8K discussion thread

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

I'd take an 8K display to show the highest resolution possible,....

afaik Das Boot - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5830254/?ref_=ttep_ep_tt season 3 is the first TV series to be mastered to 8K HDR.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

For your netflixes and apples it’s relatively easy, it’s their own content and their own delivery systems which they can update any time they choose to do so (for new 8K hardware I mean, not jury-rigging it to existing tech). 8K on digital will absolutely be a thing as more new streaming productions start to finish out to that rez, it’s not the notion of the existence of 8K content itself that I’ve been railing against. It’s there being some kind of unified industry-wide physical format to deliver it that seems far-fetched at this point in time.

before I start, as a side note in my previous post I put the * beside netflix and Apple but then forgot to add the note that they were just being used as examples for streaming and purchases.

To your point I don't agree with you at all. If it was that easy (like with UHD BD and Kaleidescape) they would be offering much higher quality content. In theory yes nothing stops them from 100GB files for 4k and higher quality 8k but there is a huge cost for that both in storage on the servers and BW for the content to reach the consumer. And since they are going after cheap people the money is not there for it to make sense IMHO.

Some people here like to misinterpret charts and read a lot of BS in them but then they miss the reality that Disney keeps on telling us their streaming is costing them, millions, that Netflix is cracking down on PW sharing and thinking of adding advertisements, Walmart found some sucker to take Vudu off their hands because they were tired of losing money on it.....

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by mkozlows

So given that we're in a world in which real, easily-apparent visible/audible changes are possible but not happening due to cost... what conceivable non-marketing reason is there to add in 8K resolution, which adds no actual normally-apparent quality improvement?

simple I know we disagree on potential benefits of 8k but if we assume there is no benefit you gave the answer
https://help.netflix.com/en/node/24926

Netflix Basic=9.99 SD
Netflix Standard=16.49 HD
Netflix Premium=19.99 UHD

you can't have Netflix super premium =29.99 UHD but less crappy.
and Netflix Premium=19.99 UHD but less crappy just raises their costs while not raising the revenue (i.er bigger hole)

there is a reason it is never just one thing be it physical or virtual media.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

before I start, as a side note in my previous post I put the * beside netflix and Apple but then forgot to add the note that they were just being used as examples for streaming and purchases.

To your point I don't agree with you at all. If it was that easy (like with UHD BD and Kaleidescape) they would be offering much higher quality content. In theory yes nothing stops them from 100GB files for 4k and higher quality 8k but there is a huge cost for that both in storage on the servers and BW for the content to reach the consumer. And since they are going after cheap people the money is not there for it to make sense IMHO.

Some people here like to misinterpret charts and read a lot of BS in them but then they miss the reality that Disney keeps on telling us their streaming is costing them, millions, that Netflix is cracking down on PW sharing and thinking of adding advertisements, Walmart found some sucker to take Vudu off their hands because they were tired of losing money on it.....

Where is it being said or implied that they would need 100GB files for this stuff? With the next next next next next gen codecs then they can squeeze ever more out of the bandwidth that they have, the only real obstacle is putting that 8K + new codec decoding into devices but that's only ever a generation of hardware away. Sure, it could be said that if it were that easy then why haven't they done it already but we've expounded upon all those reasons, content-wise: there's very little benefit to 8K apart from those minor increments discussed previously, plus the fact that there's so little content anyway. But as 8K finishing starts to take hold for streaming - who've led the way for 4K finishing, putting theatrical movies to shame - and more 8K sets penetrate the market then 8K streaming is an inevitability. I'm not saying it'll be any good, but it will happen.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

afaik Das Boot - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5830254/?ref_=ttep_ep_tt season 3 is the first TV series to be mastered to 8K HDR.

Good read Penton
■ https://www.kftv.com/news/2021/07/20...-skys-das-boot
▪︎ https://www.kftv.com/news/2021/07/19...ras-and-lenses
__________

* Extra:

"Das Boot will, unless something happens in the meantime, be the first TV series to be produced from start to finish and made available in 8K resolution, but it is far from the first title to be shot on 8K cameras.

