Archived: Insiders Thread

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Phloyd,
All I can tell you is that I was told the HD DVD version has “stops” whereas the Blu-ray version does not and thus the Blu-ray version fits the strict criteria for a seamless branching feature…………. or as people in the studio business understand the term.

Keep in mind, I was speaking to someone at WB who is a tad higher than a V.P. and I’m sure that he was simply rattling off what some techno people told him. However, he’s always been a credible source of information in the past.

In fact, not just credible, I would say that he has been spot-on in the past.
I just can’t offer you anymore, it’s not like I’m going to call him up to elaborate on the details of one particular blu-ray title. Our conversations are more in regards to the budgets of major theatrical presentations.

FYI,

Amir does not know how these features work either.

DVD, HD-DVD, and Blu-ray all skip sectors for angles they are not decoding, Pretty fundamental if you know the specs. Goes to demonstrate the speaking authoritatively, does not mean speaking accurately or truthfully....




From Amir on the AVS insiders thread:

There really is no magic here. VC-1 and Toshiba tools have supported them for some time. What you have to do is to make sure the splice point between alternate versions does not violate the peak bandwidth. There are many solutions to this with the simplest being picking the right splice point. There are other solutions which I prefer to not discuss in public. But you can search for my comments in the past for some clues .

I suspect people confuse multi-story seamless branching with multi-angle. The former is what I described above and is the most common. Multi-angle is more challenging since you need to have multiple versions of the movie running concurrently. But just because a system can do this, it doesn't mean you want to do it. After all, dual angle halves your bandwidth and triple forces you to use one third. Yes, BD has more bandwidth but by cutting it in half, you now have less bandwidth than equiv. encode without it in HD DVD. Given the fact that you don't watch both versions of the movie at once, and paucity of demand for this feature, I am not sure it matters one way or the other.

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

I am a HUGE fan of Luc Besson's The Big Blue!

The DVD release was not sourced from the best master. In fact, it was taken from a USED film reel. You can even see the reel markers.

Hopefully they can find a good master of this one. I doubt they would spend the money on a full restoration for this title.

Rob,

FWIW, I'm also a fan of his work. Great stories, cinematography and the scores never disappoint...

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by Ascended_Saiyan

To paidgeek, Penton-Man, kjack, Any Insiders:

I was wondering about Spielberg's ability to keep his titles from being released. How far does it go? Does Spielberg have the right to have his titles distributed by any studio he chooses? Does he have the right to make a studio release his titles on both formats? How does that work...being a director that owns the titles he/she directs?

His "ability" strictly speaking depends on contractual agreements, but his influence is what's most important.

The movie business seems to me to be a very big small business. By that I mean that memories are long, people talk, and people move around. It does not pay to irritate a film maker, much less one of the most successful film makers in history.

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by darkedgex

On a similar vein, any insiders have info on the possibility of score-only tracks on future BD releases? Movies like Star Wars and The Lord of the Rings would seem like ideal candidates for this (especially the latter, The Lord of the Rings has had 2 of its 3 soundtracks released as 4 disc sets, with the 4th disc being a DVD-Audio disc containing 48/24 MLP audio; so this easily verifies that at least the audio elements for newer (at least major) studio releases are available as 48/24 or possibly higher.

This is also where dropping PCM for Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD MA would seem to bring benefits (multiple lossless tracks being a fairly expensive bitrate item).

This has been looked into by our studio, but it brings all sorts of complications you would not expect. The score is not usually owned by the movie studio, so special contractual arrangements have to be made to do this. For the potential audience, it just does not make sense. It would actually be easier for us to buy and bundle a disc with the score on it.

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by phloyd

Further on the Speares comment - you can see it here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=142

It is an off the cuff comment in an unrelated thread.

And it is dated almost a month ago.

So all the other reports (I believe) are since his comment.

So ... he could have mis-spoken?

I can't wait to see what the real answer is..!

It will be priceless if Stacey is incorrect. Amir will look like an ass!

... again!

The disc(s) will tell the story...

