Sony's New 2022-23 Native 4K HDR Projectors

[Robert Zohn]

Major Announcement: Sony's new Native 4K Laser Projector line-up! Check out this 8 minute YouTube Video to learn about all of the new features and specifications.

*NEW* 2022 Sony 4K Laser Projectors! VPL-XW5000ES, VPL-XW6000ES, VPL-XW7000ES - YouTube

Here's the .pdf spec sheet for Sony's 2022-23 4K Laser Projectors, VPL-XW7000ES, VPL-XW6000ES, and the VPL-XW5000ES.

https://valueelectronics.com/wp-cont...ochure-PDF.pdf

[samlop10]

These look very promising. I’m hoping to have my own place in the next few years. This definitely bodes well for a dedicated HT room.

[HDTV1080P]

Still only HDR10, no HDR10+ or Dolby Vision HDR from Sony 4K projectors. Hopefully in years to come Sony might offer all the HDR formats from one projector.

[HeavyHitter]

These look nice, but it's too bad Sony is not using true frame-by-frame dynamic tone mapping. We also need to see if the engine block deterioration is a thing of the past or not.

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

These look nice, but it's too bad Sony is not using true frame-by-frame dynamic tone mapping. We also need to see if the engine block deterioration is a thing of the past or not.

Also wondering whether the deterioration has been fixed.

Is it confirmed it’s not doing frame-by-frame dynamic tone mapping?

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

These look nice, but it's too bad Sony is not using true frame-by-frame dynamic tone mapping. We also need to see if the engine block deterioration is a thing of the past or not.

Have you experienced the SXRD degradation?

I've had the VW50, VW60, HW30, HW45, VW285 .... and it's never been an issue for me.

Optical block failure was very common in SXRD RPTV. Sadly I did have experience with that. I convinced my step dad to purchase a RPTV but he would never accept something was wrong with it. Everyone could see it was broken but he kept it another decade. He's pretty happy now with a Samsung LCD.

[roar]

Thanks for sharing Robert, I betcha they are all going to look really great. Some great info in your video and appreciate you sharing it here.

I'm pretty surprised a $6K projector doesn't have motorized zoom and focus on it, I tend to drift away from staying current with projectors and their features when I'm not in the market for a new one but it's got be close to 15 years since I've had manual zoom and focus control and that was on a truly entry level Panasonic PT AX100U.

A lot cheaper Sony projectors have had it in the past if memory recalls, does this strike you as odd that they'd exclude it on this model or has Sony (Or other manufactures?) been excluding that on other models recently and I'm just out of touch?

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by samlop10

Also wondering whether the deterioration has been fixed.

Is it confirmed it’s not doing frame-by-frame dynamic tone mapping?

It's not doing true DTM (even admitted by a Sony rep) although the marketing material might deceive one into thinking so.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Have you experienced the SXRD degradation?

I've had the VW50, VW60, HW30, HW45, VW285 .... and it's never been an issue for me.

Optical block failure was very common in SXRD RPTV. Sadly I did have experience with that. I convinced my step dad to purchase a RPTV but he would never accept something was wrong with it. Everyone could see it was broken but he kept it another decade. He's pretty happy now with a Samsung LCD.

I've talked to several well known calibrators and Kris Deering has reported this: the units deteriorate over time. When properly measured before and after over time (for recals, etc.), the contrast ratio, panel uniformity, and gamut shrunk. However, some won't notice it, but some do. Another calibrator mentioned seeing in theater SXRD as well. Sony will no longer be making theater projectors.

I experienced it on my Sony SXRD 60" RPTV (A3000). And I noticed it quite a bit.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

I've talked to several well known calibrators and Kris Deering has reported this: the units deteriorate over time. When properly measured before and after over time (for recals, etc.), the contrast ratio, panel uniformity, and gamut shrunk. However, some won't notice it, but some do. Another calibrator mentioned seeing in theater SXRD as well. Sony will no longer be making theater projectors.

I experienced it on my Sony SXRD 60" RPTV (A3000). And I noticed it quite a bit.

I had a Sony HW30ES that was exhibiting signs of SXRD degradation after several years of use. Black floor was skewing more blue-ish gray and the uniformity had noticeably deteriorated most notable on B&W films.

Sony lost a class action lawsuit regarding their rear projection TVs based on SXRD but denied ever having a problem with SXRD front projection units which has ultimately put Sony in between a rock and a hard place regarding FP SXRD. If they never have formally admitted a problem but everytime they release a new cycle of these they try to drop hints the issue was corrected. They can’t have it both ways. Supposedly this was fixed with their last few lines of 4K projectors only to see that the degradation is still occurring when checked at tuneup calibrations. Now they claimed they redesigned the SXRD again but what exactly they redesigned is vague… it’s most likely just the new resolution conforming to the consumer UHD standard 16x9 instead of the theatrical DCI 4K standard of 17x9. Sony was also forced out of the commercial theater projection market for similar reasons of their SXRD projectors failing prematurely and service becoming an issue for exhibitors. So in all honesty coming from a former Sony SXRD owner I’d tread lightly when it comes to spending what Sony is asking for these units. If Sony wants to build faith with customers they need to offer a 5 year warranty out of the gate.