Netflix has been using the RED Helium 8K camera to shoot series like Lost in Space (season 2), The Politician, and Our Planet, while Amazon has been exploring 8K with The Tick. For an 8K vs. 4K study, Pixar rendered scenes from Brave and A Bug's Life in 8K, and Warner has rescanned Dunkirk in 8K from the 70mm film. FlatpanelsHD has previously seen 8K clips from Dunkirk based on the rescanned material but it did not look particularly "8K" due to its low 24fps frame rate."

Source: https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1603872623

[RalphoR]

Originally Posted by gkolb

Our household (me) spent $3000+ in 2005 on a Sony 1080i tv, and $5000+ on a 2016 Sony 65 Z9D 4K backlight master drive tv (still going strong). For the right tv, $2K would only take a ten second decision. There are OLEDS by LG that can be had for under $2K. But that tv isn’t quite right for family viewing (burn-in being the concern with family members).

Bought an A80J for the wife earlier this year but I'm still rockin' my 65 Z9D, too. I am looking at the Z9K and the A95K as my primary but even if I bite the bullet that Z9D isn't going anywhere (except to another room). It's still my all time favorite TV.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Where is it being said or implied that they would need 100GB files for this stuff?

no where. you missed my point. I was just pointing out that K offers 100GB files that are as good as UHD BDs because both BW and in size they are similar in sepcs. Every other virtual service does not, not because it can't be done in theory but because the reality is they can't afford to do it. (continued after yoyur next statementt)

With the next next next next next gen codecs then they can squeeze ever more out of the bandwidth that they have

your virtual service can't get rid of what is there easily adding 8k no matter how much someone believes in fairytales won't change the reality that it means a lot more data to store and a lot more BW to pass it to the consumer and with that a lot more cost for them on an on going basis. I guess eventualy the same way VHS aas dropped SD can be dropped, but that too is a hard thing to do and you are getting rid of small (lowest resolution and replacing it with big

the only real obstacle is putting that 8K + new codec decoding into devices but that's only ever a generation of hardware away. Sure, it could be said that if it were that easy then why haven't they done it already but we've expounded upon all those reasons, content-wise: there's very little benefit to 8K apart from those minor increments discussed previously, plus the fact that there's so little content anyway. But as 8K finishing starts to take hold for streaming - who've led the way for 4K finishing, putting theatrical movies to shame - and more 8K sets penetrate the market then 8K streaming is an inevitability. I'm not saying it'll be any good, but it will happen.

I agree with you it is too early for 8k what I am saying is if it is that easy why not offer better quality 4k,HD and SD?


You are missing that as arm chair tech talkers it is easy for us to exaggerate how easy things can be since we don't have to make it work in the real world with real world constrains.

Let me put it this way Someone else could just as easily point out that "you can spin a disk much faster " (truth is we already have many drives on the market that can go way beyond was needed for 8k movie disk) As for capacity you can add more layers i.e. https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=1484 or just make the disk a bit larger (adding about 1" to the radius will make a disk that holds roughly 4x the capacity or moving to UVC (easy enough to get these days) from Blue (much shorter wave length means you can go with smaller pits and fit many more in the same area. But none of these facts look at what it really mean to make any of those changes a reality for a new format.


You are doing the same thing here in B&W ( and just becauae the # are easy to get and we can discuss real numbers
according to Disney
https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/app...2-earnings.pdf

Direct-to-Consumer revenues for the quarter increased 23% to $4.9 billion and operating loss increased $0.6 billion to $0.9 billion. The increase in operating loss was due to higher losses at Disney+ and ESPN+ and lower operating income at Hulu.

yes 23% revenue increase looks good in a chart but do you think Disney is saying we only lost 1B let's increase our operational costs dramatically so we can lose 2B or 3B or 5B a quarter?

virtual media for the masses will always go with the crampiest people will accept for the price. And the masses are looking for cheaper prices not better quality.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I agree with you it is too early for 8k what I am saying is if it is that easy why not offer better quality 4k,HD and SD?