[Rob Tomlin]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

FYI,

Amir does not know how these features work either.

Say what!?!?!?

Originally Posted by paidgeek

Rob,

FWIW, I'm also a fan of his work. Great stories, cinematography and the scores never disappoint...

You nailed it! The remastered Fifth Element is just fantastic, and has breathed new life into that title for me. I've already watched it 3 times since I got it!

Looking forward to other titles from Besson as well, including Leon, The Big Blue, and La Femme Nikita.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

This is best exemplified by what paidgeek has implemented by input from the internet….

-A sparkling-new, reference-level transfer of The Fifth Element PLUS a free exchange program for owners of the previous version.
-Vastly improved PQ across the board on SPE discs. Almost every release is now reference-level. Take a look at smaller titles like Identity, Revenge, Donnie Brasco, Hellboy, Seven Years in Tibet or Arlington Road for evidence. You won't believe how great they are.
-A move to seemless branching for multiple cuts of the same movie (Spider-man 2, Close Encounters, more to follow).
-A move to higher bit-depth audio on SPE Blu-rays.
-No Dialog Normalization on Sony's DTHD tracks.
-Fewer & less sticky stickers on the cases.
-DVD upscaling & forced 24p mode for the PS3.

^
copyright to hollywoodguy for the above.

That is a heck of a list.

In fact, I'd dare say it represents the most consumer responsiveness ever shown for improving any format.

Gary

[crackinhedz]

-DVD upscaling & forced 24p mode for the PS3.



I never quite understood why Sony made this a default setting, when the market for 1080p/24Hz is so small, majority of HDTV's do not support this feature...

you can only guess how many posts over on the Playstation forums started out...

"I put in a bluray and get no picture"


They should have left it "off" by default.

[MrBogey]

-Fewer & less sticky stickers on the cases.

I could kiss ya for that Paid. Most thieves just slice the edge, smack the box and slide the disc out. Putting the glue on all three edges just frustrates consumers and makes it hard to open the box without damaging it.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

FYI,

Amir does not know how these features work either.

LOL,
Hey don’t tell me, I realize that Amir doesn’t know how alot of things work.

But apparently, the new studio expert (Surrogate Insider) is Dave Vaughn….. the movie reviewer.

Talk to him about it. He seems to have new found connections at the highest levels of Paramount and by implication, the encoding level at WB.

What’s next ?
Insider connections at Uni, Disney, Fox and ………….Sony ?
Or just a more rapid cellular connection to Amir.

[hoser]

Originally Posted by NutsAboutPS3

2. I think it would be nice to have a place on the website where people can vote for which movies they would like to see on Blu-ray. It would need some sort of protection against malicious voting, or people voting multiple times - perhaps each Sony Blu-ray disc could come with a unique code inside the packaging that entitles the buyer to one vote on the website. The more movies you buy, the more say you have in what gets released in the future, seems fair to me

That sounds like a great idea.
By doing that, it seems to me, Sony could work on the encodes of those films that have greatest interest (i.e., greatest potential sales revenue) first and this could maximize the most $ in these early stages of BD.

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by MrBogey

I could kiss ya for that Paid. Most thieves just slice the edge, smack the box and slide the disc out. Putting the glue on all three edges just frustrates consumers and makes it hard to open the box without damaging it.

It's great that people are keeping track of our exchanges and improvements, but I cannot take all the credit for these things. I have had a chance to move things along that were in progress or start an idea, but rest assured it is a large team over hear that actually figures out how to get things done. While I appreciate your comments, I respectfully as that you direct them to Sony Pictures in general. They are where the rubber meets the road.

Thanks.

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by hoser

That sounds like a great idea.
By doing that, it seems to me, Sony could work on the encodes of those films that have greatest interest (i.e., greatest potential sales revenue) first and this could maximize the most $ in these early stages of BD.

This idea can help bring forward titles we have not given enough consideration to. Why not keep a running -- vote for one choice -- poll with visible members.

This might easily lead to a few releases that were not immeidately planned. Especially if the transfers are solid.

