Star Trek The Motion Picture Director's Edition 4K UHD/DLX (1979)

[jess1581]

Sigh, I just bought the ST:TMP on 4k too....

[mlabonte21]

Originally Posted by jess1581

Sigh, I just bought the ST:TMP on 4k too....

To be fair, Paramount was pretty upfront that they were working on this and to expect it the following year...

[jess1581]

Originally Posted by mlabonte21

To be fair, Paramount was pretty upfront that they were working on this and to expect it the following year...

Yeah, I didn't get the memo.

[DMRI2006]

Originally Posted by WorkShed

The theatrical uses tons of production audio. This is proven. They didn't have enough time to mix the ADR. The Director's Edition sounds like an actual film should.

The scene where Kirk is introduced and now there's hardly any background noise at all -- that's what an "actual film" should sound like?

[Jeyl]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

What cracks me up about the previous DE (dunno if it'd been caught for the new DE) is that there's a moment where they used the production audio and not the sound effect from the theatrical, it's when Kirk's shuttle lands at Starfleet and we get that shot of his face through the window as the door opens. In the theatrical it's the usual added 'whoosh' sound as it opens but in the old DE you literally hear the clunk/creak of the real door being swung open.

Can you verify that the sound used from the original Director's Edition was from the on-set audio? That sound is still present in the new Director's Edition. It's just a bit more drowned out by the added pressure noise.

I also checked the theatrical version again and there is no 'whoosh' sound effect. And as is customary for the theatrical version, there's actually no sound effect at all when the door opens. All you hear before Kirk disembarks is Jerry Goldsmith's score.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Jeyl

Can you verify that the sound used from the original Director's Edition was from the on-set audio? That sound is still present in the new Director's Edition. It's just a bit more drowned out by the added pressure noise.

I also checked the theatrical version again and there is no 'whoosh' sound effect. And as is customary for the theatrical version, there's actually no sound effect at all when the door opens. All you hear before Kirk disembarks is Jerry Goldsmith's score.

I may have misremembered that there was a sound effect there at all in the theatrical, fair enough, but the point is that that haggard-ass creak as the door opens is not there in the theatrical whereas it's there in the DE. And it's not an added effect, you can tell from the timbre of the sound. It's a piece of production audio that got muted for the theatrical.

[Deciazulado]

Science-fiction vérité

[KC-Technerd]

Originally Posted by quadruple D

As a former projectionist, I can totally understand that for the original theatrical release the reel length was a factor for the choice made for the overture. (Especially seeing that at the time most theaters were probably using projector changeover systems, as opposed to the more modern platter based systems.)

But it’s interesting that there are three versions of the same piece of music available. I unfortunately don’t know the history behind the different versions, but two of them seem to be the same performance, just edited for length: the approx. 2:00 minute overture used for the original theatrical release, and the approx. 2:50 minute overture used for the 2022 director’s edition. The third version of the overture “mistakenly” used for the 2001 director’s edition (which I feel is the superior one) is the approx. 3:00 minute “Ilia’s Theme” from the original soundtrack album.

(If anyone out there owns the La-La Land Records soundtrack liner notes, or has any other insight from the soundtrack producers like Matessino, I’d be curious to know if the history of the different versions is actually addressed…)

But regardless of why the choice was made to use the track “Ilia’s Theme” for the overture in 2001, I certainly feel it was the right decision. It’s just a stronger performance of the piece, and to me it is sorely missed. I truly wish they would have made the same “mistake” in 2022. One can only dream…

The liner notes from the 2012 3-CD release aren't particularly specific about this. They note that Robert Wise liked the love theme from Goldsmith's early, unused cues enough to suggest it be used as the basis for an overture. Goldsmith then asked arranger Ian Frasier to create long and short versions. It then says that "Ilia's Theme" was selected from a number of recorded variations of the love theme for the album. The one I think I actually like best is the alternate version of "Ilia's Theme" on disc 3, track 24 at 3 min 33 sec. It's slower tempo than the others and I don't think it's available anywhere else.