Better quality HD is on the way via ATSC 3.0: 1080P HDR.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

no where. you missed my point. I was just pointing out that K offers 100GB files that are as good as UHD BDs because both BW and in size they are similar in sepcs. Every other virtual service does not, not because it can't be done in theory but because the reality is they can't afford to do it. (continued after yoyur next statementt)



your virtual service can't get rid of what is there easily adding 8k no matter how much someone believes in fairytales won't change the reality that it means a lot more data to store and a lot more BW to pass it to the consumer and with that a lot more cost for them on an on going basis. I guess eventualy the same way VHS aas dropped SD can be dropped, but that too is a hard thing to do and you are getting rid of small (lowest resolution and replacing it with big



I agree with you it is too early for 8k what I am saying is if it is that easy why not offer better quality 4k,HD and SD?


You are missing that as arm chair tech talkers it is easy for us to exaggerate how easy things can be since we don't have to make it work in the real world with real world constrains.

Let me put it this way Someone else could just as easily point out that "you can spin a disk much faster " (truth is we already have many drives on the market that can go way beyond was needed for 8k movie disk) As for capacity you can add more layers i.e. https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=1484 or just make the disk a bit larger (adding about 1" to the radius will make a disk that holds roughly 4x the capacity or moving to UVC (easy enough to get these days) from Blue (much shorter wave length means you can go with smaller pits and fit many more in the same area. But none of these facts look at what it really mean to make any of those changes a reality for a new format.


You are doing the same thing here in B&W ( and just becauae the # are easy to get and we can discuss real numbers
according to Disney
https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/app...2-earnings.pdf


yes 23% revenue increase looks good in a chart but do you think Disney is saying we only lost 1B let's increase our operational costs dramatically so we can lose 2B or 3B or 5B a quarter?

virtual media for the masses will always go with the crampiest people will accept for the price. And the masses are looking for cheaper prices not better quality.

Good day Anthony,

If I may ask, you work in the tech visual industry?

Great weather weekend in Québec...Montréal. Happy time and celebrations.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

no where. you missed my point. I was just pointing out that K offers 100GB files that are as good as UHD BDs because both BW and in size they are similar in sepcs. Every other virtual service does not, not because it can't be done in theory but because the reality is they can't afford to do it. (continued after yoyur next statementt)



your virtual service can't get rid of what is there easily adding 8k no matter how much someone believes in fairytales won't change the reality that it means a lot more data to store and a lot more BW to pass it to the consumer and with that a lot more cost for them on an on going basis. I guess eventualy the same way VHS aas dropped SD can be dropped, but that too is a hard thing to do and you are getting rid of small (lowest resolution and replacing it with big



I agree with you it is too early for 8k what I am saying is if it is that easy why not offer better quality 4k,HD and SD?


You are missing that as arm chair tech talkers it is easy for us to exaggerate how easy things can be since we don't have to make it work in the real world with real world constrains.

Let me put it this way Someone else could just as easily point out that "you can spin a disk much faster " (truth is we already have many drives on the market that can go way beyond was needed for 8k movie disk) As for capacity you can add more layers i.e. https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=1484 or just make the disk a bit larger (adding about 1" to the radius will make a disk that holds roughly 4x the capacity or moving to UVC (easy enough to get these days) from Blue (much shorter wave length means you can go with smaller pits and fit many more in the same area. But none of these facts look at what it really mean to make any of those changes a reality for a new format.


You are doing the same thing here in B&W ( and just becauae the # are easy to get and we can discuss real numbers
according to Disney
https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/app...2-earnings.pdf


yes 23% revenue increase looks good in a chart but do you think Disney is saying we only lost 1B let's increase our operational costs dramatically so we can lose 2B or 3B or 5B a quarter?

virtual media for the masses will always go with the crampiest people will accept for the price. And the masses are looking for cheaper prices not better quality.

Okay, I really am confused now. Aren't you the guy who kept on insisting that 8K disc will surely come at some point, only for me to say that all those things you've just pointed out as taking much more time and money to make happen would take much more time and money to make happen? Literally did that here: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...0#post20069150 only for you to argue to the contrary back then, only now you're not and dishing out sass like "fairytales"? Really? It's like watching a dog chase its tail.