[WickyWoo]

It's great that people are keeping track of our exchanges and improvements, but I cannot take all the credit for these things. I have had a chance to move things along that were in progress or start an idea, but rest assured it is a large team over hear that actually figures out how to get things done. While I appreciate your comments, I respectfully as that you direct them to Sony Pictures in general. They are where the rubber meets the road.

Definately. As Peter Staddon proved 10 years ago, collaboration between all parts including enthusiasts tends to produce the best overall product, but no part is insignifigant

[Rob Tomlin]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

In other contexts, yes I would say that some studios, most vividly, SPE definitely cares what the desires are of early adopters in regards to Blu-ray.

This is best exemplified by what paidgeek has implemented by input from the internet….

-A sparkling-new, reference-level transfer of The Fifth Element PLUS a free exchange program for owners of the previous version.
-Vastly improved PQ across the board on SPE discs. Almost every release is now reference-level. Take a look at smaller titles like Identity, Revenge, Donnie Brasco, Hellboy, Seven Years in Tibet or Arlington Road for evidence. You won't believe how great they are.
-A move to seemless branching for multiple cuts of the same movie (Spider-man 2, Close Encounters, more to follow).
-A move to higher bit-depth audio on SPE Blu-rays.
-No Dialog Normalization on Sony's DTHD tracks.
-Fewer & less sticky stickers on the cases.
-DVD upscaling & forced 24p mode for the PS3.

^
copyright to hollywoodguy for the above.

You know, I have been meaning to give big props for Hellboy and Seven Years in Tibet. Those titles are absolutely breathtaking in terms of picture quality! And of course Hellboy has sound quality that rates right with the best. I love the fact that SPE is continuing to provide lossless sound!

I think it is fantastic to see a Studio respond like this. Thanks to all at SPE!

Looking forward to watching some of the other titles on the list above, including Identity, Arlington Road etc.

[phloyd]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Phloyd,
All I can tell you is that I was told the HD DVD version has “stops” whereas the Blu-ray version does not and thus the Blu-ray version fits the strict criteria for a seamless branching feature………….

Yeah - when I looked into it more I see that Stacey's post is a month old and he may be misinformed.

The information from you, geek and my other source are all recent and say the same thing - branching on the HD DVD is not seamless.

In any case, the truth will out.

Cheers!

PS. Thanks also to 'geek for referencing this topic.

I am looking forward to the disc - this might be one for the 'technical coolness' factor.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Originally Posted by Dotpattern

I started thinking more about this after I posted and, wow, there are a lot of titles with alternate soundtracks or instances where a lot of recorded music wasn't used.

Alien - most of Jerry Goldsmith's score was replaced by other sources.
2001 - as mentioned above. Alfred Newman's score was replaced.
Legend - Goldsmith's score replaced by Tangerine Dream.
The 13th Warrior - Goldsmith replaced Graeme Revell
Pirates of the Carribean - Klaus Badelt replaced Alan Silvestri.
Aliens - much of the music heard in the movie is from only a few cues repeated several times. There is much unused music on the CD.
The Empire Strikes Back - about 30 minutes of music on the CD is not used in the movie (for the better IMO but it's interesting nonetheless).

And even though they're with other studios, for future reference it might be interesting to note that Howard Shore's score for King Kong was replaced with one by James Newton Howard. Mission: Impossible - Alan Silvestri was replaced by Danny Elfman. Timeline - Goldsmith was replaced by Brian Tyler (again, for the better, but Goldsmith's music is so completely different it would be interesting to hear how it effects the overall tone of the movie).

Hmmmm. I wonder if that would be possible with Blu-Ray where the movie owner could make their own movie score with the music provided. That would be cool.

[Azumi]

hello Penton,

According to the italian magazine AV Digitale (link to the story), Ridley Scott is demanding that his films are to be published in Blu-ray.

The story essentially says that the italian company Medusa (previously HD DVD exclusive) will be publishing Kingdom of Heaven exclusively in BD at Ridley Scott's request.

Is there any truth in this?