[BijouMan]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Still only HDR10, no HDR10+ or Dolby Vision HDR from Sony 4K projectors. Hopefully in years to come Sony might offer all the HDR formats from one projector.

To have dynamic HDR would require a light meter or professional calibration as unlike a display panel, a projector has to take into account the screen it is projecting onto.

[Socko]

Can't afford these... yet.
My Epson is 8 years old now. Still working fine, but I'm dying to see some 4k material in my HT

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by BijouMan

To have dynamic HDR would require a light meter or professional calibration as unlike a display panel, a projector has to take into account the screen it is projecting onto.

You would ideally want it cal'd for SDR as well. But for FP, I think true frame-by-frame DTM is the best answer to cover all of the bases. Maybe one day Dolby Vision will release a spec for consumer FP.

[BijouMan]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Still only HDR10, no HDR10+ or Dolby Vision HDR from Sony 4K projectors. Hopefully in years to come Sony might offer all the HDR formats from one projector.

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

You would ideally want it cal'd for SDR as well. But for FP, I think true frame-by-frame DTM is the best answer to cover all of the bases. Maybe one day Dolby Vision will release a spec for consumer FP.

A Dolby Vision projector has been released but it is an ultra-short-throw model from a Chinese manufacturer.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by BijouMan

A Dolby Vision projector has been released but it is an ultra-short-throw model from a Chinese manufacturer.

Yup. Hence why I said FP. I bet it happens at some point - this industry always needs to sell something else.

[andreasy969]

The annoying thing with still no DV with the "proper" projectors is that one simply NEEDS the DV to fix the borked HDR10 layers of many FEL DV discs. And I don't get why they still don't offer at least a solution to play/decode the FEL DV without DV's display adjustments (i.e. 12 bit FEL DV HDR12 mode if you want). It's really ridiculous.

I for one refuse to buy a projector without DV for this very reason and will keep running my SDR projector until there is a DV projector (other than said Chinese model, which I don't want for other reasons). And I actually hope it doesn't die before the companies eventually did their homework...

[unberechenbar]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

The annoying thing with still no DV with the "proper" projectors is that one simply NEEDS the DV to fix the borked HDR10 layers of many FEL DV discs. And I don't get why they still don't offer at least a solution to play/decode the FEL DV without DV's display adjustments (i.e. 12 bit FEL DV HDR12 mode if you want). It's really ridiculous.

I for one refuse to buy a projector without DV for this very reason and will keep running my SDR projector until there is a DV projector (other than said Chinese model, which I don't want for other reasons). And I actually hope it doesn't die before the companies eventually did their homework...

Aren't there devices you can hook up to your projector that can convert HDR10 to Dolby Vision?

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by unberechenbar

Aren't there devices you can hook up to your projector that can convert HDR10 to Dolby Vision?

I don't want to convert HDR10 to DV. I want to playback FEL DV discs in fully restored 12 bit DV to a projector. Instead of having to playback the often borked HDR10 base layer. Which I currently would have to except for said Chinese model.

(whether there are players that would do that despite the display not being DV, I still don't know, because I didn't get an answer re. the Oppo once, which I wouldn't want to buy anyway though)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

I don't want to convert HDR10 to DV. I want to playback FEL DV discs in fully restored 12 bit DV to a projector. Instead of having to playback the often borked HDR10 base layer. Which I currently would have to except for said Chinese model.

(whether there are players that would do that despite the display not being DV, I still don't know, because I didn't get an answer re. the Oppo once, which I wouldn't want to buy anyway though)

Not players as such, but there are HDMI spoofers that trick the player into outputting player-led DV which is essentially HDR12. That's what people are using to get fully rebuilt DV playback thru their projektors.

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Not players as such, but there are HDMI spoofers that trick the player into outputting player-led DV which is essentially HDR12. That's what people are using to get fully rebuilt DV playback thru their projektors.

Thanks for the hint and I wasn't aware of this "new" (two years old by now) method yet, since I stopped following. Just read it up, it's understood and is actually even better than what I was asking for, since it even gives you DTM via the DV of the player, which is doing all the hard work.

And it is actually also just another sadness that the actual projectors don't give you this, but one has to buy a another product...

But it's good to know that there at least are DV options for projectors already now even though it requires certain players and additional hardware.