I mean, that's whataboutery anyway BECAUSE I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT A DISC HERE, digital infrastructure will be comparatively much easier to update to 8K than making a new disc-based 8K format. We've already got our first 8K-finished TV show, and they must've done that for a reason! (Yep, Sky in the UK will But you keep pulling away to this random thing and that random thing that pops into your head regarding this subject, no matter if it completely contradicts what you so vehemently argued just a few months before. Must be something in the water up north.

Look at it this way: the amount of data that the streamers are collectively hoarding is already absolutely gigantic, what's a few more bits added in? You're under this assumption that for 8K streaming to happen the entire ecosystem has to be scaled up x4 in terms of "BW" but that's simply not the case because lossy compression with even newer codecs doesn't scale up linearly from one format to the next (it's how we got 4K on disc with only double the disc size at the maximum, never mind 66GB discs). It will need some extra "BW" but compared to the amount of "BW" they're already using it won't take vastly more to get an 8K service going. At the source level then yes, an 8K 2 hour film will be 32TB of data vs 8TB for 4K and 2TB for 2K, but that's not stored online. They use archival solutions like LTO to store such assets offline - the final 4K/120/3D master for Gemini Man was a whopping 92TB for example, and they used 3.3 petabytes (!) of storage while making the movie - and only bring out those masters to strike new transfers from if need be. Everything else downstream from that is carried in a less data-intensive format like ProRes, even for streamers.

As for cost, the streamers are showing few signs of slowing down in terms of throwing money at content but even then, trialling an 8K system isn't going to turn a $1Bn loss into $5Bn, that's utterly preposterous. Of coursh they're all losing money, it's like a giant ponzi scheme where you just reshuffle debt relative to how many subscribers you have, but the advent of the lower cost options and other clampdowns doesn't mean a thing re: the quality of the end product. Most people who stream don't give a flying fook about quality and yet for some reason streaming companies have been routinely finishing stuff out to 4K, inclusive of VFX, for many years i.e. it's a literal requirement of Netflix, who did 6K finishes for House of Cards some seven years ago: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/mo...waters-779131/. Yes, SEVEN YEARS AGO. And all the while, stuff destined for wide theatrical release still gets routinely done at 2K to this day. You'd have thought that the streamers would've put a stop to all this lavishness years ago but nope, they're still persisting with it while the studio system stagnates at 2K. Hell, they're gonna need a new hook to get people to stay/come back to their streaming services and 8K is the next step. I'm not saying that it'll be changed wholesale overnight but the "BW" is already there, it's the hardware side of things that needs updating. Case in point, Das Boot S3 is streaming in 8K to Samsung 8K TVs via their streaming service, albeit only for ze Germans at this point I think?

[moreorless]

I think another arguement against 8K physical media isnt just a lack of market but rather a preference for streaming exclusivity. Thats already taking a significant bite out of potential 4K UHD disk releases I suspect and if you consider that most 8K content is likely to be newly made then it becomes even more likely.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by moreorless

I think another arguement against 8K physical media isnt just a lack of market but rather a preference for streaming exclusivity. Thats already taking a significant bite out of potential 4K UHD disk releases I suspect and if you consider that most 8K content is likely to be newly made then it becomes even more likely.

Or . . . take 4K DIs and upscale them to 8K. Just like they do today with HD DIs being upscaled to 4K.

All the 4K content Fox Sports is showing is all 1080P HDR upscaled to 4K UHD

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Good day Anthony,

If I may ask, you work in the tech visual industry?

No, just obsessed with AV (if it does not show). I have a bac in Computer science, Master in Mathematics, taught a bit at University, then got a job in IT at large multinational and my job was to look at cool new technologies and then deciding if we would adopt them (that was around 25 year ago). One of the projects was to look at room videoconferencing systems and that started this obsession (needing to make sure video quality is "good", found out about the HT world and forums like this because it is the same type of equipment you need for VC). Now I am just a small business owner.

