.

The older Blu-rays (for the trilogy) have 2.0 tracks which were reportedly from original 35mm stereo mixes.

Doesn't look like Part 2's 70mm 6-channel mix has ever been available.

And whilst I would prefer these 6-channel mixes to be accurate (be it 4:2 or 5.1) I'm OK, I think, with them being 5.1 tweaks. I think that's as good as we can expect these days for 70mm audio. Of course should Total Recall be re-released with a 4:2 track I'm on it!