Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Attachment 274778

Pretty close, but more like this phone. Lets just say I was in the Cusp of the Baby Boomers!

yeah but that one is not "voice activated" so the joke does not work as well.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Studios and Distributors will continue to put out Discs, but if they become too costly and the budgets shrink they will cut back to a Trickle . It's not Show Friends it's Show Business!

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

What stupid statements for someone that is clueless to make. Thought about asking Jason Rosenfeld (member here) of Scenic Labs to weigh in on disc manufacturing cost but have not done so.

Originally Posted by alchav21

I know you think you are smarter than anyone and know everything, but why resort to name calling you should be above this. By all means I'd like to hear from someone that knows cost for setting up Disc Replication and Manufacturing of DVD's, BD, and UHD. Kevin from Films-at-Home has brought in people from Independent Studios to talk about Budgets and Cost, which are very slim but their love for Film makes it all worthwhile. Kevin also talks about which Major Studios put out the Best and Worst Discs, and why!

the problem is you are missing the forest for the trees.

It costs lot of money to make a film. The only way a film makes money for the studio is by having people pay money to watch it.



Yes if no one is buying something then studios (or anyone else) will drop it. But disks cost next to nothing to produce and the price we pay is not for cost of goods (aka a bit of plastic - which is why they throw way too many in the packaging) but the content itself (make back the large amount the studio paid to make the film).

What you are missing is the obvious. Let me put it this way loook at Disney (perfect example) They make tons of profit off of disks but they are losings many millions every quarter on Disney+. Now I know Lee will pop up and say Disney is predicting that in a few years their streaming service will be profitable. But never the less that is the problem you are missing Streaming requires millions of dollars on a daily basis to survive while disks require a few pennies and if you sell a handful of copies it helps the films bottom line.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Did your dealer honor the price when ordered or did you have to pay the new price? Would like to see pictures when finished mounting.

Ordered a Zappiti NAS, additional external disc drive and Zappiti Neo media player many weeks ago. Supposed to be delivered this coming Wednesday. Fixing to order 9 WD Red Plus 14TB HDD's, in RAID 5 this will give me 98TB of storage. Will have an extra drive, just in case.

I was good on the pricing front since I ordered it in October. I will update some pics at some point this week or the following. This projector is crazy heavy.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Why would a self professed all digital person give one hoot about that?

So he can throw numbers (that he won't understand) at us when he tells us that disc's days are, well, numbered.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by gotmule

Yup. NZ8. I feel like a kid on Christmas morning right now. I will be using your setup video you shared awhile ago, so thanks again!

I couldn't be happier for you! You must be having a lot of fun setting it up.

Originally Posted by gotmule

This projector is crazy heavy.

Be careful; don't throw out your back or get a hernia. If you do, you'll have to stay home and watch movies to recuperate.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Last night checked Cat People (1982) via ATV4K on Amazon, iTunes Movies, MoviesAnyhere and VUDU for audio and video data rates using Developer HUD*. The video data rate was close from all four, 8 to 10 Mbps. The audio ranged from 192 to 384 Mbps. All the providers must have used the same mezzanine file to create their streaming file, as in the audio was all most mono.

*Apple Developer HUD is a PITA, keeps disappearing from the ATV4K which requires deleting the pair then re-pairing to the Mac Mini and X-Code.

[crutzulee]

I think we're having the best of all worlds right now.
Movie theaters aren't going anywhere any time soon... distributors have so many different home release models at their disposal to maximize the take on each individual title that they can customize to suit their needs.

I just watched THE OUTFIT on streaming. The 4K HDR presentation was stellar on my JVC projector... the shadow details in many of the darker scenes were ridiculously good...I just upgraded my front L/R mains and better aligned my center channel's tweeter with them behind my AT screen.
This was the first movie I auditioned after calibration of the new setup...When the score of this movie swelled to ratchet up the tension, it served it's humble DD+ compressed origins a credit...
I'll buy this title on UHD when it comes out and will more than likely be able to pick out the improvements in the presentation, but I can never take anyone who claims streaming quality is crap seriously..

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by gotmule

This projector is crazy heavy.

Searched and hope this is not a redundant question, what mounting system are you using?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

[Show spoiler]I think we're having the best of all worlds right now.
Movie theaters aren't going anywhere any time soon... distributors have so many different home release models at their disposal to maximize the take on each individual title that they can customize to suit their needs.

I just watched THE OUTFIT on streaming. The 4K HDR presentation was stellar on my JVC projector... the shadow details in many of the darker scenes were ridiculously good...I just upgraded my front L/R mains and better aligned my center channel's tweeter with them behind my AT screen.
This was the first movie I auditioned after calibration of the new setup...When the score of this movie swelled to ratchet up the tension, it served it's humble DD+ compressed origins a credit...
I'll buy this title on UHD when it comes out and will more than likely be able to pick out the improvements in the presentation,

but I can never take anyone who claims streaming quality is crap seriously..

