New 4K blu ray players

[Paianni]

Originally Posted by Naiera

The UB450 and UB420 are not the same player. The former does not do HDR to SDR conversion, for example. The European model typically goes under the name UB424, where our UB820 is the UB824.

It seems to be country specific, but here in the UK the model numbers always ended with a '0'. Most distributors who have stock of the UB420 or UB424 seem to be advertising it at a substantial mark-up, so I suspect it's not a model that's being prioritised for supply in Europe atm.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Paianni

It seems to be country specific, but here in the UK the model numbers always ended with a '0'. Most distributors who have stock of the UB420 or UB424 seem to be advertising it at a substantial mark-up, so I suspect it's not a model that's being prioritised for supply in Europe atm.

His point stands though, the UB420 was sold in the UK as the UB420 and is no different to the US spec player, possible localised differences re: PAL/NTSC compatibility aside. I know because I owned a UK one three years ago and yes, it basically is the same processor as the 820 (and indeed the 9000!) minus Dobly and a few other extra features that have been turned off in the firmware.

The 450 and the 420 are entirely different machines, with different chips even, they've simply phased out the latter for the UK market while the former is now their main 'step down' UHD player. Why they're only just now pushing the 420 on the US market rather than going with the 450 is unclear.

[aviosis]

I think the only DVDs I cycle through nowadays are the old Futurama seasons that never made it on BD

[Paianni]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The 450 and the 420 are entirely different machines

I know, I think there's been some misunderstanding. The DP-UB420/4 was widely sold in Europe until the UB450 became available.

[fredman]

Originally Posted by yoshinobu

Well it's interesting how some people here still rock some rather old plasma tvs, projectors etc, so they buy 4K releases only to play the 1080p discs or 4K HDRs through SDR conversion on a fancy player connected to that outdated display, but the thing that really bothers them is non-optimal playback of even more ancient format that is dvd. Manufacturers probably figured out, that actually most of their 4K customers don't buy them to watch dvds.

People (esp. here, an enthusiast site) upgrade in stages as it's convenient or affordable. It would be nice to blow a bundle and upgrade your player, display, and audio all at once, but for most it's just impractical. Many have been collecting for years and as such, still have a significant amount of older (DVD, LD) formats. It's nice to know that when you are able to upgrade the whole chain, you'll receive benefits for your older discs as well. I know I was pleasantly surprised when I found out my UHD player/display improved DVD playback as well - still so many older TV and movies have not made the upgrade to even BD much less UHD.

[CatBus]

Originally Posted by yoshinobu

Well I thought enthusiasts are more eager to update their equipment. I understand that you might not rush onto new thing the moment it gets released, but 4K is around for years now, and yet people here still complain about DVD playback, a format that even they actually admit is very rarely being played.
Cut your loses and move on - I wouldn't eg keep VHS deck for some odd 2-3-4 tapes, just as I wouldn't bother complaining about DVD playback - a format I watch maybe once every 3 years.

For a lot of people, the title has priority over the quality. In other words, you decide WHAT you want to watch first, and THEN you watch it in the best possible quality -- which is sometimes DVD, even today for many titles. Certainly some people go about it the opposite way -- they see what's available in 4K, then choose from one of those titles.

Yes, I even still have a functional VCR. Haven't used it in years (it's a rare title that hasn't even been released on DVD), but it's there if I need it. The last DVD I watched, though, was only three days ago. I'd have watched it on Blu-ray if such a thing existed.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by yoshinobu

Well it's interesting how some people here still rock some rather old plasma tvs, projectors etc, so they buy 4K releases only to play the 1080p discs or 4K HDRs through SDR conversion on a fancy player connected to that outdated display, but the thing that really bothers them is non-optimal playback of even more ancient format that is dvd. Manufacturers probably figured out, that actually most of their 4K customers don't buy them to watch dvds.

And then they unfairly slog on one manufacturer because it’s DVD deinterlacing is less than optimal. Quality deinterlacing was relevant 20 years ago.

