"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

- many who post -here-, in this thread, are obvious not those of which I speak, given the (mostly) positive, open and respectful discourse that occurs here. It should be clear to anyone who is open and honest about their own path to fandom, and who upon serious reflection may well realize that some of their hyperbole was perhaps out of line at times.

Prior to the launch of the HDM formats, I didn't care who won, I simply wanted one to win, and for it to be over... though I leaned Blu-ray. When HD DVD did better than Blu-ray at first, I went HD DVD. A few months later, I realized that Blu-ray was to be the victor. For a long period after that, I still didn't care who won (though I preferred Blu-ray), I just wanted it to be over. It probably wasn't until the Paramount "payoff" that I really cared which one won.

My time as both a HD DVD supporter, a (neutral) Blu-ray supporter, and just a Blu-ray supporter, I had the ability to see things from "both sides of the aisle" (if you'll forgive the term).

Of the "major players" (some only in their own mind), I saw more honesty, and better behavior from the Blu-ray side. Sure, some of the "fanboys" might have had their fun with "HD DUD" and the like, but you're going to see that in pretty much everything.

Originally Posted by sharkshark

if I'm being repetitive, it's for lack of being able to write well... Additionally, the problem always is that anybody that I'd actually want to encourage to be open minded would immediately see my posts as poision, wonder how I stormed uninvited into this part of the interwebs, "coming into this thread" (as a couple posts above) and dumping my crap for my own agenda. It's not easy to communicate tranquility without on the one hand being derided as "sunshine and roses", and often for good reason. I ain't talking Kumbaya, quite the opposite - I see bias and agenda driven discussion in everything, the key to me is to remain consistant, respectful and open to debate. The irony that I'm not free to debate the finer points of idiocy on both sides isn't lost on me, but hopefully, as I said, the larger point can be made without a bullet list of excesses, as this would not only be tiresome, it'd be highly counter productive.

You have to understand, when we have multiple people telling someone something, bringing up specific instances, and being told WE'RE "fanboys", it reminds us of the "format war". The majority of the people I see on this Insider's Forum are names I've known since the "Format War". We all are aware of the behavior, experiences, and "persecution" we went through, and trying to explain it to someone who keeps telling US we saw it through "biased" eyes can get irritating. Not excusing anything mind you, just simply saying that I can understand.

~Alan

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

At another event, I had the weird pleasure of letting a Tosh employee know after a long presentation that, in fact 50gb were real, not fiction, and launching that very week (Sandler movie, no? What the hell was the name of that awful POS?)

"Click". I got it on Blu-ray earlier this year.

~Alan

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

I guess that these could clearly be seen as malicious. However, I bet even the Monster 'scam' is almost entirely due to ignorance and/or idiocy, not evil. It's bad, naturally, to lie when you know you're lieing. But it's almost worse, I think, to claim something to be true before you've actually put in any work to decide for yourself based on actual experience and analsysic of competing claims.

I'm not talking about shills... like the above mentioned experience. I'm talking about people like Amir, rdjam, Kosty, Lee Stewart, etc...

~Alan

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Alan Gordon

I'm not talking about shills... like the above mentioned experience. I'm talking about people like Amir, rdjam, Kosty, Lee Stewart, etc...

~Alan

I'm done, I swear!

However, while I found nothing more irritating and pathetic then "If my side loses I'll forgo the other side" and shrill, iritating posts like that, I personally find a difference on your list, dividing those "citizens" that volunteered to become champions of a format to the point of blind zealotry, and one guy that worked for a company that supported it and spent a wee bit too much time haggling with nasty facts.

What can I say, vitriol aside, I kinda liked Amir's posts in, weirdly, the same way I like Penton's... But then again, I take this thing far less seriously than some... I care almost as much about 2 wheeled racing as I do about computer controlled smokers (actually, I care more about the latter), but it's all just a weird extension of my hobby, tangentially following the lives and foibles of some people who -actually- are in the trenches (for whatever side) in helping bring shiny discs to my home.

Oh, man... I'm gonna pay for that comment...

Anyhoo, we are agreed: Pawns that think they are kings are indeed quite pathetic. For the record, I'm not slagging directly those you named, as I spent little time worrying about their specific posts, I'm simply taking well your point. I think we share the belief that in the end it's all about the films, and I for one am quite pleased that I no longer give a flying crap which studio is releasing one film over another...

ps. I can't go on enough about the Archives... I've got lots of time to type while Neil sings in amazing clarity it seems

It's yet another of those "if the format dies tomorrow" titles, I dont' care cuz I've got this for posterity, and, frankly, will always have a BD player capable of playing it for years to come...

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

However, while I found nothing more irritating and pathetic then "If my side loses I'll forgo the other side" and shrill, iritating posts like that, I personally find a difference on your list, dividing those "citizens" that volunteered to become champions of a format to the point of blind zealotry, and one guy that worked for a company that supported it and spent a wee bit too much time haggling with nasty facts.

