Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by gotmule

This movie should be great in Atmos with the birds attacking. I must picked up the Arrow release but am curious what you experience will be once you pop yours in.

I have the Arrow version as well and thought that was a great disc, so really looking forward to this one. This one is released in a couple of weeks but by the time I receive it - should be sometime next month. I read that some of the special features are brand new and current.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Hope no one here believes that I am advocating do what I do. I just like sharing what I do in reference to home theater, be it immersive audio, projectors, data distribution, lighting, disc play, etc.

Media servers: Started recording SD content to a HDD about 2000 or 2001 with a Hauppauge tuner card. In that same era started recording DVB-S (satellite) with a Twinhan DVB-S card. Later started using a MIT MDP-100 ATSC 1.0 tuner card for OTA. Card was neat because it had a hardware HD H.262 (MPEG-2) decoder. You could also play your DVD’s thru this card. Thru the years I have recorded and played content via sneaker net then NAS.

Way back when Rod Hewitt of TSReader suggested that I buy a Roku Labs HD1000 Media Player but I never did. Flowed several down thru the years like Popcorn Hour and others. So recently I decided to go all in with a large NAS and 2 media players.

[bhampton]

I appreciate your tinkering.
There's a lot of ways to organize a system.

It's fun to explore and audition new devices.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Hope no one here believes that I am advocating do what I do.

No, like all of us here we are just talking personal preferences and choices. You just happened to bring up something not discussed for a very long time so we are all chiming in on it from our own perspective.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Hope no one here believes that I am advocating do what I do. I just like sharing what I do in reference to home theater, be it immersive audio, projectors, data distribution, lighting, disc play, etc.

You know this Thread goes back 7 years, and we have gone through a lot of changes thinking about the viewing and distribution of our Movies and TV Shows. It seems that UHD 4K will be the last Physical Media, so different forms of accessing should be discussed. IMO it's all personal preference depending on your equipment and setup. I go with the Media Servers, but accessing the Players will be around a few more years. Also IMO Streaming Providers are an extension of Media Servers!

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by alchav21

It seems that UHD 4K will be the last Physical Media

lol I remember when DVD was going to be the last format because HD was going to be like higher quality audio, then it was BD was going to be the last one and then 3D BD and now UHD BD. If your predictive powers are that great please tell me the winning lottery numbers for

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

lol I remember when DVD was going to be the last format because HD was going to be like higher quality audio, then it was BD was going to be the last one and then 3D BD and now UHD BD. If your predictive powers are that great please tell me the winning lottery numbers for

DVD was never going to be the last format. EVERYONE knew there would be an HD format because the world was moving from SD to HD.

3D BD was an attempt to cash in on "3D Mania" which Avatar created. So how did that work out?

Only one country is adopting 8K: Japan. All others: 4K. The difference in the manufacturing costs between a BD and a UHD-BD are not drastic. It uses existing compression tech. It takes years to move from one to a brand new one like VVC and the physical media market world wide is dropping at a 18% rate per year.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that UHD-BD will be the last physical media format. The world going Digital.

Business 101: follow the money

[kfbkfb]

https://www.examiner.net/2022/04/30/...-release-dead/
^^^
I am pleased to announce that simultaneous release is dead as a serious business model...


Kirk Bayne

[Vilya]

I would be damn surprised to see an 8K physical media format come to the home video market. I'm not adverse to being pleasantly surprised, but I just don't see it happening.

I'm not even convinced that 8K streaming will ever be commonplace seeing as neither studios or streaming services are offering us anything at that resolution. Nothing is even known to be in the works. Commercial theaters even now are mostly using 2K for their exhibitions on screens far larger than what we will likely ever have at home.

To "benefit" from 8K resolution you have to sit almost uncomfortably close to very large screens. Unless 8K is offered along with some other far more revelatory improvement beyond mere resolution, I doubt that very many consumers are going to care one iota about it.

I also don't think that "easy to please" streaming customers would embrace 8K and especially not if they have to pay extra for it. I am doubtful that streaming services are eager to pay for the extra bandwidth that 8K streaming would require, either. 8K content is going to be limited to the occasional nature video on youtube for the foreseeable future.

[Wendell R. Breland]

The infamous Bill Gates quote:

For us it's not the physical format. Understand that this is the last physical format there will ever be [Blu-ray]. Everything's going to be streamed directly or on a hard disk. So, in this way, it's even unclear how much this one counts.

The studios have been more than happy to sell us the same movie numerous times as in LD, video cassette, DVD, D-Theater, Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray.

If the engineers in Japan develop a way to produce cheap synthetic diamonds for data storage then much higher bit rates and color depths would be possible. For me, it has always been this is the way it is then there is the possibility of what could be.

In 1972 I used leave time to work with a small group in Yonkers NY, mission - digital audio recording to a Ampex quad video transport. We had a custom made Burr Brown A/D, IIRC it was 12 bit companded to 14 bit. Ran out of money in 1974. It was several years later when Sony introduced the PCM-1. It used a U-Matic video cassette (¾" tape) as the storage medium.

[Lee A Stewart]

8K TV is failing to appeal to consumers, says Omdia

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1651213672

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

The studios have been more than happy to sell us the same movie numerous times as in LD, video cassette, DVD, D-Theater, Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray.

If the engineers in Japan develop a way to produce cheap synthetic diamonds for data storage then much higher bit rates and color depths would be possible. For me, it has always been this is the way it is then there is the possibility of what could be.

