Best Buy true story...(good read)

[BTBuck1]

So today I'm at work (Best Buy) i'm standing at my answer center pretending to look up numbers or inventory screens (in reality i'm trolling the boards, lol) and I can hear a conversation going on over my right shoulder it went something like this....

Customer- So, My tv is 1080p, my HDDVD player only outputs 1080i so how do i get 1080p? is there a differance? Is it noticeable? etc. etc. etc.

Then I hear my coworker start backpeddling not knowing how to answer:

Employee- Uhh...let me ask Brian "He might know the answer to this question better"

I then spun around and introduced myself, began asking the customer what equipment he had (DLP 60" 1080p & Tosh HD-A1) I explained to him how the source material is encoded at 1080p and that his TV is 1080p and that although the player doesn't output 1080p that he wasn't losing any detail...after going over it with him 3 or four times he finally understood and was settled in.

This is where things got bad...

He then asks how I know so much about the HD-A1 and such, I explained that I owned the player and we talked a little bit about firmware etc and I reccomended he upgrade (he said his disc was in the mail on its way)

He then asks me, as if looking for re-assurance on HDDVD "so whats the scoop on Blu Ray?" I go into the benefits of the Blu Disc format, only really touching on Studio support from Everyone but Universal and I could see the gears turning in his head and before you knew it the obvious question came out of his mouth "so what do you think is better?" I said quite honestly I think right now they are pretty much tied...theres some better software on HDDVD but it did have a near 3 month headstart to retail and Blu Disc is gaining fast and has 90% studio support and all the major CE companies backing it. I explained that I enjoyed both technologies. He then asked..."who I thought would win" I turned and said...based on what I told you, what do you think? He said..."it doesn't look good for HDDVD"

When he answered me, he said it in a tone like I told him I ran over his dog with my car. He had this dissapointed look on his face like he was gonna cry almost and I had to reassure him that his purchase of the HD-A1 was gonna be okay!

what was even worse was that provenflipper was kinda standing around eves dropping and chimed in that his HDDVD player will provide him with hours of enjoyment and no matter what format wins, it wasn't as if his player & movies would evaporate.
He seemed disturbed with his purchase at that point and almost entirely ready to wipe his hands of the HDDVD format and jump aboard blu disc. He asked what to do and I reccomended enjoying what he had for a few more months (do netflix etc) and then come back after the holidays to re-evaluate things.

My whole point of this thread is to show you that the overwhelming support BD has over HDDVD is going to be a major hurdle for HDDVD to overcome. When the average consumer is faced with the choice of 50% or 90% support, and then the same kinda of percentages of players available to choose from, it's going to be a tough journey ahead for HDDVD. He seemed to rest his faith in the future of the format based on the percentages...and honestly, who wouldn't?

HDDVD has had a pretty good following so far with the informed AVS crowd adopting it and staying loyal...but mass adoption is going to require more than codecs (avg customers wont know or care about this) and more than Toshiba backing it's cause & more than Uni/WB & Paramount. And a heck of alot more than the internet blogs wild with HDDVD fanboism!

Giving up Sony pictures, Buenavista, Lionsgate and Fox which combined make up for like what 10 or more studios? I don't think the avg consumer is going to do that if the information is available to them.

Anyways...this is my thoughts I thought it interesting to see his face go from happy about HDDVD (bought it based on the name i think) to (Damn is this item returnable?) in less than 3 minutes of chatting.

[hmurchison]

Brian he has to seek his own reconciliation. You gave him an honest assessment and one based on experience with both platforms. He got a lot of sage advice now it's his turn to do what he feels is best. Format wars suck and the consumers end up "casualties of war" and get Sean Penned

I'm just the type of wannabe gear slut that doesn't care but other folks don't have the same passion.

[Dave]

At least i know that if i get a Blu-Ray drive i wont make a mistake.
Geting a Toshiba player is like gambleing.

[ProvenFlipper]

Dude was funny... But I felt bad for him. He was genuinely confused as to what to do. I feel that he was thinking we were trying to get kim to keep his HD-DVD player as to avoid a return. I will not be surprised at all if I see him back in the store to return his player.