If streaming quality was crap, I wouldn't bother with it. Who here would? You shouldn't take me seriously, regardless.

On a more serious note, I am glad that you, too, are enjoying your wonderful JVC projector.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

but I can never take anyone who claims streaming quality is crap seriously..

There are some who will always exaggerate, IMO the argument is streaming = to disc in audio and video quality. People* that engineer and design data rate reduction technologies (compression) will tell you the higher the data rate the better the quality. There are objective test that have been done to bear this out.

We watch a lot of streaming using a ATV4K (2021) and a Nvidia Shield Pro (2019). I do see aberrations and just do not pay much attention to them. On disc, that is another matter, remember the wax Patton, T2, etc.

*Member DRMPEG (Ron engineered the MPEG 1.5 then 2.0 for DirecTV, later did the MPEG and FireWire for JVC and the D-VHS D-Theater project). Another source of info, the folks behind X264 and x265.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Searched and hope this is not a redundant question, what mounting system are you using?

Chief VCM20. Rated up to 250 lbs.

[crutzulee]

Originally Posted by Vilya

If streaming quality was crap, I wouldn't bother with it. Who here would? You shouldn't take me seriously, regardless.

On a more serious note, I am glad that you, too, are enjoying your wonderful JVC projector.

I have a pretty impressive setup that consistently has me picking my jaw up off the floor...

Every single piece of gear I have was bought reconditioned, open boxed or second hand...

The big boys finally receiving their laser JVCs meant that I was able to score one of their older model cast-offs at a great price.

Last year, I bought a set of second hand PARADIGM monitor 9 speakers hoping to upgrade the L/R monitor 7 pair that have served as my mains for close to 30 years. In a COVID world, I got burned by not being able to audition them. The tweeters were burned.

Because I'm a bear for timbre matching in my HT, I didn't just have them replaced with something currently available. Much to my long suffering wife's chagrin, she had to maneuver around these monsters in our laundry room for the better part of a year.... until I was able to source out a same model year set of monitor 3's....While I hated tearing apart a perfectly good set of highly regarded speakers, the end results were worth it!

All 11 channels in my setup have identical tweeters to properly create the ATMOS bubble that I believe eludes so many.... and I have a couple of extra dust covers monitor 3 woofers should the units in my present system need them...

This hobby is never ending...

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

I have a pretty impressive setup that consistently has me picking my jaw up off the floor...

Every single piece of gear I have was bought reconditioned, open boxed or second hand...

The big boys finally receiving their laser JVCs meant that I was able to score one of their older model cast-offs at a great price.

Last year, I bought a set of second hand PARADIGM monitor 9 speakers hoping to upgrade the L/R monitor 7 pair that have served as my mains for close to 30 years. In a COVID world, I got burned by not being able to audition them. The tweeters were burned.

Because I'm a bear for timbre matching in my HT, I didn't just have them replaced with something currently available. Much to my long suffering wife's chagrin, she had to maneuver around these monsters in our laundry room for the better part of a year.... until I was able to source out a same model year set of monitor 3's....While I hated tearing apart a perfectly good set of highly regarded speakers, the end results were worth it!

All 11 channels in my setup have identical tweeters to properly create the ATMOS bubble that I believe eludes so many.... and I have a couple of extra dust covers monitor 3 woofers should the units in my present system need them...

This hobby is never ending...

Speakers are so worth the time, money, and effort. Great speakers offer decades of faithful service. They are one of the few things that I would be willing to buy used...provided that I could audition them first or if they at least came with a generous return policy.

My main pair of speakers are 38 years-old. This hobby, like my speakers, are indeed never ending.

[crutzulee]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

There are some who will always exaggerate, IMO the argument is streaming = to disc in audio and video quality. People* that engineer and design data rate reduction technologies (compression) will tell you the higher the data rate the better the quality. There are objective test that have been done to bear this out.

We watch a lot of streaming using a ATV4K (2021) and a Nvidia Shield Pro (2019). I do see aberrations and just do not pay much attention to them. On disc, that is another matter, remember the wax Patton, T2, etc.

*Member DRMPEG (Ron engineered the MPEG 1.5 then 2.0 for DirecTV, later did the MPEG and FireWire for JVC and the D-VHS D-Theater project). Another source of info, the folks behind X264 and x265.

I don't think anyone's seriously arguing that streaming is equal to disc. If anything, I'm finding that the exaggeration is mostly on the other side now...streaming is crap hyperbole etc...

Compression schemes have gotten significantly better in the last little bit to close the gap.

My ears are good enough to pick out a compressed soundtrack over a lossless one, but I can also tell that streamed DD+ compression is miles better than DVD era dolby digital.