If deinterlacing is such an important feature for some then seek out a quality legacy player that did it well. Ever since I transitioned to Blu-ray deinterlacing hasn’t been relevant for me. DVD was a stopgap format that for some reason has survived nearly a decade past its sell-by date.

Also these same people that are upset about Panny’s deinterlacing could go out and pay the markup on the now defunct Oppo Universal players but instead of being upset with Oppo because it’s against their personal religion to say anything negative about Oppo they direct their anger at Panasonic even though there are other options like Sony that may do a better job at that specific task. And they cry about having multiple players. You can get some pretty compact players today that don’t take up a lot of space that might have better deinterlacing capabilities and then still add a Panasonic to the rack for your 4K needs. But nope they just want to think they are going to pressure Panasonic to update the players for better deinterlacing features… it probably would require a hardware change and at this point with the disc market declining it’s not going to happen.

If people want to still buy DVD and playback their old disc that’s fine but don’t expect a manufacturer to concentrate on delivering anymore than no-frills backwards compatibility.

[ronand]

Its not just DVD playback that most 4k players are not good at - some European blu rays are interlaced too (mostly UK) and the same issues arise although not as visible due to the better resolution. Believe it or not DVDs are not a legacy format in bricks and mortar stores - they are the predominant format. At the price most 4K players retail at its not unreasonable to expect that they can play current formats correctly.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by ronand

Its not just DVD playback that most 4k players are not good at - some European blu rays are interlaced too (mostly UK) and the same issues arise although not as visible due to the better resolution. Believe it or not DVDs are not a legacy format in bricks and mortar stores - they are the predominant format. At the price most 4K players retail at its not unreasonable to expect that they can play current formats correctly.

Get a Sony then. Panasonic doesn’t care about DVD playback on their UHD players. It’s the chipset’s fault which is superior for UHD playback. IOW I don’t want them sacrificing UHD playback for DVD. If it’s that important seek out a player or a used DVD player that had great deinterlacing. BD here in the states is 99.9% 1080p. Only a few early titles I’m aware of that came from 1080i masters. Really you should be asking content providers why they are delivering any content in interlaced still. No modern display uses interlaced fields any longer.

Some of us don’t care. I haven’t spun a DVD regularly for 15 years.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by CatBus

For a lot of people, the title has priority over the quality. In other words, you decide WHAT you want to watch first, and THEN you watch it in the best possible quality -- which is sometimes DVD, even today for many titles. Certainly some people go about it the opposite way -- they see what's available in 4K, then choose from one of those titles.

Yes, I even still have a functional VCR. Haven't used it in years (it's a rare title that hasn't even been released on DVD), but it's there if I need it. The last DVD I watched, though, was only three days ago. I'd have watched it on Blu-ray if such a thing existed.

Expecting DVD playback to be the best possible 1st and foremost on a modern UHD disc player is the equivalent of asking a modern PC to be able to deliver a 1990s PC game in the best possible quality. The chipsets on modern PCs are NOT even applicable to what was common in the 90s. Most everything will have to be done with emulation which is hit and miss on the quality of the emulator.

[ronand]

The stupid thing is that the Panasonics can do a reasonable job of deinterlacing - its just that content is being identified incorrectly. And f**k me if I'm going to use a Sony player - I have got rid of most of that junk from my system. I don't watch DVDs a lot but a lot of TV series never got released on better formats. That's fine if you don't care about older formats but a lot of us do - most of us want to watch something in the best AVAILABLE format, but sometimes that is DVD.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by ronand

The stupid thing is that the Panasonics can do a reasonable job of deinterlacing - its just that content is being identified incorrectly. And f**k me if I'm going to use a Sony player - I have got rid of most of that junk from my system. I don't watch DVDs a lot but a lot of TV series never got released on better formats. That's fine if you don't care about older formats but a lot of us do - most of us want to watch something in the best AVAILABLE format, but sometimes that is DVD.