[Blue]

This is exactly what concerns me. Anyone on this forum can not be in for any suprise if or when one format disappears, so as far as I'm concerned if you want to buy one or the other (or both) go for it and ENJOY, as you all know what you are doing and the potential consiquences.

However how many people are going to be in for a nasty suprise once they discover what's going on.

I don't see the biggest problem is with the hardware as no matter what brand you buy of the first generation players you will be replacing it in a few years. The expense is going to be in the media. Maybe studios that supplied the loosing format should be prepared to swap the title at cost for the winning format - ain't going to happen though. "Buyer Be Ware" I think is the caviet.

The prospect of dual format players I think is slim and unless there is BIG catalog of the loosing format's titles out there I can't see it ever happening. So that's not going to be a solution. Who is going to pay dual royalties for a few titles? Yeah I know most on this forum, alas it will take many more 10's of thousands more.

[hmurchison]

Consumers can take a passive role in this battle or agressive. When I have both players I'll be sending Universal emails asking them to support Blu-Ray and sending the BD studios the same message. Let the consumers decide the nextgen format.

[phranctoast]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Consumers can take a passive role in this battle or agressive. When I have both players I'll be sending Universal emails asking them to support Blu-Ray and sending the BD studios the same message. Let the consumers decide the nextgen format.

I understand what your saying, but if universal would support bluray we wouldnt have a format war at all. Letting people choose only muddies the water for people that arent all that tech savy. they want to buy something they know will be around for a bit (just the the guy brian was talking to).

I like your approach for some things (basic competition). However I think a format war is different then normal competition.

The only positive thing about the war so far as i made BRA get their shit together fast when they were being compared to hddvd right from the onset. Maybe without hddvd existence we would still be dealing with sub par bd's.

Even with that above point I think its still best to avoid a format war.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by phranctoast

I understand what your saying, but if universal would support bluray we wouldnt have a format war at all. Letting people choose only muddies the water for people that arent all that tech savy. they want to buy something they know will be around for a bit (just the the guy brian was talking to).

I like your approach for some things (basic competition). However I think a format war is different then normal competition.

The only positive thing about the war so far as i made BRA get their shit together fast when they were being compared to hddvd right from the onset. Maybe without hddvd existence we would still be dealing with sub par bd's.

Even with that above point I think its still best to avoid a format war.

The same could be said for if Columbia/Fox/LG/MG supported both formats. We're not even getting into the muck that is the small independent studios which have wondeful content to offer as well.

Consumers may not be tech savvy but that's what keeps companies like Best Buy and Compusa alive. If this stuff was easy then there would be little reason to have retail stores. Consumers are well versed in format wars.

Philips Cassete vs Elcasette
Minidisc vs DCC
DVD vs divx
Beta vs VHS

In the end "there can be only one" <insert Highlander theme here> but I feel most comfortable when the consumer decides. SACD and DVD-A failed because the studios thought they could dictate what consumers wanted and what they'd pay for. I don't want HD DVD and Blu-Ray to fall down that same rabbit hole.

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by phranctoast

I understand what your saying, but if universal would support bluray we wouldnt have a format war at all. Letting people choose only muddies the water for people that arent all that tech savy. they want to buy something they know will be around for a bit (just the the guy brian was talking to).

I like your approach for some things (basic competition). However I think a format war is different then normal competition.

The only positive thing about the war so far as i made BRA get their shit together fast when they were being compared to hddvd right from the onset. Maybe without hddvd existence we would still be dealing with sub par bd's.

Even with that above point I think its still best to avoid a format war.

i'm kinda pissed I had to spend $400 on a player and buy discs i can only use on this player now (HD-A1)

I plan to buy a BDP-s1 & ps3 and have already purchased 20+ BD's
If universal would have supported BD i'd have no reason to own HDDVD.
But since I did buy and HDDVD player i'll buy any Universal titles I want and any HDDVD's that serve as an advantage over BD such as Dolby TruHD tracks on some of the WB titles that dont show up on the Blu Disc version. Aside from that and possibly a better PQ review (which hasn't happened yet) I'll buy the Blu Disc version.

[phranctoast]

Dont you fear that consumers being confused may just forgo the format war and stick with dvd since there is no clear winner.

Thats what MS is hoping, and the real reason they are pushing hddvd. If They just confuse the situation a little bit, and people hold off it helps them for when they push their competetive service against iTV (apple) and amazon in the next couple of years.