Edit: The 2022 2-CD liner notes say even less.

Originally Posted by quadruple D

So this link seems to be a distillation of some of the sources you guys were probably paraphrasing in your posts, which certainly answers all of my Overture vs. Ilia’s Theme questions and more:

http://blog.trekcore.com/2022/02/la-la-land-records-star-trek-motion-picture-directors-edition-soundtrack

While it’s still a slight disappointment to me, as I still prefer the stronger performance used in error originally… it’s mystery solved.

Originally Posted by Bolty

Well the full "Ilia's Love Theme" does appear on the new 2 disc CD and the OOP 3 disc CD.

Not exactly sure why they changed it unless it was a specific request by Robert Wise that they couldn't manage in 2001.

Mike Matessino has stated elsewhere that they mistakenly used "Ilia's Theme" for the overture on the 2001 DVD because they didn't discover the documentation specifying what was actually the intended long overture version until they were working on the 2012 3-CD set for La-La Land. I'm assuming this in combination with his other statements implies that they relied on the 1999 20th Anniversary CD as evidence of the correct long overture version for the 2001 DE DVD. I find it interesting that the 20th Anniversary CD does move Ilia's Theme to track 1,says it the second half of it was used as the overture, but otherwise makes no suggestion that it was intended as a long version of the overture. They changed the overture for the 2022 4K DE based on the documentation.

"Ilia's Theme" is track 5 on the original 1979 Columbia album, track 1 on the 20th Anniversary edition, disc 2 track 15 on the 2012 La-La Land release, and disc 2 track 17 on the 2022 La-La Land release. Only the track on the 2022 CD is mixed from the 2-inch 16-track analog masters. I'm not 100% certain about the 20th Anniversary CD, but all the others are sourced from Bruce Botnick's 1979 digital stereo master that was live mixed.

[KC-Technerd]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

In the theatrical it's the usual added 'whoosh' sound as it opens but in the old DE you literally hear the clunk/creak of the real door being swung open.

It's definitely a different sound than the new DE (there's none in the theatrical). The new sounds more like a depressurizing "Pshhhh," while the old sounds more like a pop-squeak.

[KC-Technerd]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I just find this "overture" thing funny because at my Dec. 7th opening day screening there wasn't an overture at all - and the projectionist screwed up the framing so the top half the screen was the bottom and vice versa for a good 5 minutes until it was corrected right around the first V'Ger bolt.

I saw TMP in the theater twice in 1979/1980. I don't remember noticing the overture until I got the RCA SelectaVision CED Videodisc a few years later. I'm thinking that the theater either omitted it or played it with the house lights up. Long enough ago that I'm not really sure either way.

[KC-Technerd]

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterLives

I'm not sure whether or not I like the new audio. Some of that dialogue is so up-front it sounds out of place and looped. I'm sure the theatrical audio is looped, too, but it the theatrical dialogue is mixed like it was happening in the the context of the scene. The new stuff sounds like it happens outside of the scene and was just pasted on top. I don't think I'm describing this well.

Originally Posted by WorkShed

The theatrical uses tons of production audio. This is proven. They didn't have enough time to mix the ADR. The Director's Edition sounds like an actual film should.

Especially with the introduction of Decker who you can barely understand. In TDE you can clearly hear what he's talking about and it's important because it directly leads into the next scene.

The one dialog change that bothers and distracts me is the dialog between Kirk and Sonak. In the theatrical version it has that echoey effect of being in a large open room. On the new DE it sounds like they're both in a different space. Perhaps a small padded room with no reverb? It almost sounds muffled. The crowd noise also seems strangely muffled or subdued. It just doesn't sound right to me. To me the theatrical sounds much more appropriate for the large space they are supposed to be in.

In most cases I'm finding the new dialog replacement a considerable improvement. For the first time ever I'm hearing "Transporter room, come in. Urgent!" instead of "Transporter room, come in. Archon!"