Both Blade Runner and Black Rain are neutral titles, so the question is if a final cut gives a director the freedom to demand studios that his films are to be published in his preferred format

And the 64,000 $ question (which I don't have, so don't ask for them ) is if there are other directors and creative people who have chosen Blu-ray...

[David Forbes]

Dave Vaughn just posted this twice over at AVS:

Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn

OK…I’ve heard back from a couple of sources, and also was able to hear from a new one as well. Here is where we are:

Sony’s yields have improved “a bit” this summer and are up to around 50% depending on how much data is on the disc. The more data, the lower the yields, the lower the data, the higher the yield number goes, but 50% is just about max right now (give or take a percentage point or two).

As for independent replicators, there are four “major’s” that are capable of doing BD50’s according to my sources. They are Cinram, Deluxe, Panasonic, & Infodisc. Of these four, one of them (unnamed by the request of my source at that company) is getting yields on BD50’s up there with Sony in the 50% range. The other three can’t get above 10%, but Sony is lending a hand to them to increase their yields. I am assuming they will get things in line based upon the one independent that I referenced above who has been able to increase yields.

An interesting side note to this though is the yields on BD25’s, that are much lower than I thought they would be. Right now, the are hovering in the 60-70% range and are in the same scenario as the BD50’s when it comes to the amount of data on the disc. The lower the amount of data, the higher the yields are. At this point in the game, I would have expected the single layer discs to be much higher than they currently are.

Another thing that should be noted is that Paramount/Dreamworks was using one of the three replicators that couldn’t get the yields up above 10% on BD50’s. Could this have been one of the things that precipitated their move to HD DVD?

So, where does it leave us? For the most part, nothing has changed from what I reported last week, other than there is one major replicator of BD50 discs that have improved yields, but the other three majors can’t get them to work as of yet. These other companies are sending the work to either Sony or the other independent to do their BD50 work, which I’m sure raises their costs (outsourcing while their equipment sits idle…never a good thing in manufacturing). The good news is that the BDA is able to keep up with demand at this time, even with the lower yields and less manufacturing capacity, mainly due to the fact that sales are pretty pathetic on both formats compared to DVD. But with player adoption growing, disc sales growing, and the holiday buying season just around the corner, yield rates could become a much bigger issue the next 6 months.

Now, on to HD DVD: As Amir has stated before, there are literally hundreds of HD DVD production lines that are available in the marketplace. Since it is essentially the same process to make a HD DVD vs. a DVD, the manufacturing process is much easier to implement and yields are a lot higher. Jeff stated some numbers earlier that HD15’s and HD30’s are above 95%, and I can confirm those numbers as well from a couple of well-placed sources. But, I’ve hit a stone wall when it comes to the combo discs, which no one can seem to get the yield numbers on these. My assumption is that they aren’t as high as the HD30 and HD15 numbers since there is the extra process that needs to take place (which Amir has spoken about). Could this be one of the reason’s why “Combos” have been limited to “new releases” only and not on catalog titles? Or, was it that the studio’s (Universal especially) didn’t see the need to use combo’s anymore on the catalog titles because it wasn’t helping sales?

Comparing the two camps on this, HD DVD is in a much better position (from a manufacturing perspective). First, due to the disc thickness, the drying time of the disc making process is 50% shorter. When you throw in that the yields are about twice as high, that means you essentially have a 4-1 advantage in actually making the discs in favor of HD DVD. Again, right now that isn’t a big deal since there aren’t that many discs being pressed, but with wide adoption of both formats, HD DVD will have a manufacturing edge unless yields increase for BD50’s. Even if they can get the yields up to above 95%, they still take longer to make than an HD DVD, so in order to output the same amount of discs they will need to work twice as long or spend extra money on another fabrication line, which just adds to the overall cost.

Is this truly an issue? Maybe I'm just falling for FUD, but this just doesn't seem to go away, and the fact that we can't get any independent verification of yields doesn't help matters.

I'm posting this here because I simply don't want to deal with the circus over yonder....

[WickyWoo]

David Vaughn has simply been assigned to be Amir's proxy under the new rules.