I've had it with Millcreek

[RillIris]

Originally Posted by jkoffman

I received 2 completely scratched brand new BDs just last week that were damaged due to stacking.

Something interesting I don’t know if allot of people realize, disc generally show up from the replicators stacked before they are even packaged. This is why the bad circular scratches on disc are actually nearly as common on disc from regular cases as from ones where they are stacked. Especially the bottom disc from a large stack on a spindle are more likely to get scratched prior to packaging due to the weight of the other disc on top of it. My most recent scratched disc had numerous circular scratches where it was obvious the disc was severely rubbing against something, but was in a standard Blu-ray case, and it definitely wasn’t rubbing against the plastic inside the case itself. Unfortunately disc just do come direct from the factories already damaged, just like how it’s been discovered allot of SteelBook releases have spine slashes sealed under the shrink wrap, as it’s not the store that actually did it.

[joonskeezle]

Originally Posted by RillIris

Something interesting I don’t know if allot of people realize, disc generally show up from the replicators stacked before they are even packaged. This is why the bad circular scratches on disc are actually nearly as common on disc from regular cases as from ones where they are stacked. Especially the bottom disc from a large stack on a spindle are more likely to get scratched prior to packaging due to the weight of the other disc on top of it. My most recent scratched disc had numerous circular scratches where it was obvious the disc was severely rubbing against something, but was in a standard Blu-ray case, and it definitely wasn’t rubbing against the plastic inside the case itself. Unfortunately disc just do come direct from the factories already damaged, just like how it’s been discovered allot of SteelBook releases have spine slashes sealed under the shrink wrap, as it’s not the store that actually did it.

They absolutely are not.

I have almost never seen a concentric scratch on a disc that wasn't stacked in the case. And I'm conceding "almost" because I genuinely don't recall EVER seeing it happen.

Furthermore, in the stacked collections where there are concentric scratches, I've never seen the bottom disc have such scratches. In the P&R set and the Community set, it was only the discs resting on top of other discs that had those scratches.

Not saying it's impossible for non-stacked discs to have those scratches. I'm saying that stacking discs dramatically and demonstrably increases the likelihood of those scratches.

[RillIris]

Originally Posted by joonskeezle

They absolutely are not.

I have almost never seen a concentric scratch on a disc that wasn't stacked in the case. And I'm conceding "almost" because I genuinely don't recall EVER seeing it happen.

Furthermore, in the stacked collections where there are concentric scratches, I've never seen the bottom disc have such scratches. In the P&R set and the Community set, it was only the discs resting on top of other discs that had those scratches.

Not saying it's impossible for non-stacked discs to have those scratches. I'm saying that stacking discs dramatically and demonstrably increases the likelihood of those scratches.

I’ve gotten plenty of disk with those scratches over the years that weren’t stacked, I’d actually say concentric scratches in any case where there isn’t a floater are the more common scratch to see full stop. I remember the LOTR extended DVD’s I had to exchange 2 of the 3 due to this, and you could tell plainly from the packaging there was no way for those scratches to have come from the case whatsoever. I am saying stacking can contribute, but also saying you’d be surprised how common that kind of scratch is even in a normal hubbed case.

The reason as I found out is the disc when they arrive for packaging are in giant stacks on spindles, very similar to how you’d buy blank CD’s in bulk on a spindle but a bigger stack, and are pulled off one by one into the cases. Ultimately the actual bottom disc is usually well protected as it’s only the center resting against something in these heaps, but the disc directly on top of that one at the bottom will have 50 plus disc atop it initially. That’s allot of weight, and any bit of dust coupled with the disc spinning can result in some bad scratches. For shipping purposes those stacks should be transported on their sides as it removes that pressure, but if they are shipped standing up then you’re likely going to have bad concentric scratches on a number of especially those lower disc before they are even put into cases.

[joonskeezle]

Originally Posted by RillIris

I’ve gotten plenty of disk with those scratches over the years that weren’t stacked, I’d actually say concentric scratches in any case where there isn’t a floater are the more common scratch to see full stop. I remember the LOTR extended DVD’s I had to exchange 2 of the 3 due to this, and you could tell plainly from the packaging there was no way for those scratches to have come from the case whatsoever. I am saying stacking can contribute, but also saying you’d be surprised how common that kind of scratch is even in a normal hubbed case.

The reason as I found out is the disc when they arrive for packaging are in giant stacks on spindles, very similar to how you’d buy blank CD’s in bulk on a spindle but a bigger stack, and are pulled off one by one into the cases. Ultimately the actual bottom disc is usually well protected as it’s only the center resting against something in these heaps, but the disc directly on top of that one at the bottom will have 50 plus disc atop it initially. That’s allot of weight, and any bit of dust coupled with the disc spinning can result in some bad scratches. For shipping purposes those stacks should be transported on their sides as it removes that pressure, but if they are shipped standing up then you’re likely going to have bad concentric scratches on a number of especially those lower disc before they are even put into cases.

You're saying this like I haven't bought thousands of movies in my life as well. (In fact, your "lesson" on how discs are transported makes me think you believe I've never seen a disc before in my life.) And I've been obsessive over scratches since discs became a medium. To a degree that some would say classified as unhealthy. And the one thing I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt is that concentric scratches in cases that are not stackers are extraordinarily rare, and so common as to be practically expected in stacker cases. And again, you've completely ignored the examples of the P&R and Community sets, where the discs at the bottom had no concentric scratches, and the discs resting on top of other discs did.

In my experience, the most common scratches are perpendicular, often near the edge, likely caused by one machine or another during manufacturing or pressing. But these scratches rarely cause playback issues, which is why we generally tolerate them.