I'm also bothered and distracted by the music change during the "Of course! To bring the creator here, to finish transmitting the code in person. To touch the creator." scene. Replacing music written and accepted for that scene with music written and rejected for another doesn't make sense to me. I also don't think it fits with the music for the longer scene.

[JohnCarpenterLives]

Originally Posted by KC-Technerd

The one dialog change that bothers and distracts me is the dialog between Kirk and Sonak. In the theatrical version it has that echoey effect of being in a large open room. On the new DE it sounds like they're both in a different space. Perhaps a small padded room with no reverb? It almost sounds muffled. The crowd noise also seems strangely muffled or subdued. It just doesn't sound right to me. To me the theatrical sounds much more appropriate for the large space they are supposed to be in.

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. I find it VERY distracting in that video. I really hope it's not as obvious while I watch the movie.

[moreorless]

Trekkie virgin jokes, are you people trying out for The Big Bang Theory writers group or has I dropped though a time warp to 1986?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by moreorless

Trekkie virgin jokes, are you people trying out for The Big Bang Theory writers group or has I dropped though a time warp to 1986?

Someone’s autocorrect changed instances of ‘version’ to ‘virgin’ in their post and it was reet funny like

Originally Posted by KC-Technerd

It's definitely a different sound than the new DE (there's none in the theatrical). The new sounds more like a depressurizing "Pshhhh," while the old sounds more like a pop-squeak.

Yes, that’s it! There’s this pop-creak on the old DE and it sounds so incongruous vs any trek door/hatch opening I ever heard. I guess they just missed it when remixing the audio in 2001.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by KC-Technerd

The one dialog change that bothers and distracts me is the dialog between Kirk and Sonak. In the theatrical version it has that echoey effect of being in a large open room. On the new DE it sounds like they're both in a different space. Perhaps a small padded room with no reverb? It almost sounds muffled. The crowd noise also seems strangely muffled or subdued. It just doesn't sound right to me. To me the theatrical sounds much more appropriate for the large space they are supposed to be in.

Yeah, I much prefer the "Grand Central Station" lobby sound of the original mix on that one. That and the Red Alert klaxon are the big minuses for me on the new soundtrack.

In most cases I'm finding the new dialog replacement a considerable improvement. For the first time ever I'm hearing "Transporter room, come in. Urgent!" instead of "Transporter room, come in. Archon!"

Hmm, not with you on this one as far as "Archon", I could always tell he said "Urgent".

[suspiciouscoffee]

Obviously it didn’t have this association in 1979 or any time until the last five years or so but now the theatrical klaxon sounds like I’m checking out at the grocery store and the chip reader’s telling me to remove my card quickly.

[User897]

It'll be interesting if Paramount approves any further changes before the disc release, and what will actually be fixed and/or changed.

[Darthbooth1978]

What is the quality of the new shot of vger exploding at the end? Hearing mixed views regarding this shot.

[Jeyl]

I have a question. What is that 'highlight' animation that covers an area you select with the select tool in photoshop?

[Jeyl]

I watched the DE edition again and decided to pay attention to the TOS Shuttle that was added in the Starfleet Headquarters shuttle area. When I looked at the edges, I noticed something off. The edges looked like there was evidence of aliasing going on! Did they just take a low rez model of the TOS Shuttle and left it like that? So I got onto my computer to take a closer look.

It's not aliasing... It's the highlight select animation from Photoshop's select tool (Or any other image editing software that uses the same effect).



So someone highlighted the shuttle and took a screen capture of the window with the image on it and tried to crop out the lines. The establishing shot didn't have a good crop so the lines are still visible. When we cut back to the wide shot of the hanger, the highlight lines are gone, but so is the Shuttle's rear brace. It reappears suddenly the moment before the shuttle actually takes off since that's using a less cut cropped version of the shuttle.

And as an added bonus? The shuttle comes to a complete dead stop before the shot ends.