I'll let someone else tackle the above...

Originally Posted by sharkshark

What can I say, vitriol aside, I kinda liked Amir's posts in, weirdly, the same way I like Penton's... But then again, I take this thing far less seriously than some...

As we've previously said, Amir (I can't say I haven't enjoyed a few of his posts, where they were so absurd I wondered if the man had lost his mind) was CONSTANTLY telling lies, egging things on, and on many occasions, showing disrespect for "Insiders".

It has little to do with taking things "seriously", but rather being disgusted by such behavior.

~Alan

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Alan Gordon

It has little to do with taking things "seriously", but rather being disgusted by such behavior.

~Alan

...absolutely fair enough, your point is well made.

[Bobby Henderson]

Originally Posted by merrick97

the funny thing is that beta actually developed a nice little market for itself and ended up outlasting VHS.

For those who may not know, that little market was the professional broadcast industry. S-VHS made inroads, but never unseated Beta as the most popular choice for professional analog video recording formats in the 1980s and 1990s.

New BetacamSP tape decks were being manufactured up until just a few years ago. You can still buy new blank Beta tapes from a number of sources, such as B&H Photo Video & Pro Audio in NYC. A lot of small market TV stations still have Beta-based video cameras and tape machines. Why throw out that stuff if it still works? Considering the way some small market TV stations nearly function as museums of old broadcast technology I wouldn't be surprised if more than a few stations were trying to get a few more miles out of 3/4" U-matic.

Eventually every TV station will have to toss out any remnants of analog-based gear. The switch to all digital broadcasting doesn't force the issue since most local TV stations (especially small market stations) are producing their news programs and commercials in 4:3 SD formats. Over the next few years those stations will be forced to go 16:9/HD because they eventually won't be able to buy professional video production gear limited to 4:3 SD operation.

[HeavyHitter]

My first experience with home video was with Beta. I was around 6 or 7 years old (this was late 70's) at my neighbor's house and I remember thinking how cool it was they had these movies in these little boxes you could watch on your TV. Seemed like amazing stuff. I still remember that Grease cover.

[Doctorossi]

This 'Beta found a niche and survived' argument comes out fairly often and I always have to take a little umbrage with it because the professional/commercial Betacam formats, while based upon an identical media form-factor, are really not the same beast as consumer Betamax.

[Anthony P]

So they decided being the content gatekeeper is a much better way to do things,

which brings up #3 and #4

3) becomes a show case for their tech during the war (look how good VC-1 looks, look how well the menu system works, look at the key techs we added to AACS…. We know AV you can trust us with every aspect of the content)
4) and if the war would have been a bit more even it could have led to a SACD/DVD-A/DD scenario, where people stayed away and it left the door open for a third alternative for the next format (i.e. MS DL solution)

One thing I would like to see done in the interim: Digital copies are great, but the use-once disc is environmentally unsound, and annoying for the consumer because you can't re-access the content. Surely the ability to pay apple a quarter or whatever they're charging the studios as an authorization fee to re-rip the disc (only works for material already registered to your account) can't be that hard to do.

and that is the benefit of MC,
1) it is none proprietary, if itunes gets accepted from AACS, if PS3/PSP gets accepted from AACS, if windows media server gets accepted from AACS …then that one digital copy on the disk can work with any of them.
2) The MC is a DC on a BD disk, it could use the original movie or be on a second BD with the extras
3) Unlike DC, MC is not necessarily limited to one key, so maybe they will charge a fee but you might be able to reuse the disk

[jr-porter]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

A lot of small market TV stations still have Beta-based video cameras and tape machines. Why throw out that stuff if it still works? Considering the way some small market TV stations nearly function as museums of old broadcast technology I wouldn't be surprised if more than a few stations were trying to get a few more miles out of 3/4" U-matic.

Eventually every TV station will have to toss out any remnants of analog-based gear. The switch to all digital broadcasting doesn't force the issue since most local TV stations (especially small market stations) are producing their news programs and commercials in 4:3 SD formats. Over the next few years those stations will be forced to go 16:9/HD because they eventually won't be able to buy professional video production gear limited to 4:3 SD operation.

And not just small markets either. The large market station I work at still uses BetacamSP for news. While our studio, a tower cam, and control room are all high-def, news field shooting is done in 16x9 SD.

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

My first experience with home video was with Beta. I was around 6 or 7 years old (this was late 70's) at my neighbor's house and I remember thinking how cool it was they had these movies in these little boxes you could watch on your TV. Seemed like amazing stuff. I still remember that Grease cover.

Aw, you young-uns. You didn't know real joy. My first exposure was a one-inch open reel B&W Ampex deck on which you hand to hand-thread the tape around the helical heads, then close the "gates". This was around age 11 in junior high. Ah, those were the days.

[Jeff Kleist]

1) it is none proprietary, if itunes gets accepted from AACS, if PS3/PSP gets accepted from AACS, if windows media server gets accepted from AACS …then that one digital copy on the disk can work with any of them.