Originally Posted by RillIris

Oh and another issue that contributes is the labels some studios use, if they aren’t perfectly smooth then when stacked the label on top of one disc can act like sandpaper to another. I note this as some actual cases don’t actually elevate the disc off the plastic of the case even which is absurd but is what it is, but you don’t usually see scratches anyway because the plastic is a perfectly slick surface.

This is literally the ONLY thing that causes concentric scratches: the movements of the disc on top against the disc below. There is actually more relative movement, since both surfaces can move freely. And what's causing the scratches is typically not the surface of the disc below but any dust or dirt caught between the discs.

[RillIris]

Originally Posted by joonskeezle

You're saying this like I haven't bought thousands of movies in my life as well. (In fact, your "lesson" on how discs are transported makes me think you believe I've never seen a disc before in my life.) And I've been obsessive over scratches since discs became a medium. To a degree that some would say classified as unhealthy. And the one thing I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt is that concentric scratches in cases that are not stackers are extraordinarily rare, and so common as to be practically expected in stacker cases. And again, you've completely ignored the examples of the P&R and Community sets, where the discs at the bottom had no concentric scratches, and the discs resting on top of other discs did.

In my experience, the most common scratches are perpendicular, often near the edge, likely caused by one machine or another during manufacturing or pressing. But these scratches rarely cause playback issues, which is why we generally tolerate them.



This is literally the ONLY thing that causes concentric scratches: the movements of the disc on top against the disc below. There is actually more relative movement, since both surfaces can move freely. And what's causing the scratches is typically not the surface of the disc below but any dust or dirt caught between the discs.

I’m assuming one of those might use one of the deeper spindle cases also? Never have gotten a release with one of those cases just know they exist, that’s why I haven’t commented directly on those releases though. I see the one is quite new also which probably just adds to the issue, as others have pointed out since the pandemic started scratches and fingerprints have been more common across the board. That specific type of spindle case also just reinforces exactly what I said about the added weight of extra disc making the lower, not the bottom, disc more likely to get scraped up due to the extra weight on top of them when spinning. Many concentric scratches do come from prior to packaging though at the manufacturer level and I’m simply explaining how and why that is the case, and often are so surface level many won’t see them unless under the exact right light even. The issue is once that scratch is their, something like stacking makes it much more likely that dust and such will catch and make the scratch even worse, but the scratch very often was their to begin with, and often from my experience just as likely to cause an issue. The worst concentric scratches I see are from the SteelBook cases where the two disc overlap on the right side, and though I often see the top disc scratched in those from the hub of second disc, it’s actually poorly cut ones where I’ve seen the bottom disc get absolutely wrecked by the case itself. Fortunately only see that on like 1/150 SteelBooks I get, but when you get a bad one it’s awful, kind of scratch you can catch your fingernail on.

[joonskeezle]

Originally Posted by RillIris

I’m assuming one of those might use one of the deeper spindle cases also? Never have gotten a release with one of those cases just know they exist, that’s why I haven’t commented directly on those releases though. I see the one is quite new also which probably just adds to the issue, as others have pointed out since the pandemic started scratches and fingerprints have been more common across the board. That specific type of spindle case also just reinforces exactly what I said about the added weight of extra disc making the lower, not the bottom, disc more likely to get scraped up due to the extra weight on top of them when spinning. Many concentric scratches do come from prior to packaging though at the manufacturer level and I’m simply explaining how and why that is the case, and often are so surface level many won’t see them unless under the exact right light even. The issue is once that scratch is their, something like stacking makes it much more likely that dust and such will catch and make the scratch even worse, but the scratch very often was their to begin with, and often from my experience just as likely to cause an issue. The worst concentric scratches I see are from the SteelBook cases where the two disc overlap on the right side, and though I often see the top disc scratched in those from the hub of second disc, it’s actually poorly cut ones where I’ve seen the bottom disc get absolutely wrecked by the case itself. Fortunately only see that on like 1/150 SteelBooks I get, but when you get a bad one it’s awful, kind of scratch you can catch your fingernail on.

Deeper spindle cases? No. The P&R and Community sets are two or three discs stacked. And again, discs on bottom: no concentric scratches. Discs on top: concentric scratches. This is not a coincidence.

Stacker cases have existed since before the pandemic (the Community set came out 2018). And they always caused concentric scratches in the discs that rested on top of other discs. The mechanism didn't change. It's still discs sitting flush on top of other discs, both discs rotating freely against each other.

You seem personally invested in disproving that stacker cases are more prone to causing concentric scratches, which is weird.

[RillIris]

Originally Posted by joonskeezle

Deeper spindle cases? No. The P&R and Community sets are two or three discs stacked. And again, discs on bottom: no concentric scratches. Discs on top: concentric scratches. This is not a coincidence.

Stacker cases have existed since before the pandemic (the Community set came out 2018). And they always caused concentric scratches in the discs that rested on top of other discs. The mechanism didn't change. It's still discs sitting flush on top of other discs, both discs rotating freely against each other.

You seem personally invested in disproving that stacker cases are more prone to causing concentric scratches, which is weird.

I’ve in fact done the exact opposite and pointed out multiple reasons why they both can, and likely create worse scratches than ones than seen in other cases, so I don’t know why you’re trying to say I’m saying otherwise. The only point I’m making that is what you seem to disagree with is that concentric scratches are fairly in non stacked cases also.

*edit* Had to add it’s not that I see severe concentric scratches in other cases often, just that I do often see concentric scratches on disc from all types of packaging far more often than non concentric, though I see fingerprints more often than both. A small 1/4” concentric scratch that might remain that size in a different case is much more likely to expand in a stacked case. Hope that makes more sense to you.