While a 1080p bluray can still occassionaly beat out a streamed 4K presentation, recently mastered fare, like the 4K HDR presentation of THE OUTFIT, that I mentioned earlier are not going to be bested by 1080p disc - given a proper gigabit connection.

Back in the days of LD, you could never get me to watch a VHS tape. I'd wait on average, 3 to 6 months to watch "new" titles. To be fair, most of my objection had to do with OAR over picture quality.

I just don't feel the same need now to be patient. Streams are available before discs. I still recognize the superiority of disc, but feel that the quality of streaming has improved enough that it is increasingly making up the majority of my viewing. I can now reserve my physical purchases to those titles where replayabilty governs the decision ...

I don't usually recommend movies as tastes vary, but I'd like those of you with decent systems to consider streaming THE OUTFIT. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the A/V presentation.... plus the story is quite a cracker...

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

My main pair of speakers are 38 years-old. This hobby, like my speakers, are indeed never ending.

I have a pair of AR-3a's that I purchased 50 years ago. Was young starting out and had to do tall talking to get a bank loan's for them, a Crown DC-300, Crown IC-150 and a Heathkit AJ-1510 FM Tuner. Still have the DC-300 and 3a's, 300 used almost every day, 3a's in their original box with rotted foam on the woofers. One day may repair and put on fleabay.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

Compression schemes have gotten significantly better in the last little bit to close the gap.

I know that is repeated quite often on the internet but the reality is most content is still H.264 or H.265, both been around several years. My Sony FMP-X10 (2015) had both, my first UHD content was House of Cards via Netflix displayed on the Sony VW600 4K projector.

Streamers are using tricks like allocating more bits to the center part of the picture and less to the outer areas.

DD+, outdoes DD at low bit rates (like 192 Kbps), little difference at 384 or 448 (Roger Dressler, retired Dolby Labs). DD+ can accommodate more channels (and Atmos) than DD.

I don't usually recommend movies as tastes vary, but I'd like those of you with decent systems to consider streaming THE OUTFIT. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the A/V presentation.... plus the story is quite a cracker...

Thanks for that, have added to my list.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

I have a pair of AR-3a's that I purchased 50 years ago. Was young starting out and had to do tall talking to get a bank loan's for them, a Crown DC-300, Crown IC-150 and a Heathkit AJ-1510 FM Tuner. Still have the DC-300 and 3a's, 300 used almost every day, 3a's in their original box with rotted foam on the woofers. One day may repair and put on fleabay.

Those AR-3A's command some pretty decent prices on the used market. It might be well worth your while to fix and sell them.

[crutzulee]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

I have a pair of AR-3a's that I purchased 50 years ago. Was young starting out and had to do tall talking to get a bank loan's for them, a Crown DC-300, Crown IC-150 and a Heathkit AJ-1510 FM Tuner. Still have the DC-300 and 3a's, 300 used almost every day, 3a's in their original box with rotted foam on the woofers. One day may repair and put on fleabay.

My first car was an '89 FORD TEMPO. I was 16 and paid 16.75 % financing I made EVERY mistake one could make with that purchase LOL..

I worked for years in banking and spent most of my early career helping people dig themselves out of financial holes.

Now in semi retirement, I work with a few young guys that I'm always getting after to make wise financial decisions. Of course, I'm on them all the time about the foolishness of borrowing to finance a car purchase. I can't imagine financing a set of speakers....

[cheez avenger]

My main system is "legacy" - it's a JBL/Infinity system that's about 22 years old. I think that's reason why, as documented back aways in some posts, as to why Atmos adaptation didn't take me as long as it normally would have. I basically went from 5.1 to 5.1.2 to 5.2.2. Been gravy ever since!

I just came back from the rental shop - rented Shine a Light (Rolling Stones documentary directed by Martin Scorsese) on BD, Fritz Lang's "Western Union" BD, and The Apartment 4K disc.

*Shine a Light has two lossless tracks - Dolby TrueHD 5.1 and DTS HD-MA 5.1. It also has a 2.0,but I'm watching it in TrueHD 5.1.

[unberechenbar]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

I just watched THE OUTFIT on streaming. The 4K HDR presentation was stellar on my JVC projector... the shadow details in many of the darker scenes were ridiculously good...I just upgraded my front L/R mains and better aligned my center channel's tweeter with them behind my AT screen.
This was the first movie I auditioned after calibration of the new setup...When the score of this movie swelled to ratchet up the tension, it served it's humble DD+ compressed origins a credit...
I'll buy this title on UHD when it comes out and will more than likely be able to pick out the improvements in the presentation, but I can never take anyone who claims streaming quality is crap seriously..

I wanted it in a theater and thought it was an interesting movie. I wasn't expecting it to take place in only one location though. Unfortunately I don't think it is getting a UHD release since Universal has only announced a regular Blu-ray. But maybe they could release a UHD further down the line if they see demand for it.