Is it being identified incorrectly or is it flagged on the disc incorrectly? That has happened a lot and players that were good at deinterlacing back when it was a necessity would rely on some interpretation of the cadence to do it properly.

Again if you’re really can’t stand Panasonic’s ability then there are other options. Expecting Panasonic to fix it at this point is highly unlikely to occur.

[CatBus]

Originally Posted by ronand

That's fine if you don't care about older formats but a lot of us do - most of us want to watch something in the best AVAILABLE format, but sometimes that is DVD.

The last several posts in a nutshell. For some of us, DVD is the best possible way to watch a lot of things today, so it's still relevant. For others, the things available only on DVD are irrelevant anachronisms not worth anyone's time because they're available only on DVD. That's it. That's the whole discussion.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Tok

And then they unfairly slog on one manufacturer because it’s DVD deinterlacing is less than optimal. Quality deinterlacing was relevant 20 years ago.

If deinterlacing is such an important feature for some then seek out a quality legacy player that did it well. Ever since I transitioned to Blu-ray deinterlacing hasn’t been relevant for me. DVD was a stopgap format that for some reason has survived nearly a decade past its sell-by date.

Also these same people that are upset about Panny’s deinterlacing could go out and pay the markup on the now defunct Oppo Universal players but instead of being upset with Oppo because it’s against their personal religion to say anything negative about Oppo they direct their anger at Panasonic even though there are other options like Sony that may do a better job at that specific task. And they cry about having multiple players. You can get some pretty compact players today that don’t take up a lot of space that might have better deinterlacing capabilities and then still add a Panasonic to the rack for your 4K needs. But nope they just want to think they are going to pressure Panasonic to update the players for better deinterlacing features… it probably would require a hardware change and at this point with the disc market declining it’s not going to happen.

If people want to still buy DVD and playback their old disc that’s fine but don’t expect a manufacturer to concentrate on delivering anymore than no-frills backwards compatibility.

What a load of cock

[Tok]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

What a load of cock

Fact is Panasonic isn’t going to fix it for a small group of people that want it. 99% of owners didn’t even know this was an issue with DVD playback until it was highlighted here. Few DVDs in my collection at this point and I have other more capable players in my arsenal if I have to play one back.

[Geoff D]

But who here is under the illusion they were going to fix it? Doesn’t mean we can’t still moan about it, that’s what the internet is there for!

[Tok]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But who here is under the illusion they were going to fix it? Doesn’t mean we can’t still moan about it, that’s what the internet is there for!

Seems to me a lot of wasted energy crying about something that the company is never going to address. Other options available and workarounds but instead of just doing that all I hear is ‘I won’t, I shan’t, never! I can’t have another spinner in my component stack’. It’s GD comical. The way I see it is as saving wear on a premium 4K player for actual 4K playback. I have a separate BD player for 3D and 2D Blu, a Panny BDT110, and a separate DVD changer, a Panny F87. I don’t have to worry about unnecessary wear on my 820 or 9000 player.

[Geoff D]

I’ve got an OPPO 203, Sony X800, Panny 820 and a multi region BDT310, plus a PS3 literally gathering dust so I’m not short for playback options and clearly don’t mind having multiple machines. I still think Panny’s attitude towards DVD is disgraceful.

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by Tok

Expecting DVD playback to be the best possible 1st and foremost on a modern UHD disc player is the equivalent of asking a modern PC to be able to deliver a 1990s PC game in the best possible quality.

No, it's not, at all. The existence of the Oppo UHD players (and the sorta-clones from Cambridge) is proof that you're very wrong.

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I’ve got an OPPO 203, Sony X800, Panny 820 and a multi region BDT310, plus a PS3 literally gathering dust so I’m not short for playback options and clearly don’t mind having multiple machines. I still think Panny’s attitude towards DVD is disgraceful.

There's no excuse for a $1000 player not doing DVDs as good as Oppo.