I don't think it has anything to do with "being accepted" as much as Steve Jobs deciding to allow it.

[Steven_qt]

Penton-Man, would you send my thanks to whoever approved the adhesive stickers on the Ghostbusters BD slipcover? It came right off. No muss, no fuss. (I had a hell of a time trying to remove the stickers on the Men In Black BD and the Nick & Nora BD's.)

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Alan Gordon

As we've previously said, Amir (I can't say I haven't enjoyed a few of his posts, where they were so absurd I wondered if the man had lost his mind) was CONSTANTLY telling lies, egging things on, and on many occasions, showing disrespect for "Insiders".

It has little to do with taking things "seriously", but rather being disgusted by such behavior.

~Alan

And who can forget the seed planted by Amir about “Project Hydra”.
It was simply a BDA presentation recommending to all attendees to become more involved in addressing the concerns of consumers, including those posted on internet forums.

Instead........on AVS with promotion by Amir, it got spun from a presentation into a viral marketing campaign known as “Project Hydra” in which shills disclosing no affiliation or upfront support for Blu-ray were going around the internet posting pro-Blu-ray information.

Like I said, the nonsense spouted by the A-man knew no limits.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Steven_qt

Penton-Man, would you send my thanks to whoever approved the adhesive stickers on the Ghostbusters BD slipcover? It came right off. No muss, no fuss. (I had a hell of a time trying to remove the stickers on the Men In Black BD and the Nick & Nora BD's.)

Thank you for noticing and mentioning, as compliments are always welcomed.
And how did you like the Blu-ray of Ghostbusters itself ?

Hopefully, as much as these folks did ……….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8IGfkSeRv4

And, like I posted a week or so back, the Blu-ray edition was based on a new HD master, not the master used for the 2005 DVD version, so no expense was spared.

[MerrickG]

Penton,

Im sure this has been answered but what was the reason that Sony decided to hold off on releasing Ghostbusters 2 as well. I may be in the minority but I actually enjoyed the 2nd one more.

[J6P]

Originally Posted by cjamescook

Aw, you young-uns. You didn't know real joy. My first exposure was a one-inch open reel B&W Ampex deck on which you hand to hand-thread the tape around the helical heads, then close the "gates". This was around age 11 in junior high. Ah, those were the days.

Ha! Well, I have a few years on HeavyHitter, but I certainly remember that first Betamax fondly. We had one of the very earliest Sony machines, with the gigantic blocky buttons, the rotary channel dials (VHF, UHF), and a wired remote. We did rent and buy movies, but the big revelation was the concept of time-shifting. Being able to watch Saturday Night Live over a bowl of cereal on a Sunday morning was tantamount to sorcery, and the best thing ever. I'm not even kidding.

To get us back on topic (), I'm also old enough to remember when GIANTS fought it out on two wheels: Lawson, Roberts, Mamola, Sheene. But my idol was Freddie Spencer. In college I was all about GP500, Honda and "Fast Freddie". If going without food would have been enough to buy his replica helmet I probably would have, but even that wouldn't have been enough back then.

More racing movies on Blu (even more back on topic)! Somebody mentioned Le Mans above, which is a must-have. Ditto John Frankenheimer's Grand Prix, which last I heard was on the schedule, and is certainly one of my most eagerly awaited HD DVD exclusives. Bring it on, please. The Saul Bass title sequence alone makes this a day one purchase.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by J6P

Ha! Well, I have a few years on HeavyHitter, but I certainly remember that first Betamax fondly. We had one of the very earliest Sony machines, with the gigantic blocky buttons, the rotary channel dials (VHF, UHF), and a wired remote. We did rent and buy movies, but the big revelation was the concept of time-shifting. Being able to watch Saturday Night Live over a bowl of cereal on a Sunday morning was tantamount to sorcery, and the best thing ever. I'm not even kidding.

To get us back on topic (), I'm also old enough to remember when GIANTS fought it out on two wheels: Lawson, Roberts, Mamola, Sheene. But my idol was Freddie Spencer. In college I was all about GP500, Honda and "Fast Freddie". If going without food would have been enough to buy his replica helmet I probably would have, but even that wouldn't have been enough back then.

More racing movies on Blu (even more back on topic)! Somebody mentioned Le Mans above, which is a must-have. Ditto John Frankenheimer's Grand Prix, which last I heard was on the schedule, and is certainly one of my most eagerly awaited HD DVD exclusives. Bring it on, please. The Saul Bass title sequence alone makes this a day one purchase.

You cant list those and not mention Rainey and Schwantz. Its disrespectful.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by J6P

We had one of the very earliest Sony machines, with the gigantic blocky buttons, the rotary channel dials (VHF, UHF), and a wired remote.

Hey, I still had one of those up until about two years ago!



Did I just admit that?

Originally Posted by J6P

The Saul Bass title sequence alone makes this a day one purchase.

Wow, J6P. The mullet on your avatar notwithstanding, I think you're my kinda cat!