[phranctoast]

btw. im talking out of my ass. I dont know if MS is pushing anything. They are just a big supported of no media for the next gen and downloads. It seems like their next logial step. And Im sure it kills them to lose any more ground to Apple.

[BTBuck1]

People enjoy collecting movies...it's a hobby, you take that away with digital distribution and IMO takes the fun out of it. hopefully this is the general consensus and keeps discs on the shelfs.

[theknub]

brian... i agree. for as much downloading as i engage, i still burn it off and share. where will the fun be when you have to download the hi-def movie (a few hrs in the making for sure... imagine if u only have dial up?) then your h.d. crashes and you have to buy or just download again. truly a pain in the ass.

plus, there is a sense of instant gratification to buy it and then take it home and watch it.

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by theknub

brian... i agree. for as much downloading as i engage, i still burn it off and share. where will the fun be when you have to download the hi-def movie (a few hrs in the making for sure... imagine if u only have dial up?) then your h.d. crashes and you have to buy or just download again. truly a pain in the ass.

plus, there is a sense of instant gratification to buy it and then take it home and watch it.

I enjoy having the cool case, packaging etc.
Plus going to the store, finding it...and taking it home.. it's like an easter egg hunt. sometimes the journey to getting somewhere is as good if not better than the destination.

[zombie]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

People enjoy collecting movies...it's a hobby, you take that away with digital distribution and IMO takes the fun out of it. hopefully this is the general consensus and keeps discs on the shelfs.

Agreed. It may be that Blu-ray and HD DVD are the last big physical formats for video. That said, I know of many who prefer to own something than can hold in their hands rather than just download it. There's a sense that you actually have something to show for your money. Those who like downloading can keep it... I instead will buy BDs/HD DVDs/CDs for many years. Their quality is unmatched by downloading anyway.

[zombie]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

I enjoy having the cool case, packaging etc.
Plus going to the store, finding it...and taking it home.. it's like an easter egg hunt. sometimes the journey to getting somewhere is as good if not better than the destination.

Gotta agree. Although I do most of my ordering online these days I do like the challenge of finding a particular disc I want and having to hunt it down now and then. My latest challenge is trying to find Aeon Flux on HD DVD for $20 or less.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by phranctoast

btw. im talking out of my ass. I dont know if MS is pushing anything. They are just a big supported of no media for the next gen and downloads. It seems like their next logial step. And Im sure it kills them to lose any more ground to Apple.

I think you're closer to the truth than you know. I indeed believe that MS went with the format that is most open to supporting content on computers. Both formats will offer managed copy but I think MS and Intel were a little spooked by the fervor of the BDA in locking down the content beyond simply AACS. Both want to push their respective technologies which are Media Centre PC and Viiv hardware (Intel)

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by nyg

Gotta agree. Although I do most of my ordering online these days I do like the challenge of finding a particular disc I want and having to hunt it down now and then. My latest challenge is trying to find Aeon Flux on HD DVD for $20 or less.

too bad you don't live by me...i could make that hunt a bit easier.
Price-match whoop whoop!

[Psiweaver]

I think that consumer isn't informed enough to decide IMO it should be retailers deciding the format war based off of number of service calls and how much time is required and handling customer isssues. Whoever makes the easier to use and less buggy format should win. THe customer won't know the tech differences between blu-ray and hd dvd and really won't care. all they want is a great hi-def image from a player that is easy to use and has really good studio support. This IMO is why blu-ray will win because the consumer will get those easy to use and easily controlled players.

[PeterTHX]

I indeed believe that MS went with the format that is most open to supporting content on computers. Both formats will offer managed copy but I think MS and Intel were a little spooked by the fervor of the BDA in locking down the content beyond simply AACS.

Well not really. HD DVD supported iHD, which is Intel's baby. Is it a coincidence that the HD DVD players being modded laptops have Intel CPUs? Every HD DVD player made is money in Intel's pocket.
HD DVD also allowed MS leverage, since they were a huge fish in a tiny pool, and they could give Sony a black eye (videogame wars). Plus, as of this time, just about every title uses their VC-1 codec. If not for Microsoft, Toshiba probably would have folded and joined the BDA.