Great weather weekend in Québec...Montréal. Happy time and celebrations.

a bit too hot for me but otherwise absolutely.

[LexInHD]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Better quality HD is on the way via ATSC 3.0: 1080P HDR.

Adding to that, most of the remaining 1080P HDTVs in the global marketplace are packing HDR-capable displays and support HLG/HDR10. The big problem is a lack of content, as HDR content is largely confined to 4K streaming from Netflix and Amazon (maybe some others too) and the providers refuse to offer that content with HDR, at 1080P. I can pull Amazon's UHD HDR content, whatever is on YouTube that has HDR, and whatever UHD-BDs I throw in the players, but I can't get much else on the HDR-HDTVs I have, because of the aforementioned resolution barrier. Even in South Korea and Japan, where 4K broadcasting and content creation is becoming the norm, actual adoption of 4K hasn't caught on beyond buying the TV's themselves and 4K streaming of what content should be available from their own native sources seems almost non-existent.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

No, just obsessed with AV (if it does not show). I have a bac in Computer science, Master in Mathematics, taught a bit at University, then got a job in IT at large multinational and my job was to look at cool new technologies and then deciding if we would adopt them (that was around 25 year ago). One of the projects was to look at room videoconferencing systems and that started this obsession (needing to make sure video quality is "good", found out about the HT world and forums like this because it is the same type of equipment you need for VC). Now I am just a small business owner.

a bit too hot for me but otherwise absolutely.

I sure enjoy reading your smart contributions.

* I'm with you; here on Vanvouver Island we hit 30°+ since Friday and it's too hot for my ow personal taste. Best to be in the shade of trees by the ocean's beaches or a swim in a cool lake by, or a river.

By the way, our smartphones can shoot in 8K, and it can only get improved from there.
And when it does we want an 8K display to view our own videos to show their best.
Anything less doesn't cut mustard, cheap whiskey.

[Anthony P]

[quote=Geoff D;20230607]Okay, I really am confused now. Aren't you the guy who kept on insisting that 8K disc will surely come at some point, only for me to say that all those things you've just pointed out as taking much more time and money to make happen would take much more time and money to make happen? Literally did that here: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...0#post20069150 only for you to argue to the contrary back then, only now you're not and dishing out sass like "fairytales"? Really? It's like watching a dog chase its tail.

[quote]


1) No I say what I mean and mean what I say. If I was sure it will come at some point I would not have said "I would love to see 8k physical media, and I think one day we will. "

2) I was replying to HDTV1080P who thinks it possible we get a new format in 2026. I was comparing it to BD and how if it where to follow the same path we would already be hearing info as some of the details get ironed out between all the parties involved as who's tech is included.

That being said, I don't know if you remember back at the end of 2010 we got terminator 2 and a handful of other films released on a (physical) DVD but with (data layer) HD saved as WMV they could only be played on a PC because normal DVD players at the time did not support HD or WMV. What is to stop someone from doing something similar today? use a replicator and 100GB UHD BD-roms that play back at 400Mbps (many PC drives can do that) on a PC. Now you might say hey that is between 30-45 minutes per disk.

do you remember D-theatre/D-VHS? again proprietary HD format (tape this time duplicated in the same factories that duplicated VHS) but here you had content and manufacturer going at it together. what is to stop a studio and manufacturer to do something proprietary again fast-fast that goes back to old tech like and you put the disks for a movie (or two) in the cartridge magazine and sit and watch and it changes it as needed


But my point wasn't "I am smart look at how many dumb ideas I can come with to say it is easy" but as long as we sit on on our chairs and type in a forum we can have plenty of such answers to make it seem easier then what it really is. That is why I started by saying "let me put it this way Someone else could just as easily point out that.... ". I don't think it is that easy and I am not looking for an ugly kludge, fakeK, I am looking for genuine image improvements (and that means starting from the best we have now.

I mean, that's whataboutery anyway BECAUSE I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT A DISC HERE, digital infrastructure will be comparatively much easier to update to 8K than making a new disc-based 8K format.

OK how about cylinder, or crystal or card.... I don't caret about he format.