[Show spoiler]In 1972 I used leave time to work with a small group in Yonkers NY, mission - digital audio recording to a Ampex quad video transport. We had a custom made Burr Brown A/D, IIRC it was 12 bit companded to 14 bit. Ran out of money in 1974. It was several years later when Sony introduced the PCM-1. It used a U-Matic video cassette (¾" tape) as the storage medium.

We have pretty much mastered convenient ways to store large amounts of data already, but we are at a point where just increasing resolution is not enough. We have reached a point where diminishing returns have made increasing resolution rather anti-climactic. 8K lacks the "wow" factor that going from 480p to 1080p gave us or even that of going from 1080p to 2160p. 4320p by itself is kinda unless something else far more exciting is offered along with it

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

We have pretty much mastered convenient ways to store large amounts of data already, but we are at a point where just increasing resolution is not enough.

That is were marketing comes in, as in Dolby Vision, HDR, etc. 8 bit to 10 bit video is quite an increase in levels (256 to 1024*) but without marketing hype it would not mean much to most. No telling what the next big thing will be but I would believe there are several on the drawing boards.

*video does not use this entire range, 8 bit - black is 16 and white is 235. Don't remember 10 bit, will look to see if my SMPTE standards them.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

That is were marketing comes in, as in Dolby Vision, HDR, etc. 8 bit to 10 bit video is quite an increase in levels (256 to 1024*) but without marketing hype it would not mean much to most. No telling what the next big thing will be but I would believe there are several on the drawing boards.

*video does not use this entire range, 8 bit - black is 16 and white is 235. Don't remember 10 bit, will look to see if my SMPTE standards them.

The benefits of HDR, 10 bit video, wide color gamut, and Dolby Vision are all things that a person can appreciate by simply viewing something that makes use of them. A person doesn't need to know the terms to appreciate the results.

There has to be a compelling improvement that a consumer can see, and therefore desire, for the marketing to succeed otherwise "marketing" has another word added to it: hype. The hype has to be believed or it will fail.

I am uncertain that even 8K video with 12 bit color combined would be enough to sell people on it, but I know that if they brought back 3D blu-ray support that this sucker would fall for it.

I know that won't happen as display manufacturers are obsessed with offering more and more nits, which 3D support works against. Lack of consumer interest in 3D home video doesn't help, either, but a guy can dream.

[unberechenbar]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I know that won't happen as display manufacturers are obsessed with offering more and more nits, which 3D support works against. Lack of consumer interest in 3D home video doesn't help, either, but a guy can dream.

How does 3D work against more nits?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by unberechenbar

How does 3D work against more nits?

On 3D TVs that used passive 3D technology there is a filter on the screen that is used to create the 3D effect and that filter dims the screen compared to TVs without it. Passive 3D was in many ways more popular and more affordable than the alternative.

I don't think that 3D TVs that used active shutter eye glasses have this problem as they do not need that filter, but 3D TVs that used active shutter eye glasses introduced their own set of issues like greater problems with crosstalk. Plus, the active shutter eye glasses were clunky, heavy, expensive, and they required regular recharging.

These two incompatible 3D systems did nothing to help the popularity of 3D home video, either. These two competing systems created a lot of confusion and frustration.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by kfbkfb

https://www.examiner.net/2022/04/30/...-release-dead/
^^^
I am pleased to announce that simultaneous release is dead as a serious business model...


Kirk Bayne

Good.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Good.

I won't miss it. I never used it.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by unberechenbar

How does 3D work against more nits?

You lose approx. 40% of the light produced wearing polarized 3D glasses

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

You lose approx. 40% of the light produced wearing polarized 3D glasses

It doesn't seem like that much in practice, but, yeah, the polarized passive 3D glasses have a dimming effect, too. The difference is that unlike that filter on the passive 3D TV screen, you can take the glasses off when watching 2D content, but the filter always remains.

"Passive 3D TVs have a special filter on the screen that works with the polarized lenses in the glasses to block out either the even or odd lines on a 3D content. One eye only sees the odd lines and the other eye only sees the even line of the picture to produce a viewable 3D image."

https://www.sony.com/electronics/sup...icles/00011139

All 3D glasses block half of the light.

3D TVs
Active 3D vs Passive 3D:

"When you put on the glasses, you will notice the brightness of the screen has been reduced by about half. With both methods (active and passive), only half the light gets to the eye. With an active 3D TV, the lenses of the glasses are black half of the time. With a passive 3D TV, one line out of two is black. To compensate, most TVs will automatically increase the brightness when displaying 3D content."

https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/3d-t...ft%20for%20odd).

"Another problem with 3D TV is that 3D images are much dimmer than 2D images. As a result, TV makers made the big mistake of not incorporating increased light output technologies into 3D TVs to compensate.

However, what is ironic, is that with the introduction of HDR technology in 2015, TVs began to be made with increased light output capability. This would have benefited the 3D viewing experience, but in a counter-intuitive move, TV makers decided to dump the 3D viewing option..."

https://www.lifewire.com/why-3d-tv-died-4126776

There were so many missed opportunities with 3D home video. Incompatible competing systems that sowed confusion, susceptibility to headaches for many people, and failure to incorporate the increased light output described above. Thankfully, 3D is still supported by most projectors (requiring active shutter glasses), but having to import almost all newer 3D blu-rays is a nuisance and an extra expense that often necessitates owning a region free blu-ray player.