We've already got our first 8K-finished TV show, and they must've done that for a reason! (Yep, Sky in the UK will But you keep pulling away to this random thing and that random thing that pops into your head regarding this subject, no matter if it completely contradicts what you so vehemently argued just a few months before. Must be something in the water up north.

I realy have no idea what you mean. Sony masterd some films in 4k and then used them to realase them on BD with "masterd in 4k" and then to release them on UHD. Do you think because the content you have above has an 8k master it can't be used to improve a UHD BD or if we have it one day a

Look at it this way: the amount of data that the streamers are collectively hoarding is already absolutely gigantic, what's a few more bits added in? You're under this assumption that for 8K streaming to happen the entire ecosystem has to be scaled up x4 in terms of "BW" but that's simply not the case because lossy compression with even newer codecs doesn't scale up linearly from one format to the next (it's how we got 4K on disc with only double the disc size at the maximum, never mind 66GB discs). It will need some extra "BW" but compared to the amount of "BW" they're already using it won't take vastly more to get an 8K service going. At the source level then yes, an 8K 2 hour film will be 32TB of data vs 8TB for 4K and 2TB for 2K, but that's not stored online. They use archival solutions like LTO to store such assets offline - the final 4K/120/3D master for Gemini Man was a whopping 92TB for example, and they used 3.3 petabytes (!) of storage while making the movie - and only bring out those masters to strike new transfers from if need be. Everything else downstream from that is carried in a less data-intensive format like ProRes, even for streamers.

No my friend

1) you have me confused with Lee.

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

That's a 400% increase. The newest codex only gives a 50% max improvement over the existing codex.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

that is true for uncompressed. But compression is not linear. 4x the pixels does not mean 4x the file size/BW needed. The smaller the pixels the more you can block without adding as much compression artifacts and the compression artifacts will be smaller

I pointed out 4x the resolution does not mean 4x the file size but

1) I would hope if they add 8k feeds they will take the opportunity to have higher quality and it won't just be to fool simpletons into saying I am watching 8k when iot looks worst then other 4k sources


2) even if we assume 3x (a bit optimistic but people that watch streaming are not looking for quality) and we assume 50% benefit from H266 (in my experience that is always way over stated) there still brings us to 50% more BW needed for someone watching 8k instead of 4k. I can't get how now it is huge but 50% more will just be a bit more.

As for cost, the streamers are showing few signs of slowing down in terms of throwing money at content but even then, trialling an 8K system isn't going to turn a $1Bn loss into $5Bn, that's utterly preposterous. Of coursh they're all losing money, it's like a giant ponzi scheme where you just reshuffle debt relative to how many subscribers you have, but the advent of the lower cost options and other clampdowns doesn't mean a thing re: the quality of the end product. Most people who stream don't give a flying fook about quality and yet for some reason streaming companies have been routinely finishing stuff out to 4K, inclusive of VFX, for many years i.e. it's a literal requirement of Netflix, who did 6K finishes for House of Cards some seven years ago: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/mo...waters-779131/. Yes, SEVEN YEARS AGO. And all the while, stuff destined for wide theatrical release still gets routinely done at 2K to this day. You'd have thought that the streamers would've put a stop to all this lavishness years ago but nope, they're still persisting with it while the studio system stagnates at 2K. Hell, they're gonna need a new hook to get people to stay/come back to their streaming services and 8K is the next step. I'm not saying that it'll be changed wholesale overnight but the "BW" is already there, it's the hardware side of things that needs updating. Case in point, Das Boot S3 is streaming in 8K to Samsung 8K TVs via their streaming service, albeit only for ze Germans at this point I think?

it is not about content so if you took it as me insulting your work I apologies. But that content can be used to be distribute on any physical or virtual media.

The discussion is about distribution having one 8k master copy off-line is relatively easy and not as big a deal but adding compressed 8k to the mix that is where it gets more difficult If you agree with what I said above we just added 150% to drive space needed (they can't get rid of 4k)and if a bunch of people are now watching 8k instead of HD that adds 50% to the BW needed to service them.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Great weather weekend in Québec...Montréal. Happy time and celebrations.

Bob, if you won’t heed as to what was previously said on the last page - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post20215751 , then maybe you’ll pay attention to a native born Québécois Eng., MEng. -
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...t#post14544289

Which ^ essentially is why 8K tv was shown not to be superior to 4K tv on the basis of resolution only – https://www.techhive.com/article/578...ifference.html
published - https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9136829
*peer reviewed editorial board of affiliated and unaffiliated members - https://www.smpte.org/publications/about_journal/boe

So, bottom line, until 8K tvs bring something more meaningful to the table other than only a marketing numbers increase in spatial resolution (4K->8K), I see an increase in the range of displayed colors with multi-primary color displays (6P venture out of Baylor) bringing much more value and until such multi-primary displays come to fruition, then consumers and developers best follow and evaluate ongoing refinements in dynamic range, be it HDR from for instance Dolby (which has also adopted HLG in one of its profiles),

or the relatively unknown stuff like EDR from Apple - https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2022/10113/

or even ‘Advanced’ Technicolor for HDR for the Next Gen TV initiative - https://www.tvtechnology.com/news/si...xtgen-tv-plans

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

words

But again, you seem to be looking at it from the perspective of the entire streaming industry needing to find 50% more overnight. That’s not what I’m getting at, as they will all do their own thing and can unilaterally decide whether or not to adopt 8K (Apple are also in the unique position of being a hardware provider as well as software so can take a more holistic approach).

Whatever 8K systems they were to bring online would only be used by a handful of people at this point so they can easily spare that bandwidth on a trial basis (just like for Samsung and Das Boot S3) and if it were to gain popularity then the usual advances in storage and processing power would scale up alongside it in due course.

On a separate note, I think the lack of content is just as big a reason as to why no major streamer has gone 8K as of yet. Samsung paid to have Das Boot finished in 8K hence its exclusivity to their platform but without such incentives then there’s not much impetus for it.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Bob, if you won’t heed as to what was previously said on the last page - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post20215751 , then maybe you’ll pay attention to a native born Québécois Eng., MEng. -
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...t#post14544289

Which ^ essentially is why 8K tv was shown not to be superior to 4K tv on the basis of resolution only – https://www.techhive.com/article/578...ifference.html
published - https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9136829
*peer reviewed editorial board of affiliated and unaffiliated members - https://www.smpte.org/publications/about_journal/boe

So, bottom line, until 8K tvs bring something more meaningful to the table other than only a marketing numbers increase in spatial resolution (4K->8K), I see an increase in the range of displayed colors with multi-primary color displays (6P venture out of Baylor) bringing much more value and until such multi-primary displays come to fruition, then consumers and developers best follow and evaluate ongoing refinements in dynamic range, be it HDR from for instance Dolby (which has also adopted HLG in one of its profiles),

or the relatively unknown stuff like EDR from Apple - https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2022/10113/

or even ‘Advanced’ Technicolor for HDR for the Next Gen TV initiative - https://www.tvtechnology.com/news/si...xtgen-tv-plans

I'm a student. I'm looking for the best teachers in the visual business.

[nick4Knight]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

On a separate note, I think the lack of content is just as big a reason as to why no major streamer has gone 8K as of yet. Samsung paid to have Das Boot finished in 8K hence its exclusivity to their platform but without such incentives then there’s not much impetus for it.

Right. Agreed. But the very fact that is true differentiates this from 4K and 4K format (as to realistic potential for viability). The industry itself was driving it with 4K DCP and projectors systems for cinema, a want to move to 4K mastering and CGI on the production side eventually.

The industry as a body has exactly peep to say about 8K viability by its own investment and trajectory. It's all driven by ONE company here and there, in disparate spaces that is trying to push the bleeding edge for market share.

And that pushing is unproven as yet. Years into it being talked about. Years into test balloons and trials. Years after TV manufacture tried to ram 8K down the consumer with only upscaling as a benefit. That largely failed, too.

In the sense there is more focus on the reward of better 4K display improvement than the best of the best advancements being 8K natively/exclusively.